2022-2023 BK everything thread

[ajzzara]

So I have a question that I am sure you guys can help with. I have a sirocco 25 insert that was installed in Nov 21’. My neighbor who has the same exact house/fireplace just got a princess installed last week. While congratulating him on his new stove over a few beers, I noticed that although his stove has been on for over 24 hours, he had no heat on the actual stone above the insert. He also didn’t have much heat coming out from behind his shroud. After the same amount of time, my fireplace stone gets nice and hot, and there it’s definitely a lot of heat coming up from behind my shroud. My shroud is actually closer to the fireplace than his, so that Robles it that he has a better ”seal”. What can be some reasons for this? Also which is better? I would assume his set up because though my fireplace is helping to radiate heat, I am sure he is getting hotter more efficient burns . This would also explain why he can get his stove’s cat thermometer to spike with in minutes, and stay in the active longer than mine. Let me know what you all think, and what I can/should try to do if anything.

 

[PropTwister]

Another thing is reloading schedule. 70 might be a real pita reload schedule in the king burning so long. Will be interesting to see where you end up

Ha, ya, those hot flashes are enough to drive both of you out of the house, but probably through different doors! 
I just checked the stove, and the thermostat is still at 4' o'clock, but the cat thermometer has now dropped back to about 1 o'clock and holding steady. I'm guessing I'll still get another 2-3 hours out of this load before I'm down to just red coals. That should get me about 12-13 hours total out of my current load made up of 3 NIEL's and the rest seasoned pine. Hoping I'll get another 4ish hours with the same load tomorrow as the house should be warmed up more. Will the heat output still be consistent as long as the cat is not below or above the normal range, or does the heat output change as the cat temp changes? I'm thinking about turning the thermostat down to about 3 after I reload and see how long that goes overnight. I don't want to lay awake wondering how high the cats getting while I'm asleep or trying to sleep!

 

[Nealm66]

Bkvp has been burning them a lot and probably has a good idea how they do in the king. My experience with them is they don’t get quite as hot as regular firewood. I wouldn’t worry too much about how high the cat is getting while you sleep as long as it’s not overheating the house. They regulate themselves pretty well and the new cat is going to run funny for a while

 

[Highbeam]

So I have a question that I am sure you guys can help with. I have a sirocco 25 insert that was installed in Nov 21’. My neighbor who has the same exact house/fireplace just got a princess installed last week. While congratulating him on his new stove over a few beers, I noticed that although his stove has been on for over 24 hours, he had no heat on the actual stone above the insert. He also didn’t have much heat coming out from behind his shroud. After the same amount of time, my fireplace stone gets nice and hot, and there it’s definitely a lot of heat coming up from behind my shroud. My shroud is actually closer to the fireplace than his, so that Robles it that he has a better ”seal”. What can be some reasons for this? Also which is better? I would assume his set up because though my fireplace is helping to radiate heat, I am sure he is getting hotter more efficient burns . This would also explain why he can get his stove’s cat thermometer to spike with in minutes, and stay in the active longer than mine. Let me know what you all think, and what I can/should try to do if anything.

His princess cat thermometer is a meter, yours is just an electronic switch. On/off.

 

[Highbeam]

Ha, ya, those hot flashes are enough to drive both of you out of the house, but probably through different doors! 
I just checked the stove, and the thermostat is still at 4' o'clock, but the cat thermometer has now dropped back to about 1 o'clock and holding steady. I'm guessing I'll still get another 2-3 hours out of this load before I'm down to just red coals. That should get me about 12-13 hours total out of my current load made up of 3 NIEL's and the rest seasoned pine. Hoping I'll get another 4ish hours with the same load tomorrow as the house should be warmed up more. Will the heat output still be consistent as long as the cat is not below or above the normal range, or does the heat output change as the cat temp changes? I'm thinking about turning the thermostat down to about 3 after I reload and see how long that goes overnight. I don't want to lay awake wondering how high the cats getting while I'm asleep or trying to sleep!

As long as your door seal is tight you can’t overfire it. It is okay to let that cat thermometer go way past the top of the active range. That’s normal, especially on a new cat.

I don’t have a need to run full loads at max stat setting and it’s certainly not the most efficient setting but don’t fear the high cat meter readings.

 

[Nealm66]

You’re just gonna have to play with it and see. The Neil’s logs will simmer and barely register and last a crazy long time if that’s what you’re looking for. I’ll burn them sometimes in the warmer weather just because of that. Mixing the pine in with them is probably a pretty sweet combination

 

[BKVP]

So I have a question that I am sure you guys can help with. I have a sirocco 25 insert that was installed in Nov 21’. My neighbor who has the same exact house/fireplace just got a princess installed last week. While congratulating him on his new stove over a few beers, I noticed that although his stove has been on for over 24 hours, he had no heat on the actual stone above the insert. He also didn’t have much heat coming out from behind his shroud. After the same amount of time, my fireplace stone gets nice and hot, and there it’s definitely a lot of heat coming up from behind my shroud. My shroud is actually closer to the fireplace than his, so that Robles it that he has a better ”seal”. What can be some reasons for this? Also which is better? I would assume his set up because though my fireplace is helping to radiate heat, I am sure he is getting hotter more efficient burns . This would also explain why he can get his stove’s cat thermometer to spike with in minutes, and stay in the active longer than mine. Let me know what you all think, and what I can/should try to do if anything.

Forget about comparing the two units. Your SC25 is a flush mount with a binary switch to show simply active or inactive. His insert is a hearth heater, sitting 12.5" onto the hearth. His cat thermometer is completely different in that it has a bimetallic spring, no switch.
Adding a block off plate might help, but sitting 12.5" in front, the facia of fireplace won't be as warm as yours.

 

[PropTwister]

As long as your door seal is tight you can’t overfire it. It is okay to let that cat thermometer go way past the top of the active range. That’s normal, especially on a new cat.

I don’t have a need to run full loads at max stat setting and it’s certainly not the most efficient setting but don’t fear the high cat meter readings.

Door seal is tight, according to the dollar bill test so I'll just let it do its thing and stop worrying. My only reason to run wide open was the dealer told me to let it rip 30-45 minutes every day, so I didn't get creosote buildup if I was going to turn it down low at night. We're forecast to get down to 22 tonight and I'm working to figure out how long a full load will last to keep the house warm.

 

[BKVP]

You’re just gonna have to play with it and see. The Neil’s logs will simmer and barely register and last a crazy long time if that’s what you’re looking for. I’ll burn them sometimes in the warmer weather just because of that. Mixing the pine in with them is probably a pretty sweet combination

He won't be cleaning out ashes until 2025!

 

[PropTwister]

You’re just gonna have to play with it and see. The Neil’s logs will simmer and barely register and last a crazy long time if that’s what you’re looking for. I’ll burn them sometimes in the warmer weather just because of that. Mixing the pine in with them is probably a pretty sweet combination

Since the New BK was my idea (and a darn good one if I don't say so myself) I'm just looking to keep my wife happy, and that translates to 72 degrees apparently! I'm using the NIEL's in part because I didn't plan ahead for this. The pine is about 18% MC so I'm trying to mitigate that with the NIEL's. Plus, I didn't have to cut split and stack them! I appreciate all the help and am having fun learning the ropes. Thanks guys!

 

[Nealm66]

Door seal is tight, according to the dollar bill test so I'll just let it do its thing and stop worrying. My only reason to run wide open was the dealer told me to let it rip 30-45 minutes every day, so I didn't get creosote buildup if I was going to turn it down low at night. We're forecast to get down to 22 tonight and I'm working to figure out how long a full load will last to keep the house warm.

Probably not necessary to burn high with the Neil’s but will help to keep the glass cleaner. Yup, my wife prefers 72 as well.

 

[ajzzara]

Forget about comparing the two units. Your SC25 is a flush mount with a binary switch to show simply active or inactive. His insert is a hearth heater, sitting 12.5" onto the hearth. His cat thermometer is completely different in that it has a bimetallic spring, no switch.
Adding a block off plate might help, but sitting 12.5" in front, the facia of fireplace won't be as warm as yours.

Thanks for the fast reply and insight. What about all of the heat I feel pouring out of the top of the shroud on my stove. Anything I should do, or it's expected because it is flush?

 

[Highbeam]

Since the New BK was my idea (and a darn good one if I don't say so myself) I'm just looking to keep my wife happy, and that translates to 72 degrees apparently! I'm using the NIEL's in part because I didn't plan ahead for this. The pine is about 18% MC so I'm trying to mitigate that with the NIEL's. Plus, I didn't have to cut split and stack them! I appreciate all the help and am having fun learning the ropes. Thanks guys!

We keep the living room in the upper 70s. 72 is more like suffering with central heat!

For the sake of long burns you can pack that king tight with fuel to the roof. No cross crossing the stack, just load it up like a pack of hot dogs with firewood and let her simmer.

Yikes22?!, we’re supposed to hit almost 60 tomorrow.

 

[BKVP]

Thanks for the fast reply and insight. What about all of the heat I feel pouring out of the top of the shroud on my stove. Anything I should do, or it's expected because it is flush?

Was a block off plate installed? Post picture showing install from a couple of angles.

 

[Ashful]

... The part that I'm scratching my head on is if I turn the stove thermostat up to the 5 o'clock position the cat thermometer will actually run up out of the high zone to about its 5 o'clock position. I'm thinking that's not a good thing but wondering why it goes that high if it can't over fire? From what I'm experiencing, I will never be able to run at WOT.

I think that getting your chimney draft dialed in is a very big part of this. I have two stoves, one being on less than 15 feet of pipe, and the other on something closer to 30 feet. The one on the tall pipe has so much draft that it was routinely plugging combustors with fly ash stirred up when running on high, so I installed a pipe damper and a magnehelic for monitoring and tuning the draft. This is the stove I routinely run WOT, as it's in a part of the house with very high heat demand. With the pipe damper and magnehelic, I can be sure it's always running right on the sweet spot of 0.05"WC.

The other stove, despite being on a chimney that's probably even below min spec, runs much more furiously after just the recommended 20 minutes at WOT. In fact, I only run it 15 minutes WOT, since it spikes the cat temp beyond what I feel is necessary to get the load baked out and ready for a 24 hour burn. It's possible this stove has a leak somewhere that I've never detected, but I think it's much more likely that I just have more than the ideal 0.05" WC. Because the pipe is so short, and because I'll never have any need to run that stove that hard (it's in a modern addition < 1800 sq.ft.), I have never spent the time or energy to investigate why it rages so much harder than the other stove after just 20 minutes.

So, if your stove is running scary hot at WOT, I think the first thing I'd want to do is get a manometer on the pipe during an extended high burn, and see just how hard it's sucking. I'm a big fan of the Dwyer magnehelic, and you can pick them up pretty cheap on ebay, as every HVAC contractor in this country owns and carries a few. Just make sure you're getting one with (or close to) 0.25"WC full scale, so you can read .01" WC increments and not destroy the thing when your chimney starts pulling 0.20"WC.

 

[dafattkidd]

Could use some advice:

I just ran my brush up and down my liner from the top of the chimney. I opened the bypass damper prior to cleaning. I was expecting to see the soot inside the firebox, I don’t see anything. I also didn’t see any advice for this in my user manual.

What do I need to do? What am I missing here?

Thanks!

 

[BKVP]

Could use some advice:

I just ran my brush up and down my liner from the top of the chimney. I opened the bypass damper prior to cleaning. I was expecting to see the soot inside the firebox, I don’t see anything. I also didn’t see any advice for this in my user manual.

What do I need to do? What am I missing here?

Thanks!

Was the bypass completely open? If so, the vast majority of debris would have fallen into the firebox. But.....congratulations on burning good seasoned wood and operating your stove properly! I've brushed 15' and gotten 1 measuring cup after an entire winter. I've also gotten 1 quart after burning silver maple not properly seasoned.

Good job!

You can also clean behind the cat after winter...

 

[dafattkidd]

Was the bypass completely open? If so, the vast majority of debris would have fallen into the firebox. But.....congratulations on burning good seasoned wood and operating your stove properly! I've brushed 15' and gotten 1 measuring cup after an entire winter. I've also gotten 1 quart after burning silver maple not properly seasoned.

Good job!

You can also clean behind the cat after winter...

Thanks for your reply!
Yes. I definitely opened it all the way. Sounds like I did what could. It definitely needed the cleaning.

I’m going to build a fire now. We’ll see what happens.

 

[Ashful]

I like to pull the cat out and vacuum behind it, but probably not necessary.

In any case, make sure there's no crud sitting on the bypass damper gasket, as it'll make it real hard to cam it closed. I probably spend as much time cleaning out that chamber behind the cat (as well as the bypass damper gasket) as the time spent on actually sweeping my chimney, during my annual cleaning of things.

 

[Highbeam]

I like to pull the cat out and vacuum behind it, but probably not necessary.

In any case, make sure there's no crud sitting on the bypass damper gasket, as it'll make it real hard to cam it closed. I probably spend as much time cleaning out that chamber behind the cat (as well as the bypass damper gasket) as the time spent on actually sweeping my chimney, during my annual cleaning of things.

As I recall, the new inserts have the liner coming in at the rear and at a 45 degree angle so debris would have a hard time making it to the cat.

 

[BKVP]

As I recall, the new inserts have the liner coming in at the rear and at a 45 degree angle so debris would have a hard time making it to the cat.

And the bypass slides 100% fully open.

 

[kennyp2339]

And the bypass slides 100% fully open.

Is that implying that you can stick a vacuum hose from the firebox and clean out the upper chamber?

 

[Crummy]

When I set my Sirocco 20.2 thermostat to 3 o'clock it keeps the house a nice 72ish degrees until the load is about 3/4 burned. At the end of the load I have to start turning the thermostat up to maintain the same heat output. By the time it's burned down to a few coals and ready for a reload the thermostat has been set on high for a hour or two. Shouldn't the thermostat keep the heat output the same until all the fuel is gone? It's less of a problem when burning Spruce as the coaling stage is shorter than with Birch. With Birch the thermostat has to be turned up several times in order to keep the house warm while burning down the coals enough to do a full reload.

 

[BKVP]

Is that implying that you can stick a vacuum hose from the firebox and clean out the upper chamber?

Yes, but not needed. A hand can wipe it off and down into firebox. The lip at the rear is about 1" deep.

 

[BKVP]

When I set my Sirocco 20.2 thermostat to 3 o'clock it keeps the house a nice 72ish degrees until the load is about 3/4 burned. At the end of the load I have to start turning the thermostat up to maintain the same heat output. By the time it's burned down to a few coals and ready for a reload the thermostat has been set on high for a hour or two. Shouldn't the thermostat keep the heat output the same until all the fuel is gone? It's less of a problem when burning Spruce as the coaling stage is shorter than with Birch. With Birch the thermostat has to be turned up several times in order to keep the house warm while burning down the coals enough to do a full reload.

The thermostat reacts to stove (bimetallic spring) temperature, not room temperature.
As the fuel load decreases, you'll need to add fuel to maintain room temperature or turn up the thermostat. Most folks add more fuel to minimize thermostat manipulation.