Argument with the wood guy -- Need opinions

[Hogwildz]

I was in the "let him come and get it"... live & let live camp until I saw "“And what are they gonna do?..."

That attidude I'm inclined to reply "Well you could make good on the deal or we will both find out.'

This guy seems like he's very used to and comfortable ripping folks off. It rubs me the wrong way.

ATB,
Mike

I agree with Mike now . . . I'm pretty easy going, but that last comment would get my Irish temper a-boiling and spoiling for a fight . . . sorry, but at this point I would say the gloves have come off and at this point I would be more than a little ticked off.

Well, yeah I'm ticked off, but honest to God I think these jokers really think they're in the right.

There are legal ramifications to stopping a check under these circumstances. Firstly, they did provide 2/3 cord of wood, and so I do owe them for that. Secondly, if in the end the judge or the state decide I don't have enough evidence to say they shorted me, I'll still owe them the same amount of money, plus interest and court costs, and sometimes triple damages applies, though I'm not sure in PA.

But the other reason is that now, if I force them to make it good, I lose some influence with the state. If I only pay them for what they gave me, then the state might say "Well, it's fixed now, so we won't pursue it." At this point, I'll give up the $31 ($70 minus $39) to have them investigated.

Stop payment on the check and hold it in escrow until they make right. That means the money is there, but held up till the issue is resolved. Don't roll over on this arrogant mofo.
Just think of all the ppl he ripped off before you, and the many more after you!

Also, as you stated he said. He stacks it on 2 pallets at his yard and they to him equal a cord. Let him explain that to weights & measures when they show up at his yard and start measuring what he is calling a cord.
I'm pissed off just reading this. I'm in eastern PA. Might be worth the trip to Western PA to set some wrongs, right. In a non-violent, peaceful kinda way ya know.........

I appreciate the sentiment, but let's face it--it's only $70. I've already filed the complaint with the state of PA, and BrotherBart seems to think that will satisfy, but i'm skeptical. They'll ask me to prove he didn't bring me a full cord,and I won't be able to, and there it will end.

But if they at least pay him a visit, and explain what a cord is supposed to be, and keep his name on file, then at least we'll have accomplished something.

Tell W&M;to look around, how many places do you have to hide 1/3 a cord of wood?
Anyways, you did the right thing, good luck. If ya ever want to pay them a late night visit, lemme know

 

[wendell]

I wonder what the record is for the most posts to a thread in one day. This one has to come awful close. Way to get the hearth.com community rocking, Dave!

 

[Hogwildz]

I wonder what the record is for the most posts to a thread in one day. This one has to come awful close. Way to get the hearth.com community rocking, Dave!

This thread only has 5 pages of posts, there are some that have many more that that.
Usually the cat vs non cat threads, cap vs no cap, wire brush vs poly. etc etc. This is still an infant size thread

 

[dave11]

Thanks you guys. I think pretty much everyone with an opinion has weighed in.

I'll let everyone know what happens.

 

[Duetech]

Perhaps the sellers only need a little education. If this wood was sold to an older couple or person on pension or low fixed income the effect could be devastating. Simply returning the wood for the cash is not good business culture. Sellers jsut can't falsely adveertise. If the guys can't sell wood according to what the law recognizes then they need to readjust their ads. If they ae not willing to readjust their ads and continue to sell wood this way they are crooks and need to quit doing business. I've sold wood and it's not easy to make money for the work done. There is a chance these guys know they are short changing people and want the wood back to keep out of the lime light.

 

[madrone]

I appreciate the sentiment, but let's face it--it's only $70. I've already filed the complaint with the state of PA, and BrotherBart seems to think that will satisfy, but i'm skeptical. They'll ask me to prove he didn't bring me a full cord,and I won't be able to, and there it will end.

But if they at least pay him a visit, and explain what a cord is supposed to be, and keep his name on file, then at least we'll have accomplished something.

You did about what you could. It'd be a waste of time and effort to go much further, who needs the aggravation? I'm not sure how you'd ever be able to prove anything unless the the inspector was there at delivery, but either the guy screws it up for himself by arguing his "cord" is legal, or he goes ahead and follows the rules to avoid trouble. Either way you did your part.

 

[Nonprophet]

Sounds like the seller is his own worst enemy--that is if WAM follows through and goes down to his yard to see what he is calling a "cord" it will clearly be short and he'll get busted.......hopefully with a nice fat fine!
Like others have said, IMHO too many people these days get screwed and are just too lazy to do anything about it, and so the "screwers" stay in business and keep screwing away.......for me it really wouldn't be about the wood or the $70, but
just stopping these guys from ripping off other people.

Good luck and keep us posted


NP

 

[minnow19]

Showed me pics of it stacked at their property, on 4 feet by 4 feet pallets, but laid criss-cross for drying, and say that each of those makes a half-cord, and so I got two of them, and that was all I was getting.

you should have asked for copies of those pictures :shut:

or is there any way you know where they are located. Take some of your own pictures. Like stated, it may only be $70 to you, but $70 to someone else may put food on the table for some youngsters

 

[BrotherBart]

Sounds like time for Hogwildz to fire up that Harley and go for a little road trip. That would be a Come To Jesus Moment for those wood peddlers that I would hate to miss. :coolsmile:

"A local proctologist today reported a first ever case where he had to remove a split of firewood from a patient. When asked how it got there the patient replied 'All I remember is hearing a Harley stop behind me and a voice telling me I owed his buddy some wood. When I said 'What are you going to about it?' I turned and some big long haired dude covered in tattoos was standing behind me grinning.'

Honest doc, that is the last thing I remember. Is the phone ringing in here?"

 

[Hogwildz]

LMAO,
You guys got me all wrong. I am a mellow guy. Even keeled, laid back.
But those wood delivery guys kinda make the hairs stand on the back on my neck.
I always pull for the underdog. I'd have to use a nice knarly pc, that went in easier than coming out. Maybe a few mail barbs to top it off.
Anyone that sells wood for a living, at least in these parts, knows exactly what a cord is. These guys are just plain screwing their customers.
And deserve a little human induced karma to come back around to them.

 

[iceman]

Dave i feel bad for you... but if it were me, 1) stop payment.....2) tell him to pick it up or bring the rest
if he wanted to take me to court ... lets go ..... right now if you really want your wood .... call the news and get him exposed... maybe others will see it and think "oh thats what i got" then everyone complains! but dont roll over 250 is a lotta of money nowadays

 

[TMonter]

Talking to the local news is a good idea, especially if you make an rational appeal to the seller first and he does nothing to correct it.

 

[Hogwildz]

Talking to the local news is a good idea, especially if you make an rational appeal to the seller first and he does nothing to correct it.

Good idea, the news ppl round here are just frothing at the mouth to get a good local story.

 

[Hurricane]

Did you find him on CraigsList ?
You could let people there know by posting another post letting people know he shorts his customers.
Or post a link to his add here and some people around here will fill his mailbox, ring his phone at different hours.

 

[iceman]

i wopuld def hit the news set the record straight on what a cord is here is an example
look at this post you can see 3 rows by what looks 8 ft
(broken link removed to http://hartford.craigslist.org/grd/1311279203.html)

 

[Highbeam]

When he comes back to collect his wood, perhaps you only let him have 2/3 of what he sold you?

 

[northwinds]

When he comes back to collect his wood, perhaps you only let him have 2/3 of what he sold you?

Any update from the original poster?

 

[drdoct]

This has been beat to death, but be sure to let WAM know about the 'what are they gonna do' comment. With any luck you'll get a lifetime govt worker with a chip on their shoulder. One of the only times I actually like to see those roll. Some people hit on this but I don't think it was hit hard enough. Make sure you charge them for the time you wasted stacking. If they come and pick it up then it'd be with a $20 add on and that's being generous to them for what I charge for my time. Time is precious and I hate to see people act like it's nothing at all. If it didn't mean anything then I'd have all my wood pile done, but right now more important things are taking up that time. Truthfully, most people they deliver to are like my dad and would never take the time to actually stack the wood. They're idiots for not silencing you by dropping off more to make it right. I'm with hogwildz because I'd be doing everything in my power to get way ahead on this situation.

 

[mn_jon]

I think you did the right thing by filing a complaint. I would take pictures of the stacks with the measuring tape on them. Also try to write down about when you called and what was said. Have a neutral party (a neighbor or something) take a look at the stacks as a witness. I don't think the state will think you went through this elaborate scheme to steal some wood and hide it. They are smarter than that. I applaud anyone who isn't going to stand there and get screwed out of 70$ worth of anything. Up here I think you could get stabbed over 7 bucks And that comment "what are is the state going to do about it?" that just gets me going. I wouldn't want you to get in trouble so do as I say, not as I do. I'd get the remaining wood to make 3 cords.




Jon

 

[hunterpa64]

Had my first batch of wood delivered yesterday, from a local landscaping company. Deal was for a full cord of two-year old split hardwoods, delivered but not stacked, for $250, which seems to be the going rate around here these days.

Wood seemed to be good quality, but as I was stacking, it was clearly very short. I had built racks measuring 4 feet by 8 feet by 16 inches, and expected a cord to fill, or nearly fill, three of them.

Not a chance. Stacked, it barely fills the second rack. A pic is attached.

Called them back out to look. They say they've been selling it this way for years and no one has complained. Showed me pics of it stacked at their property, on 4 feet by 4 feet pallets, but laid criss-cross for drying, and say that each of those makes a half-cord, and so I got two of them, and that was all I was getting.

My state law defines a cord as 128 cubic feet of wood laid parallel and touching, ranked and compacted. I showed that to them. They said all they could do was give me my check back and take back all the wood. Said if they sold it the way I described, they'd go broke.

Not enough people burn wood around here that we have any true "wood guys," and as far as I can tell, only the landscaping and tree guys sell firewood. So I guess it's hit and miss.

They are required to provide you with a receipt, did you get one?

You have a legitimate complaint and should have filed a complaint with The PA Dept of Agriculture - Weights and Measures Division. Even after the fact, if yo were shorted I'm sure this practice is continuing. If you need more info contact me directly and I can guide you through the process.

But before I contact the state about these guys, I wanted to ask if they have any sort of case for what they say, or are they totally nuts?

Thanks.

 

[Spikem]

Holy moly...all this excitiment over a cord (or less) of wood. Doesn't anyone get the benefit of the doubt anymore? Writing letters, being forcefull, etc etc. Sheesh....if this were me I'd simply return the wood. Lesson learned. Why make a stink. The state of PA no doubt has more important things to deal with right now than me getting shorted on a cord of firewood...Just MY OPINION of course.....

In your sig, you have the following:

(30) Milwaukee’s Best Light

Are you telling us that if you go to your local package store and purchase a 30-pack that, if you got home and found only 20 in there and were told "That's how we sell it" that you're ok with that?

 

[Stihl Country]

I would get your money back while the gettin was good. And go shop for wood someplace else.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

They're crooks! Tell the authorities so it's on record. Then have them take their wood back and give you your money back, if they want to go to the trouble to load it up again and haul it away. It's their loss. Then get wood from somebody else.

If you go to the grocery store and buy a dozen eggs, open the carton and there were only 9 eggs in the carton, and the grocery store said that's the way we always sell a dozen eggs any other way and we'd be out of business,........Well then, I say they need to be out of business.

I can't say it better than that!
I would sit there tippin' a bottle of Johny Walker while laugin at these Dorks reloading the wood . . . then take the money and get way cheaper stuff that isn't seasoned.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

Thanks you guys. I think pretty much everyone with an opinion has weighed in.

I'll let everyone know what happens.

Dave, In the future, I can supply you with wood if you like. I have 23 acres here and have more wood than I could ever possibly use. However, I just started burning seriously this year so I do not have that much seasoned yet. I am breaking apart my Holtz Hausen now so I could even get a cord now if you want (you can see it in my Avatar, mostly Cherry). By next year I should have alot. I even bought a Bobcat so I can start getting real serious about harvesting wood. I walked the woods yesterday and there are probably 15 cords of dead Oak, Locust and Cherry crying to be cut and burned. You know I will treat you right or the guys on hearth.com would crucify me.

 

[rdust]

Dave, In the future, I can supply you with wood if you like. I have 23 acres here and have more wood than I could ever possibly use. However, I just started burning seriously this year so I do not have that much seasoned yet. I am breaking apart my Holtz Hausen now so I could even get a cord now if you want (you can see it in my Avatar, mostly Cherry). By next year I should have alot. I even bought a Bobcat so I can start getting real serious about harvesting wood. I walked the woods yesterday and there are probably 15 cords of dead Oak, Locust and Cherry crying to be cut and burned. You know I will treat you right or the guys on hearth.com would crucify me.

Good man, that's a heck of an offer! +1