Call the state. He at least could be a nice crook! He has the nerve to have an attitude about it. He has been ripping people off for a long time. Expose him to the state. It may be his word against yours, but if he has many complaints the state, knows what's going on.
Argument with the wood guy -- Need opinions
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You paid by check? And you logged in here before logging into your bank and stopping payment? Next stop Attorney General. They are your advocate. And, oh yeah, park something in front of the woodpile until it is resolved.
dave11 said:
they have been selling it this way for years????? call me stupid but they must have pallets laying around their yard waiting on order. If it goes that far and the judge wants to see, they will have it stacked in your racks to see if you got ripped.
I would report them for being jack@asses - that an extra fine?
I'd contact the Bureau of Weights and Measures and ratchet the thing up a notch, a cord is a cord, period.
http://www.consumeraction.gov/state.shtml
http://www.consumeraction.gov/state.shtml
SolarAndWood said:
I considered stopping payment, but as it is, I'm out perhaps $70 in wood, while stopping payment costs $39 by itself. Plus, there can be legal ramifications to stopping payment on a check.
Plus I'm going out of town tomorrow, with no way to really guard the wood.
dave11 said:
You can borrow my 12 year old rottie for the weekend. She's old but still appears vicious from what I've heard. I would pay the $39 to make sure they don't have a cent of your money. At least call the AGs office this afternoon and find out what their process is. Not sure how it is in PA, but in NY the seller has to resolve it to the buyers satisfaction even if the buyers satisfaction is ridiculous. Not a big fan of that and again not sure how PAs AG office works, but you should use it to your advantage in this case.
zzr7ky said:
I agree with Mike now . . . I'm pretty easy going, but that last comment would get my Irish temper a-boiling and spoiling for a fight . . . sorry, but at this point I would say the gloves have come off and at this point I would be more than a little ticked off.
you gave him a check? that's easy - stop payment on the check
edit whoops didn't see the other post
stop payment right away - you did not get what you paid for - there are no legal ramifications for stop payments - where did you hear that?? i get them at work all the time when a check is lost in the mail or a duplicate payment
the guy can come and get the wood at your terms otherwise you will consider it trespassing
edit whoops didn't see the other post
stop payment right away - you did not get what you paid for - there are no legal ramifications for stop payments - where did you hear that?? i get them at work all the time when a check is lost in the mail or a duplicate payment
the guy can come and get the wood at your terms otherwise you will consider it trespassing
firefighterjake said:
Well, yeah I'm ticked off, but honest to God I think these jokers really think they're in the right.
There are legal ramifications to stopping a check under these circumstances. Firstly, they did provide 2/3 cord of wood, and so I do owe them for that. Secondly, if in the end the judge or the state decide I don't have enough evidence to say they shorted me, I'll still owe them the same amount of money, plus interest and court costs, and sometimes triple damages applies, though I'm not sure in PA.
But the other reason is that now, if I force them to make it good, I lose some influence with the state. If I only pay them for what they gave me, then the state might say "Well, it's fixed now, so we won't pursue it." At this point, I'll give up the $31 ($70 minus $39) to have them investigated.
You aren't going to spend a lot of time on a $70 dollar loss but you for sure aren't going to get satisfaction from this guy or ever do business with him again. File a complaint with PA Weights and Measures and then follow up on it if they do not respond in a reasonable time. At the least it will wipe the smirk off that fool's face. At best a pile of wood will be dumped in your front yard some day and he will get the privilege of getting as much grief as you got.
Bureaucrats love to justify their existence by jacking up guys like him.
Bureaucrats love to justify their existence by jacking up guys like him.
dave11 said:
They have $250 for delivering less than $170 worth of wood at the price you agreed to pay. It's not right that the money is in their bank account and the wood is not on your pile. Unless the PA AG is very different from NY, they will back you up in this case. They have given you no other option.
I would file the complaint with the state anyway. As I was reading down the list here I was thinking let him take the wood and file the complaint. Now that him taking the wood back is not an option definitely file the complaint.
See if the guy lists on Craigslist and everytime he posts, you post a note alerting his prospective customers to his business practices and complaints. I would post on craigslist anyway. Hit him in the pocket like he did you. And you are at least being honest about your comments so you would have nothing to feel bad about.
Just my 2 cents
I would be mad as hell
See if the guy lists on Craigslist and everytime he posts, you post a note alerting his prospective customers to his business practices and complaints. I would post on craigslist anyway. Hit him in the pocket like he did you. And you are at least being honest about your comments so you would have nothing to feel bad about.
Just my 2 cents
I would be mad as hell
I got shorted earlier this year. I bought 3 cords for $160/cord delivered. After it was all stacked I wound up with about 2.5 cord. I complained, the guy said he would bring out the other half. He never showed up. Needless to say I won't ever purchase there again.
In your case I would stop payment on the check as you got shorted much harder than I. I paid cash under the promise that if it was short he would make it right. A 3 cord pile is pretty large so it looked pretty close so it could be an honest mistake in my case but after stacking it was short. The guy was supposed to be reputable but just never made good on it. He didn't have an attitude though he did stay nice throughout. *shrug*
You could try to get them on record with what they call a cord and get the state involved. I am sure the state would be happy to teach them some math skills.
In your case I would stop payment on the check as you got shorted much harder than I. I paid cash under the promise that if it was short he would make it right. A 3 cord pile is pretty large so it looked pretty close so it could be an honest mistake in my case but after stacking it was short. The guy was supposed to be reputable but just never made good on it. He didn't have an attitude though he did stay nice throughout. *shrug*
You could try to get them on record with what they call a cord and get the state involved. I am sure the state would be happy to teach them some math skills.
Wow, what a response this post got.
I find it interesting when people post " face cord, half cord etc" In my experience, weights and measures & state law dictate how firewood can be sold, and they take themselves seriously. The comparison to gasoline is a very good example. One cannot where I live call something a cord that is less than 128 cu ft. period. The definition posted earlier is a good one, if a little lengthy.
My take on this would be, and it's gone past this... Provide to me what I am entitled to under the law, or I will file a complaint with the proper jurisdiction. Partial payment, take the wood back etc. none of them sit well with me ( unless the seller had offered a partial refund) If I were him, ( and I sell some wood) I would drive to your house with a load of wood & let you have what you needed, plus some extra, but that's me. Cancelled checks, and threats may bring unlawful retaliation from the wrong type of person, and that to me is not worth $70 ( I'm thinking of a frozen orange that came through a window after a bad college type prank)
At any rate, as far as you've come, I would say filing with the proper authority is the right course. Even if you don't feel like you're getting satisfaction, though I think you will. It is the proper course. ( If this were a forum on etiquette anyway)
I find it interesting when people post " face cord, half cord etc" In my experience, weights and measures & state law dictate how firewood can be sold, and they take themselves seriously. The comparison to gasoline is a very good example. One cannot where I live call something a cord that is less than 128 cu ft. period. The definition posted earlier is a good one, if a little lengthy.
My take on this would be, and it's gone past this... Provide to me what I am entitled to under the law, or I will file a complaint with the proper jurisdiction. Partial payment, take the wood back etc. none of them sit well with me ( unless the seller had offered a partial refund) If I were him, ( and I sell some wood) I would drive to your house with a load of wood & let you have what you needed, plus some extra, but that's me. Cancelled checks, and threats may bring unlawful retaliation from the wrong type of person, and that to me is not worth $70 ( I'm thinking of a frozen orange that came through a window after a bad college type prank)
At any rate, as far as you've come, I would say filing with the proper authority is the right course. Even if you don't feel like you're getting satisfaction, though I think you will. It is the proper course. ( If this were a forum on etiquette anyway)
Thanks for all the input, guys (and girls?).
I have already filed the complaint. Not sure how long it will take to hear back. I'll post some follow-up, one way or another.
I have already filed the complaint. Not sure how long it will take to hear back. I'll post some follow-up, one way or another.
Have you called other wood sellers in your area? Ask them if what happened to you is "normal". Don't bad mouth your supplier, just gather information.
I want to say fight it, but that's a hassle, too. I'm not for rolling over, as they are ripping you off. It's a $70 lesson, or a fight for $70 - you have to weigh the options.
Good luck.
I want to say fight it, but that's a hassle, too. I'm not for rolling over, as they are ripping you off. It's a $70 lesson, or a fight for $70 - you have to weigh the options.
Good luck.
Maplewood,
I do not think the fight is for 70$, I think it is to get what he paid for. I check my bill often lately at restaurants and at least every 3rd time I find an extra soda a wrong thing I did not order. My wife got annoyed the first couple of times and said it is only 2-3 bucks let it go. Hell no I do not think I should pay for services or products not delivered, so I questioned and had it corrected. Too many people these days do not stand up for what is right.
Sorry for the rant
I do not think the fight is for 70$, I think it is to get what he paid for. I check my bill often lately at restaurants and at least every 3rd time I find an extra soda a wrong thing I did not order. My wife got annoyed the first couple of times and said it is only 2-3 bucks let it go. Hell no I do not think I should pay for services or products not delivered, so I questioned and had it corrected. Too many people these days do not stand up for what is right.
Sorry for the rant
Hurricane said:Maplewood,
I do not think the fight is for 70$, I think it is to get what he paid for. I check my bill often lately at restaurants and at least every 3rd time I find an extra soda a wrong thing I did not order. My wife got annoyed the first couple of times and said it is only 2-3 bucks let it go. Hell no I do not think I should pay for services or products not delivered, so I questioned and had it corrected. Too many people these days do not stand up for what is right.
Sorry for the rant
No apology required cane...it is just wrong, Dave should get what he paid for and they should get nothing if they don't make it right.
I don't get why people on here say let it go with what you got. You should get what you pay for. Would you be happy if you paid for produce at a rate 1/3 more, just because? As someone else said, what about gasoline, eggs, anything you buy? I wouldn't be happy and would do what I needed to, to get what I was owed. Espcially with the attitude you have recieved.
stee6043 said:
That is a crock of shat!
A deal was made to purchase a supplied cord of wood. The "cord" worth was not delivered. Its not the purchasers fault, but the sellers.
If you got an oil delivery, and they charged you for 300 gallons, but only filled your tank with 200 gallons. Is that your fault? NO
If you bought a new house based on plans shown to you by the builder, and at time of settlement found only 2/3 of the house was built, who's fault is that.
If everyone was honest we wouldn't need weights & measures dept. His responsibility was to stack it, and seeing it was not the agreed amount paid for, let the seller know, which he did. The seller is not making good.
Yes I myself would tell him to bring my cash back and come get his short load of wood. I also would tell him no driving up to it, but he must wheel barrow it from the stack to his truck parked in the street.
There is a reason there is a weights & measures law & dept, and this is perfect example why. He didn't get fooled, he got ripped off paying in good faith. If it was the days where he could take a shotgun to the guy and make him bring the rest, then that is what I personally would do. But those days are long gone.
You may be the type that is fine to eat it and "chalk it up to a bad decision", but some of us still have balls, and don't take being ripped of very lightly.
Yes your in the minority, and thank god it is the minority.
Rather than tell the guy shame on himself and make him feel any worse than he may already, try and be a little more supportive next time.
I'm ok with you being the minority too. Shakes head.
dave11 said:
Stop payment on the check and hold it in escrow until they make right. That means the money is there, but held up till the issue is resolved. Don't roll over on this arrogant mofo.
Just think of all the ppl he ripped off before you, and the many more after you!
Also, as you stated he said. He stacks it on 2 pallets at his yard and they to him equal a cord. Let him explain that to weights & measures when they show up at his yard and start measuring what he is calling a cord.
I'm pissed off just reading this. I'm in eastern PA. Might be worth the trip to Western PA to set some wrongs, right. In a non-violent, peaceful kinda way ya know.........
also this is about more that $70. Think beyond yourself. If they short 100 customers this way it's $7K.
You have filed with WAM, now take a picture of the stacks then call and have them come take the wood after giving you $250 cash.
You have filed with WAM, now take a picture of the stacks then call and have them come take the wood after giving you $250 cash.
Pictures is good, I'd do that. but I would also keep the wood there until W&M;came and saw it in person themselves. Pictures can be deceiving at times, real life look cant.
Hogwildz said:dave11 said:
Stop payment on the check and hold it in escrow until they make right. That means the money is there, but held up till the issue is resolved. Don't roll over on this arrogant mofo.
Just think of all the ppl he ripped off before you, and the many more after you!
Also, as you stated he said. He stacks it on 2 pallets at his yard and they to him equal a cord. Let him explain that to weights & measures when they show up at his yard and start measuring what he is calling a cord.
I'm pissed off just reading this. I'm in eastern PA. Might be worth the trip to Western PA to set some wrongs, right. In a non-violent, peaceful kinda way ya know.........
I appreciate the sentiment, but let's face it--it's only $70. I've already filed the complaint with the state of PA, and BrotherBart seems to think that will satisfy, but i'm skeptical. They'll ask me to prove he didn't bring me a full cord,and I won't be able to, and there it will end.
But if they at least pay him a visit, and explain what a cord is supposed to be, and keep his name on file, then at least we'll have accomplished something.
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