Ashford 30 -2 months old door hinge smoke smell

[aaronk25]

That would make sense if it only did it on boards but it does it on straight oak too even after 5 loads straight. It does it on every type of wood regardless if it's loaded to the door or not. I have even loaded it 1/2 full with the oak at just the rear of the stove and it still stinks.

On a different not I think the main issue with burning board ends of pine as long as they didn't come from a salt water mill (corrosion) is first on re-loads they catch fire so fast that with a strong draft and the bypass open flames will get sucked way up into the chimney potentially over heating the chimney or if it's all creosoted up catch it on fire. 2nd pine in general has more sap so chimney cleaning is more frequent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kennyp2339]

Hmmm think of this, and it takes an open mind (plus I'm having a hard time putting this into words atm)... small failures in install. Max draft on these units running on high setting is .05, you say in your 1st post that you measured on low .05. So while the fire is smoldering on low the heat produced in the fire box is constantly getting sucked out of the fire box fooling the t-stat to opening up and allow more air to enter. This additional air is right at the balance of a smoldering fire and one that becomes oxygen rich and goes into flames. (not quite flames but to much smoke, just perhaps a hair below ignition point of smoke) this is probably over whelming the cat and the smoke is just sitting in the fire box super heated, but no where to got. I would think running the unit where flames are in the firebox (small flames) is best for you rather than a smoldering load, that should eliminate your smoke smell until you can figure out how to meet the specific draft guidelines from BK.

 

[webby3650]

That would make sense if it only did it on boards but it does it on straight oak too even after 5 loads straight. It does it on every type of wood regardless if it's loaded to the door or not. I have even loaded it 1/2 full with the oak at just the rear of the stove and it still stinks.

On a different not I think the main issue with burning board ends of pine as long as they didn't come from a salt water mill (corrosion) is first on re-loads they catch fire so fast that with a strong draft and the bypass open flames will get sucked way up into the chimney potentially over heating the chimney or if it's all creosoted up catch it on fire. 2nd pine in general has more sap so chimney cleaning is more frequent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem with burning milled lumber is that it can cause an overfire situation very quickly and damage the stove. A BK can handle it just fine if it's stacked tightly I'd say. The sap in it won't have any affect on the flue, if the pine is seasoned, or in the case kiln dried its no different than other species.

 

[ohiojoe13]

I have only burned cord wood in my Ashford and I have the left side smoke smell. This is my second year burning with it. Last year the smoke smell drove me nuts. This year I have dealt with it. I was told it was a draft problem and had a few phone calls with BKVP. I have a 3 foot section of class a I still need to add to my chimney to help with draft. I'm just not convinced it's a draft problem.

 

[aaronk25]

Hmmm think of this, and it takes an open mind (plus I'm having a hard time putting this into words atm)... small failures in install. Max draft on these units running on high setting is .05, you say in your 1st post that you measured on low .05. So while the fire is smoldering on low the heat produced in the fire box is constantly getting sucked out of the fire box fooling the t-stat to opening up and allow more air to enter. This additional air is right at the balance of a smoldering fire and one that becomes oxygen rich and goes into flames. (not quite flames but to much smoke, just perhaps a hair below ignition point of smoke) this is probably over whelming the cat and the smoke is just sitting in the fire box super heated, but no where to got. I would think running the unit where flames are in the firebox (small flames) is best for you rather than a smoldering load, that should eliminate your smoke smell until you can figure out how to meet the specific draft guidelines from BK.

Thanks for thoughts. So there are many other BK 30 models that are doing the same thing as mine. Most people that have the problem discuss chimney set up ect but I think I'm one of the few who actually hooked up a manometer and measured draft. BK blames the problem of smoke smell with low draft in these stoves, I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. Now whether I keep this stove or BK takes it back I am still going to put a barametric damper on it to reduce the draft to see if it helps as the next stove installed will require about the same draft numbers BK requires.

The reason I don't think overdraft per se is the root cause of the problem or "overwhelming" the cat as a secondary issue is because with excessive draft also know as pressure drop would create a lower the room atmospheric pressure resulting in room air going though the rope seal not pushing smoke out though it. Also I'm not sure what "overwhelming" the cat means. The cat is slightly restrictive but if two much CFM is pulled though the cat due to excessive draft the cat would either not consume all the cat food because the duration of time the food is inside the cat would be to short not allowing ample time for complete combustion or the cat would still combust most of the cat food but because it is combusting more food in a given time it could potentially get to hot.

There also is not a positive pressure inside the stove it's always less than room pressure. With the draft I had I can actually leave the cat engaged bypass closed and crack them door and mostly open the door without smoke spillage. I found this out by accident as I forgot to open the bypass one time when reloading and then when realizing the mistake immediately opened it.

 

[webby3650]

I have only burned cord wood in my Ashford and I have the left side smoke smell. This is my second year burning with it. Last year the smoke smell drove me nuts. This year I have dealt with it. I was told it was a draft problem and had a few phone calls with BKVP. I have a 3 foot section of class a I still need to add to my chimney to help with draft. I'm just not convinced it's a draft problem.

So why haven't you added the extra pipe then? If the manufacturer suggests it, I'd at least try rather than dealing with an issue. You'd have a hard time finding a more knowledgeable source than BKVP, I'd take his advice.

 

[ohiojoe13]

So why haven't you added the extra pipe then? If the manufacturer suggests it, I'd at least try rather than dealing with an issue. You'd have a hard time finding a more knowledgeable source than BKVP, I'd take his advice.

I'm having a hard time finding someone to do it. My chimney is already about 9 foot above the roof line. I can't reach it to install it. I would also need another support.

 

[aaronk25]

I'm having a hard time finding someone to do it. My chimney is already about 9 foot above the roof line. I can't reach it to install it. I would also need another support.

Why not just buy a monometer for $30 bucks and stick the hose in though the chimney temp probe hole and see what the actual draft is to determine if there is in fact a problem? The reason a person adds or subtracts chimney height, within reason is to increase or decrease draft. There is lots of reasons why a chimney of equal size and length will produce different draft numbers, location, altitude ect. Let's find out if there actually is a problem first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ashful]

I read the first page of the thread before getting bored, but this sounds like classic back-puffing to me. When I say that, don't infer that I mean you must be seeing violet back-puffs with smoke wheezing out of the stove. It just means that you are reaching the point where you lose negative pressure inside the stove. I say this because you report it happening only when you hear the thermostat click shut, which would make this a classic example of that scenario.

Back-puffing happens when the volatile gasses coming off the wood are not moving out through the exhaust (in your case, combustor) quickly enough, and they reach critical air/fuel ratio in the box to ignite and burn. In more active cases there is a visible flash of fire, and in some extreme cases even a noise and expel of smoke through the air inlets, but that need not be the case to qualify. It can be completely invisible and silent, in mild cases.

On one of my old catalytic Jotuls, I could predictably and repeatedly get it to back-puff by loading the box full with certain woods (walnut was the biggest offender), waiting a prescribed period of time (approx. 1 hour into the burn), and turning the air too low. At the time, a few Woodstock owners (Fireviews?) were reporting the same trouble, so it's nothing unique to Blaze King. It is something more prone to happen on catalytic stoves, simply due to their ability to run at these very low burn rates, where it is likely to occur.

Your solution: find the minimum burn rate where this will not occur, put a mark on your dial, and never run below it.

 

[Highbeam]

I don't want to read into what your saying to much but i didn't apply a pile of silicone behind the rope just a even spread to seal the the rope and threads and clearance holes for gasket retainer.

No reason to read more into it. I just didn't think you could reuse a gasket. I believe that the BK door design with those goofy nuts under the rope requires a big bed of silicone to work. Here's mine. I used a mountain of RTV.

Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.

 

[Niko]

Can you post some pictures of your chimney from the outside, like from where it comes out of your house on your roof?

I know after gaining much more experience with my stove i can now see all the problems i went threw when i first bought it.

Do you have any fans on in your house, or anything that maybe could be sucking the air out of your stove, appliances or maybe another chimney that is just left blank?

 

[lsucet]

Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.

It can be possible they are using different gaskets? mine is clear color also and it came with it.

 

[ohiojoe13]

Why not just buy a monometer for $30 bucks and stick the hose in though the chimney temp probe hole and see what the actual draft is to determine if there is in fact a problem? The reason a person adds or subtracts chimney height, within reason is to increase or decrease draft. There is lots of reasons why a chimney of equal size and length will produce different draft numbers, location, altitude ect. Let's find out if there actually is a problem first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I probably should do. But I don't have a flue temp probe hole.

 

[lsucet]

That's what I probably should do. But I don't have a flue temp probe hole.

I drilled mine in the back at the collar adapter and covert it with a screw later. For some reason I was told that is better to measure draft close to the stove as possible.

 

[Highbeam]

It can be possible they are using different gaskets? mine is clear color also and it came with it.

You bet it's possible that they changed suppliers/colors. BK gasket is a special high density material. So as long as nobody got some generic stuff we can rule it out.

 

[black smoke signals]

Kennys post #52 I have an open mind and I think you have the best answer. Ashful I just bought a Lamborghini with a 8 speed Transmision your telling me I can only run up to number 2 on the stick?

 

[aaronk25]

So interesting after stuffing the steel pad up in the right air chamber the left side of the door for the first time ever stayed pretty clean with a cloud of black soot on the right side. There was less smell in the room than normal but sniffing the door I could still make a stink on the left side of the door and none from the right side, so I think BK should look into why the left side spots up more than the right side even when wood is in back center of stove. Next I'll take the advise of a poster and fix the seam in the rope so it's not in the straight away by the Hindge, which is where BK installed it at during manufacturing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[webby3650]

No reason to read more into it. I just didn't think you could reuse a gasket. I believe that the BK door design with those goofy nuts under the rope requires a big bed of silicone to work. Here's mine. I used a mountain of RTV.

Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.

I've never reused a gasket either. I wouldn't recommend doing that.

 

[aaronk25]

There was hardly and rtv on the seal when I removed it. The nuts were clean. The seal looked new when removed, but I'll replace it with a BK seal, but shouldn't have to given 2 months old!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woody Stover]

There was hardly and rtv on the seal when I removed it.

That should probably work OK, then...

 

[Ashful]

Ashful I just bought a Lamborghini with a 8 speed Transmision your telling me I can only run up to number 2 on the stick?

Nope. More like 7. Also, remember the knob on that thermostat has a lot more range than the internal mechanism. You'll hear the internal mechanism on a cold stove click shut around 2 o'clock on the knob. That's the setting that effectively closes the air control manually, completely defeating the thermostat. That setting is your allusionary "8th gear", and turning the knob down farther serves no purpose, other than over-driving the internal spring. It will not increase your burn times any farther.

 

[aaronk25]

Well knock on wood but I think the problem is fixed. So is a combination of the a door seal retainer and need for a tighter knitted door seal. The other blaze King stoves such as the princess have a deeper leg on the door gasket retainer so when door is closed there is more say 5/8" of door seal that smoke would have to go though in order to get to atmosphere. On my Ashford there is about 3/8" and it doesn't ramp up its flat or ramps down and there is no way to push the gasket further to the out side perimeter because to do that the gasket retainer would have to be moved outward but then the door wouldn't shut due interference with the stove casting.

My dealer ran out of BK door seal and had another mfg door seal there and when compared to a boat rope the BK seal has large webbing/knitting and this Black seal looked like a high end boat rope with very tight knitting.

After installing I was amazed even on high how much longer and slower the flames moved and a chimney temp or around 450 instead of 550-600 on high. Also ZERO SMOKE smell on low and my burn time increased by 20%.

So I think the white seal is fine for other stoves because the retainers are bigger.

The door must have been leaking air in and out despite having past the $ bill test. The leak must have went both ways.

So I'm only into this solution now for about 12hours but, it was IMMEDIATELY noticeable the second I closed the door in burn rate and I could hear more air coming down my outside air make up. I'll post pick tonight! So happy I think this problem is solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lsucet]

Well knock on wood but I think the problem is fixed. So is a combination of the a door seal retainer and need for a tighter knitted door seal. The other blaze King stoves such as the princess have a deeper leg on the door gasket retainer so when door is closed there is more say 5/8" of door seal that smoke would have to go though in order to get to atmosphere. On my Ashford there is about 3/8" and it doesn't ramp up its flat or ramps down and there is no way to push the gasket further to the out side perimeter because to do that the gasket retainer would have to be moved outward but then the door wouldn't shut due interference with the stove casting.

My dealer ran out of BK door seal and had another mfg door seal there and when compared to a boat rope the BK seal has large webbing/knitting and this Black seal looked like a high end boat rope with very tight knitting.

After installing I was amazed even on high how much longer and slower the flames moved and a chimney temp or around 450 instead of 550-600 on high. Also ZERO SMOKE smell on low and my burn time increased by 20%.

So I think the white seal is fine for other stoves because the retainers are bigger.

The door must have been leaking air in and out despite having past the $ bill test. The leak must have went both ways.

So I'm only into this solution now for about 12hours but, it was IMMEDIATELY noticeable the second I closed the door in burn rate and I could hear more air coming down my outside air make up. I'll post pick tonight! So happy I think this problem is solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am glad you get to fix the issue. I think i was having similar issue but i never experience any smoke smell at all. Last weekend i adjusted the door to give just a little tension because i was able to latch it real easy from day one but always pass the dollar bill test and i thought everything was ok. .

Yes, I noticed a difference after the adjustment when i did a hot burn to clean the glass next day after the adjustment. With hot burn like that, the flue used to get around 900 df and after the adjustment i just seeing 700-750 df. when I start dial it down the flue temp start dropping faster than before, stove temp going up and cat real bright. Including way less smoke outside on reload. minutes after reload that the wood catch, is just steam. White/transparent/non dense and disappear between 3-5 feet from cap. Yes, is an improvement.

About burn time i don't know yet, if got better. but last night i toss 5 medium size splits of pine in there for the final overnight burn around 8 o'clock, I was able to make more room but was ok like that for me. i still have some big coal chunks in there from the initial hot fire i did when I got here. By midnight looks like everything was going ok just with pine.(first time i load just pine). at 4 AM the cat was a big bright night light.lol. By 8 o'clock everything was just big chunks of coals. i open draft, rake them to the front and still getting heat from that load. I think is possible it improve burn time but not sure.

I going to toss a few pieces now and dial it down for the day.

 

[black smoke signals]

AARON Could the door be warped when hot? Placing a straight edge across FLAT side of the hinge might help some of us when looking for a fix. Ashful My black Lambo rips heater works fine no complains shifting needs work check engine light comes on when shifting to 4-5 and cruising I end up with this! Picture to follow

 

[black smoke signals]