Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Ya, I’m running the big chunks a little high as they aren’t perfectly dry. Basically too lazy to chainsaw them smaller just entertainment on the weekend. Ones too big to fit ( I tried!) so it’s getting sliced .
2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)
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Actually, it shouldn't. Heat output correlates with burn rate, and that depends on the air supply rate, which in turn is controlled by the thermostat. The difference between small and large splits is the surface area, which means that a lot of small splits will smolder all at once, whereas a few big splits will burn more vigorously. It may affect the burn time because you have free space between the splits and while the firebox looks full, it's actually less wood than with larger splits.
Holiday
Burning Hunk
That makes sense, I'm finally on a 3 year ahead timeline, sure makes burning a stove easy
Holiday
Burning Hunk
In reference to what was said several posts ago...
I’ve got 4 stoves here that will disagree. It’s not about one being better than another. It’s about a wood stoves lowest burn for its size. Despite what anyone says, size matters.
Let’s compare apples to apples.
300*F coming off the stove body of a Princess will never throw the same amount of heat into the same home as a King running at the same temp.
Physical stove size and stove turn down ( it’s lowest temperature at it’s lowest cruise rate ) can go a long way in helping someone determine if a stove will work or not. It’s not perfect because of the many variables, but it can easily get you in the ball park. Most people just need to know from someone else the stove temps they are running at and the size of the home to compare. It’s pretty simple actually.
Of course there are limitless variables that can throw it off. Things like house layout, which way a home faces the sun, insulation, but once the apples to apples comparison is made, then a person can consider the variables, but you have to be aware of what they are and be smart enough to ask the questions of the other person.
I’ve had 5 big stoves here that were similar in size. By taking notes when using these stoves I am able to compare what temps the stove needs to run at given outside temperatures. I have also been able to determine that all 5 stoves are too big for my home for shoulder season running...even to big for temps down to 15F. They’re simply too big. I sort of guess this and it’s why I bought used stoves to try before buying a mew stove. The experiment has more than paid off. Actually, all 5 are too big for 24 hr burning even on low in 45-50+ degree weather. I have to resort to cycle loading or few pieces of wood at a time. That’s not hard to do, just not what I want to do. They all need to run very close to the same temps at low cruise to keep from burning me out of the house. All 5 (only have here now) stoves are really too big because none of them can run above 350 even in the coldest temps or we have to employ window stats. Not good for wood burning in anything but a BK stat type stove. Of the three stoves here two are wood only stoves, and one is a wood/coal stove burning nut coal and has a thermostat just like a BK. Stat stoves have an advantage when making a similar comparison because of their ability for long and low cruising. A bigger BK would and will work...caveat...if I only ever want to see a black box and employ windowstats. Not what I want from a wood stove, so when and if I buy a BK it will likely be a smaller. To confirm this BKVP was given my homes details and and recommended a smaller stove.
I won’t take a stoves brochures word for how they run. I want to witness it in my own setting. It’s up to me to make an informed decision and not waste my own money.
As an example many people have said their Lopi Liberty stoves have great turn down to run low while others have disagreed. So, I bought used first to try a slightly older stove before buying new. The difference between my Liberty and a new one = .1 of a gram emissions and a savings of over $3000.00 in my pocket. When I buy new they’ll be no dealer to complain to. I will accept the results of my own commitment.
Obviously, this type of comparison will not work for someone who doesn’t already own a stove, or two, or three, or ten.
So yes! Knowing a person home size, stove running temps, and model of stove is quite helpful to me. My researching and real world use of other stoves says it can help others get close. It’s not meant to be perfect.
I’ve got 4 stoves here that will disagree. It’s not about one being better than another. It’s about a wood stoves lowest burn for its size. Despite what anyone says, size matters.
Let’s compare apples to apples.
300*F coming off the stove body of a Princess will never throw the same amount of heat into the same home as a King running at the same temp.
Physical stove size and stove turn down ( it’s lowest temperature at it’s lowest cruise rate ) can go a long way in helping someone determine if a stove will work or not. It’s not perfect because of the many variables, but it can easily get you in the ball park. Most people just need to know from someone else the stove temps they are running at and the size of the home to compare. It’s pretty simple actually.
Of course there are limitless variables that can throw it off. Things like house layout, which way a home faces the sun, insulation, but once the apples to apples comparison is made, then a person can consider the variables, but you have to be aware of what they are and be smart enough to ask the questions of the other person.
I’ve had 5 big stoves here that were similar in size. By taking notes when using these stoves I am able to compare what temps the stove needs to run at given outside temperatures. I have also been able to determine that all 5 stoves are too big for my home for shoulder season running...even to big for temps down to 15F. They’re simply too big. I sort of guess this and it’s why I bought used stoves to try before buying a mew stove. The experiment has more than paid off. Actually, all 5 are too big for 24 hr burning even on low in 45-50+ degree weather. I have to resort to cycle loading or few pieces of wood at a time. That’s not hard to do, just not what I want to do. They all need to run very close to the same temps at low cruise to keep from burning me out of the house. All 5 (only have here now) stoves are really too big because none of them can run above 350 even in the coldest temps or we have to employ window stats. Not good for wood burning in anything but a BK stat type stove. Of the three stoves here two are wood only stoves, and one is a wood/coal stove burning nut coal and has a thermostat just like a BK. Stat stoves have an advantage when making a similar comparison because of their ability for long and low cruising. A bigger BK would and will work...caveat...if I only ever want to see a black box and employ windowstats. Not what I want from a wood stove, so when and if I buy a BK it will likely be a smaller. To confirm this BKVP was given my homes details and and recommended a smaller stove.
I won’t take a stoves brochures word for how they run. I want to witness it in my own setting. It’s up to me to make an informed decision and not waste my own money.
As an example many people have said their Lopi Liberty stoves have great turn down to run low while others have disagreed. So, I bought used first to try a slightly older stove before buying new. The difference between my Liberty and a new one = .1 of a gram emissions and a savings of over $3000.00 in my pocket. When I buy new they’ll be no dealer to complain to. I will accept the results of my own commitment.
Obviously, this type of comparison will not work for someone who doesn’t already own a stove, or two, or three, or ten.
So yes! Knowing a person home size, stove running temps, and model of stove is quite helpful to me. My researching and real world use of other stoves says it can help others get close. It’s not meant to be perfect.
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BKVP
Minister of Fire
Don't forget tax credit applies to both primary and secondary residences!
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Man, I think that really spells it out. I’ve reached a point financially where the little extra money for the king would have been insignificant. But house temps above 73 degrees really isn’t very comfortable. And it’s odd how stubborn a guy can get when it comes to opening windows to cool things off. Another thing to consider I think is reload cycle. Not to say it has to be at any given point but even with the princess I find myself looking at a stove that’s not ready for more fuel when I need to be gone for a good amount of time. I’m learning though. I bet there’s a few people that want a king model but if bkvp say nope, I highly recommend nope
Holiday
Burning Hunk
On the Ashford being a jacketed design I find I control heat output to a large extent with my fan speed. In my house once I get to around freezing outside I don't need the fan anymore and then it slowly gets to the point for smaller loads or one fire a day
Well, it's 29 outside, going down to 19 tonight. The wife said she was a bit cold (and I learned here that the wife not being cold is a good thing 
), so I dialled the Tstat to 4.30-5 ish. Went upstairs again, and thought I smelled the paint again. Took a look downstairs and this is the first time I have persistent secondaries (rather than a few minutes upon dialling the Tstat down). Man it's pretty, blueish sometimes even whitish whisps dancing down to the glass. I stood watching a bit, moved, and burned my legs because my pants were so hot. While it's good for long and low, this thing CAN put out some serious heat.
), so I dialled the Tstat to 4.30-5 ish. Went upstairs again, and thought I smelled the paint again. Took a look downstairs and this is the first time I have persistent secondaries (rather than a few minutes upon dialling the Tstat down). Man it's pretty, blueish sometimes even whitish whisps dancing down to the glass. I stood watching a bit, moved, and burned my legs because my pants were so hot. While it's good for long and low, this thing CAN put out some serious heat.
Holiday
Burning Hunk
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Making progress on the pile!
Getting treacherous in spots now to cut on the pile. Got to be really careful which logs I stand on.
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![[Hearth.com] 2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)](/talk/data/attachments/272/272774-e20ca94dcf5e9e48422bf7a090d28b1b.jpg?hash=NUtOuEPKql)
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Well, I finally put a little permanent mark on my swoosh at about 2:00. Not sure how but yesterday the big chunk at a higher setting kept the house at an uncomfortable 73-74 from about 8am till 9pm , it was still pretty solid but much smaller when I stuffed it full of press logs and put it at 2:00 setting last night. Much better today at 69-70. Crazy.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
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Holiday
Burning Hunk
That's 4 lol. Lowst I can run mine and stay active is just under 3 which is exactly horizontal
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Wow, ok, probably could use some swoosh training. So 4 is a black screen setting with Idaho logs and 69-70 and 35-38 outside
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
BKVP
Minister of Fire
So to all you that care, I have been studying (real-world) cat quenching. Don't call animal control, this is the effect of cold air or cold fuel load on an active combustor temperature. Piece size used was what might be deemed "normal" for loading as opposed to the kindling piece size that might be used for starting a fire. All experiments were run for 5 consecutive days, then the next scenario was employed. Thermostat setting was consistently left at 5:00 o'clock setting (I would provide degree of angle, but this group would start taking their stoves apart and measure!) and never adjusted either higher or lower.
FIRST SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperatures with no fuel being added. Loading door left ajar 60 seconds. Conditions at time door is opened: 25lbs remaining of 60lb load (40% remaining). Cat temp 970 and 60 seconds later (door fully ajar) Cat temperature 570. Loss of 200F, just over 20% of preopening cat temperature. These are the 5-day averages.
SECOND SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces), door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 48/32 (avg) over the 5 day period. Cat temp 1190 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 300F cooler at 890F, but dropped an additional 200 degrees (690F) within 5 minutes. So 6 minutes after opening the loading door and adding 40lbs of "cold wood" and closing the loading door, the combustor dropped just over 40% with a total loss of 500F. Recovery to origin point of 1190 was 22 minutes from door opening.
THIRD SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces) door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 29/23 (avg) over the 5 day period. Cat temp was 1300 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 320F cooler at 980F. NOW GET THIS, the combustor temp dropped an additional 470F within 5 minutes. This mean 510F was combustor temperature (550F+ is deemed "active"). Now this is quenching! It took 36 minutes to reach 1290F combustor temp.
FOURTH SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces) door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 34/28 (avg) over the 5 day period. However, for this 5 day period, daily loads were placed 24" away from the stove and let sit for 12 hours. Cat temp was 1157 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 270F cooler at 887F. The combustor temp dropped an additional 170F within 5 minutes. Combustor temperature reached 1164 within 14 minutes of loading. This was the fastest recovery, least amount of quenching of all scenarios.
A bit about the fuel: All fuel cut from the same trees 5 years ago. Black locust, heavy bark on all pieces (1-2" thick). Range m/c of fuel using 1" pins on Delmhorst J2000, 15-19%
Moral of the scenarios: If you want to minimize quenching, try to bring your next fuel load into the stove room about 12 hours ahead of loading. Mind you, at any point after loading, I could have turned up the thermostat to incentive increased combustion rate and operating temperatures. In doing so, more gases would be produced at a faster rate and the combustor temperatures would have recovered at a faster rate.
FIRST SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperatures with no fuel being added. Loading door left ajar 60 seconds. Conditions at time door is opened: 25lbs remaining of 60lb load (40% remaining). Cat temp 970 and 60 seconds later (door fully ajar) Cat temperature 570. Loss of 200F, just over 20% of preopening cat temperature. These are the 5-day averages.
SECOND SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces), door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 48/32 (avg) over the 5 day period. Cat temp 1190 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 300F cooler at 890F, but dropped an additional 200 degrees (690F) within 5 minutes. So 6 minutes after opening the loading door and adding 40lbs of "cold wood" and closing the loading door, the combustor dropped just over 40% with a total loss of 500F. Recovery to origin point of 1190 was 22 minutes from door opening.
THIRD SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces) door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 29/23 (avg) over the 5 day period. Cat temp was 1300 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 320F cooler at 980F. NOW GET THIS, the combustor temp dropped an additional 470F within 5 minutes. This mean 510F was combustor temperature (550F+ is deemed "active"). Now this is quenching! It took 36 minutes to reach 1290F combustor temp.
FOURTH SCENARIO:
Effect to combustor temperature with 40lbs of fuel added (no more than 5 pieces) door left ajar for full 60 seconds, even though fuel was loaded in 34 seconds (avg). Fuel load came directly off wood pile in outdoor wood shed. Ambient temps were 34/28 (avg) over the 5 day period. However, for this 5 day period, daily loads were placed 24" away from the stove and let sit for 12 hours. Cat temp was 1157 and 60 seconds later cat temp was 270F cooler at 887F. The combustor temp dropped an additional 170F within 5 minutes. Combustor temperature reached 1164 within 14 minutes of loading. This was the fastest recovery, least amount of quenching of all scenarios.
A bit about the fuel: All fuel cut from the same trees 5 years ago. Black locust, heavy bark on all pieces (1-2" thick). Range m/c of fuel using 1" pins on Delmhorst J2000, 15-19%
Moral of the scenarios: If you want to minimize quenching, try to bring your next fuel load into the stove room about 12 hours ahead of loading. Mind you, at any point after loading, I could have turned up the thermostat to incentive increased combustion rate and operating temperatures. In doing so, more gases would be produced at a faster rate and the combustor temperatures would have recovered at a faster rate.
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kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
![[Hearth.com] 2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/272/272844-dc06b945797040aeea7678b244c850d2.jpg?hash=JYGJVd19kN "[Hearth.com] 2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)")
![[Hearth.com] 2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/272/272845-61e4b60ae008034a53b378de56ed6d66.jpg?hash=Hg9-BX42XH "[Hearth.com] 2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)")
@BKVP I added some imagines for you, and for the record, the cat pic is my cat this morning mid-meow because I wasnt fast enough to let him out for the 6th time in less then an hour.
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Interesting; on my Chinook the minimum swoosh (smallest white part) is just past vertical, which is what I call 1 o'clock. With the max at 6 o'clock as for you.
It would be great service to all of us on this forum if they could make this consistent across models. (Tongue in cheek... )
The only time my stove spends at stat setting =5 o’clock is during initial warm up. That’s way above the “normal” range etched into the thermostat dial by Bk.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Interesting about the cat temps on reloading. All my wood is stacked next to the stove so might explain , seems my reloads take off pretty quick even though my inside mc isn’t perfect. I’ll probably end up jacking my cat life up way quicker than the veterans but maybe next year I can get the 24 hour reload schedule dialed in with dryer wood. Thanks for the experiment!
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