2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[Highbeam]

Still learning.

Last night I reloaded by first opening the bypass. Wait about 1 or 2 min, then crack the door slightly to allow the chamber to equalize. Then open door (no smoke spillover), stir coals with rod, reload box about 2/3rds. Close door and engage cat since it was still slightly in the active zone.

Fire takes off and I let it go on high for 5 or 10 min. Lots of flame in the box and the top temp on the Princess Insert gets to about 600. I step out side and smell what seems to be like a burning plastic odor. Look up and there is some dark or slightly black smoke (it was pretty windy). Come back inside and turn down thermostat to medium to quiet the flames. Go back out and shortly thereafter the smoke is now white and then diminishes.

Was that smell just burning off some creosote from inside the box. I did notice some flaky black stuff on the sides and rear, and the door frame (inside of knife edge) is pretty gunked up.

No smell inside, BKVP is correct that there is almost no odor from breaking in the new paint on this 3 week old unit. What say ye?

There is only so much that the cat can eat. It can be overwhelmed and pass smoke during early stages of combustion and at high stat settings. Fortunately, you shouldn’t need to spend much time at full throttle.

The stink from the exhaust of a cat stove is odd. Plastics are hydrocarbons and wood gas is a hydrocarbon, it is possible that they smell similar when burning.

 

[Highbeam]

Woody, if I don’t have active glowing cat within 15 minutes on a cold start, I figure I screwed up! Do others take any longer than that?

I don’t wait for cat probe to indicate active before closing bypass, that lever gets thrown as soon as pipe probe shows 600 or load looks fully charred, whichever comes first. Almost always by 15 minutes after lighting, cat glows long before that too-slow probe indicates it should. I think that probe is great for telling you what the combustor state was ten minutes ago, not much more.

My cat is getting pretty tired here on my third year with it. Noticeably slower than a fresh cat to “accelerate” from engagement to full temp at 1300 or so. Glowing is not as intense but a nice red. Still working fine though and keeping smoke clan during the long cruise.

My old school bottomup kindling starts are probably slower and I am too impatient to burn up a “starter” fire of kindling before the main load so I spend at least 30-45 minutes getting from cold stove to fully heated cat.

Remembering back to my stone stoves days, that stone really sucks up the heat during warm up and would likely delay the entire cat activity process, especially when starting from cold.

 

[Poindexter]

@spudman99 , I agree with highbeam. When you first load the stove all those new splits have pretty much infinite surface area, and can spike enough smoke to overwhelm/ over feed the cat.

If you run your fresh load with the bypass open even for just a minute or two you can avoid that. In a good hot stove every surface of every split will burn off those little toothpick and whisker sized fibers pretty quick. That will smooth off all those surfaces and get the actively burning surface area down to a manageable level. Then engage the cat.

Since I am a regulated burner I am allowed to run 50% opactiy for 20 minutes on cold stats, measured by the Air Police out in the street in front of my house looking at my chimney. The quickest way for me to get a consistently clean plume is to build the biggest fire possible in the stove and run in bypass all the way to the probe indicator hitting the break between active and inactive. Then engage. Then look for a clean plume when the indicator needle gets to the first white crosshatch mark about an eighth of an inch up into the active zone.

I have experimented a little with engaging earlier. It makes sense that a hot enough cat being fed smoke is going to heat up quicker than a bypassed cat. But my end point is clean plume, and I don't have consistent enough results to keep fooling with it or even to recommend it. If you are a regulated burner it makes a lot more sense to get your wood drier rather than learn combustor stunts.

My last cold start was these two pics.


I don't know how long it was after 2032 that my stack plume hit 50% opacity.

 

[Highbeam]

Aren’t we all “regulated burners”? Regardless, shortest time to clear exhaust using reasonable methods is my goal too.

 

[Ashful]

My cat is getting pretty tired here on my third year with it. Noticeably slower than a fresh cat to “accelerate” from engagement to full temp at 1300 or so. Glowing is not as intense but a nice red. Still working fine though and keeping smoke clan during the long cruise.

My old school bottomup kindling starts are probably slower and I am too impatient to burn up a “starter” fire of kindling before the main load so I spend at least 30-45 minutes getting from cold stove to fully heated cat.

Remembering back to my stone stoves days, that stone really sucks up the heat during warm up and would likely delay the entire cat activity process, especially when starting from cold.

Just came inside from fixing a tractor, and fired a cold stove at 11:30p. Was fully engulfed by 5 minutes after match, cat engaged at less than 10 minutes, thanks to several scraps of framing lumber + two splits of cedar under the load to get it going quick. Already done 20 minutes on high with active cat, 30 minutes after lighting. Time for bed!

 

[MissMac]

I’ve been overwhelming my cat lately with some wood that’s been inside my toasty house for 2 weeks. A combo of white birch, jack pine and spruce. Had the stove off for a couple of weeks, and so that 16% wood was sitting inside, and the last few fires i’ve had, i’ve had smoke for 6-7 hours - light, but there. I think that putting wood that’s too dry in the stove can affect your stack output too.

 

[BKVP]

All users should be reminded to keep bypass closed and locked. If you do not hear an audible click, you may wish to adjust the bypass tension.

 

[Ashful]

All users should be reminded to keep bypass closed and locked. If you do not hear an audible click, you may wish to adjust the bypass tension.

There has to be a good story that lead you to post this reminder. It’s okay if you don’t want to “out” the perpetrator.

 

[BKVP]

There are far too many stories!

 

[Woody Stover]

Aren’t all fires big?
It was just a normal top down fire.

Woody, if I don’t have active glowing cat within 15 minutes on a cold start, I figure I screwed up! Do others take any longer than that?

It normally takes me a little longer, as I don't usually run huge flame in the box when I'm burning in a new load. I figure that "flooring" the stove with the air wide open will cause different part of the stove to expand at different rates, accelerating wear and tear.
@webby3650 would be the guy to say whether light-off times are much different, since he's run BKs and now the Fireview..

I step out side and smell what seems to be like a burning plastic odor. Look up and there is some dark or slightly black smoke (it was pretty windy). Come back inside and turn down thermostat to medium to quiet the flames. Go back out and shortly thereafter the smoke is now white and then diminishes. Was that smell just burning off some creosote from inside the box.

Probably, and after you cut the air it may have quit burning the creo..may still be more that will only burn off at higher temps.

My cat is getting pretty tired here on my third year with it....Remembering back to my stone stoves days, that stone really sucks up the heat during warm up and would likely delay the entire cat activity process, especially when starting from cold.

That's why I asked webby to compare the two, stone and steel. He only answers about 1/4 of the questions I ask him, though, so we'll see.
Other factors would be whether you have a ceramic or steel cat, and how old it is, like you said. And I do a lot of top-down starts even with coals in the stove (shoving them to the back) so it can be a little longer to get enough wood flaming to bring up stove temp, given I don't usually have the air wide open. It's amazing how little smoke I can sometimes get with top-down starts but every load is different, some are cleaner than others.

makes sense that a hot enough cat being fed smoke is going to heat up quicker than a bypassed cat. But my end point is clean plume, and I don't have consistent enough results to keep fooling with it or even to recommend it

OTOH, "fooling with it" can be a lot of fun. I don't have the law looking over my shoulder, though..

 

[webby3650]

That's why I asked webby to compare the two, stone and steel. He only answers about 1/4 of the questions I ask him, though, so we'll see.

I found the Fireview was really responsive and the fired up really quickly, it was a ceramic cat that was in its first season though. I had a totally different experience with my hearthstone, if it went cold it took forever to build any heat out of it. The Woodstock did not seem to have this struggle for me. I feel like the BK and the Fireview were up and running in about the same amount of time, not a huge difference anyway.

 

[Woody Stover]

I think that putting wood that’s too dry in the stove can affect your stack output too.

I have read somewhere that wood can be too dry, should be 20% or more, and there are posts about it here if you use the forum search. But I think that the 16-18% that is the equilibrium moisture content for the majority of the country isn't so far off that it will be much of an issue. And wood at that level seems to get going quicker that say 20-22%. I have to burn in the load more to get the cat lit off with only that much more moisture so I guess it's six of one, half dozen of the other, in the amount of unburned creo going up the flue.

 

[begreen]

The stink from the exhaust of a cat stove is odd. Plastics are hydrocarbons and wood gas is a hydrocarbon, it is possible that they smell similar when burning.

Different species of wood have different compounds in them. Some are aromatic and others really stink when burning and combustion is incomplete. Locust is one I think is this way.

 

[Ashful]

It normally takes me a little longer, as I don't usually run huge flame in the box when I'm burning in a new load. I figure that "flooring" the stove with the air wide open will cause different part of the stove to expand at different rates, accelerating wear and tear.

I'm sure you're right, but with this simple welded steel box, I don't suspect I'll have any issue within the anticipated lifetime of the product. Now if it were a more fragile soapstone stove...

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm sure you're right, but with this simple welded steel box, I don't suspect I'll have any issue within the anticipated lifetime of the product. Now if it were a more fragile soapstone stove...

I'm not worried about the stone itself, but yeah, any seamed stove is gonna need maintenance at some point. But a stove made of pieces can have just the affected parts replaced if you get 'em too hot. Still, I got my SIL a simple stove with a welded steel box, and I anticipate a long, trouble-free life from it. Now, if you do over-fire a welded steel box, it might be scrap. You likely don't have to worry about that with your BK; They don't get all that hot.

 

[webby3650]

You likely don't have to worry about that with your BK; They don't get all that hot.

They don’t get “all that hot” because it’s under control. I love that! Especially after reading about all the little tricks people have to do to keep these high end non-cats from going nuclear. My BK is down in the basement, I love knowing that I can leave it on high without worrying about it running away and damaging anything. 800 degree stove top is all that hot by the way!

 

[bholler]

They don’t get “all that hot” because it’s under control. I love that! Especially after reading about all the little tricks people have to do to keep these high end non-cats from going nuclear. My BK is down in the basement, I love knowing that I can leave it on high without worrying about it running away and damaging anything. 800 degree stove top is all that hot by the way!

But that 800 is only in one small spot.

 

[Highbeam]

Where’s that cool flir shot when you need it?

 

[webby3650]

But that 800 is only in one small spot.

Yes, stovetop. Some people want to act like they are all low and slow, that’s simply not true.

 

[bholler]

Yes, stovetop. Some people want to act like they are all low and slow, that’s simply not true.

In my experience they simply don't have near the btu output of other similarly sized noncats. And no the hot spot is pretty small on the princess at least it is not the whole top at all

 

[webby3650]

In my experience they simply don't have near the btu output of other similarly sized noncats. And no the hot spot is pretty small on the princess at least it is not the whole top at all

We all know, this has been beat to death. Of course the whole stove isn’t 800. If it were, it would be pretty hard to fit into most homes. If it were, the burn times would match that of the nearly uncontrollable and often unpredictable high output noncats. Controlled heat, that’s more my style and the others that follow this BK thread.

 

[bholler]

We all know, this has been beat to death. Of course the whole stove isn’t 800. If it were, it would be pretty hard to fit into most homes. If it were, the burn times would match that of the nearly uncontrollable and often unpredictable high output noncats. Controlled heat, that’s more my style and the others that follow this BK thread.

A properly setup non cat is not uncontrollable or unpredictable at all. I ran my 3100 on a 36' chimney and never had it out of control or do anything unpredictable. Because I set it up so I could control that excessive draft.

 

[Woody Stover]

They don’t get “all that hot” because it’s under control....Especially after reading about all the little tricks people have to do to keep these high end non-cats from going nuclear. My BK is down in the basement, I love knowing that I can leave it on high without worrying about it running away and damaging anything.

The way the T5 is set up, we end up cruising with the air down all the way and the highest I've seen is right around 700 or a little over, even with some of the small wood I've been trying to use up. There were a couple cold nights, as you know, but she didn't have big loads in there. With a full load of small wood, on a cold night with strong draft, it might go too high but those 10-degree nights it didn't seem to be pulling a lot harder on only 15' of stack. But at her place, a small load will get her through the night with enough heat. Once we get into the big splits I've been making for it (half of her shed for this year, then it will be all big 'uns) I think that will be the only "little trick" we need.

In my experience they simply don't have near the btu output of other similarly sized noncats.

Or even other cat stoves. Besides the thermostat, those heat shields on the inside of the BKs keep the thin box from getting too hot and warping, but the trade-off is that heat can't get out as fast.
If a guy wants thermostat training wheels on his stove..not that there's anything wrong with that. JK, just yankin' yer chain a bit. It's my job in this thread. Seriously, the big thing for me with the thermostat would be that it would automatically open up the air on the coals and keep the heat output up at the end of the load. Even with the small Keystone box in this leaky house, one of us is usually around to open up the air on the coals for the last couple hours of the burn and keep the heat pumping on those really cold days. We make it through the night without room temp dropping but a degree or two unless it's single digits with a howling wind.
Looking forward to get this place sealed up a little better..just found another huge air leak I didn't know about. Sheesh. I knew about the seam at the bottom of the wall board, but not the gaping hole in the corner, had some crap in front of it forever and forgot it was there. Fixing it in the next couple days. With this place a little tighter, even brutal cold won't be a match for my little box.

 

[ohiojoe13]

Think it could have been the cause of your smoke smell issues?

I was really hoping that was the problem. I have been burning full time for a few weeks and I still have the sweet smoke smell. I feel like the smell is worse. I dont think that washer has anything to do with it. But now when I walk into the room where my stove is I can smell it. I used to have to put my nose right over the hinge to smell it. How many people are here that have the smoke Ashford smoke smell?

 

[BKVP]

We all know, this has been beat to death. Of course the whole stove isn’t 800. If it were, it would be pretty hard to fit into most homes. If it were, the burn times would match that of the nearly uncontrollable and often unpredictable high output noncats. Controlled heat, that’s more my style and the others that follow this BK thread.

And can you imagine the clearances and hearth pad requirements....