2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[bholler]

It is ugly as hell though lol. If I ever do buy a bk it will absolutely never be a king or princess. They do have others that look good though

 

[moresnow]

I screwed up my woodstove operation yesterday- I was letting the stove warm up a little on high after a couple days of burning real low- and forgot about it, and went to work with the stove full of oak on wide open throttle.

Because it's a BK, this story ends with "everything was ok because the thermostat is awesome like that", but I still feel pretty dumb. Imagine if it was one of my old stoves I just left with the air wide open... I'd be posting "does this look warped to you?" instead.

Moral of the story: Take care of your gaskets, and your thermostat will take care of you. (Or possibly "don't operate a wood stove if you have no short term memory", but I like the first one better.)

Thanks again, BK!

This does such a nice job cleaning the firebox and viewing window I was amazed...…. Ooops.

 

[Highbeam]

After using the Princess for one season, I have zero negative comments. I bought the stove 100% based on the positive comments here. It is not a blast furnace, but low and slow performer.

me too, but after like 7 seasons. People here convinced me that a seemingly impossible 24 hour reload schedule was even possible. It’s ugly, the flame show is usually boring, but the family is very comfortable with minimal effort and minimal fuel use.

 

[BKVP]

Looking for a bit of advice (especially since BKVP is on here) regarding a new Blaze King stove.

Short background: Current Harman TL-300 owner. Starting to form cracks on the top load opening after 8 years of use. VERY careful to never over fire. Harman/local dealer is all crickets when calling in the 10 year firebox warranty. Still waiting to hear back. Either way, I'm done with this stove. WAY too temperamental to keep happy.

We have a 2400 square foot fairly modern home. Stove is located centrally on the first floor, not basement. 19' of triple wall stainless 6" chimney straight up, with a 2' 45 bend in the double wall stove pipe. In New England (north central MA), so we win the lottery on temp variation during the year. Current Harman has no issue keeping the house nice even during the -10's. Burning all hardwood. 4" outside air kit already installed.

I was looking at a Princess Ultra (quoted $3099) with convection deck ($?), fan kit ($300), and outside air kit ($150).

Would it be worth considering the King Ultra as well? From what I've read here, my setup is nearly perfect if using a King on a 6" flue with a reducer.

With a less labor intensive stove, I'd be looking to burn more often than I currently have been. Babysitting the stove for 2-3 hours before trying to get it to burn on it's own for 4 means I haven't burned as much as I'd like. Hoping a new stove will change that. Will the larger firebox be worthwhile to get it to burn for longer times? Since the convection top is included on the King Ultra, I'm wondering what the actual price difference would end up being vs buying the Princess with the convection deck.

Advice welcome.

First, I think all manufacturers should be given the opportunity to make it right. Call the dealer and ask who the local company rep is and go that route.

Second, you can see how face melting, high Btu's can present challenges. In your case, you may not even know your stove over fired. Even if you did your part, stack effect at 1:00 a.m. with a manual air control, an over fire can happen. Even if the air control was shut down.

When the stack effect increases, the opening of air inlet may not change, but the cm sure does! I've seen extremely well built stove glow bright orange at -40F in Alaska! And the air control was on low.

Back to your question, the guys here are correct. Do not try to run a King on 6"....your house will fill with smoke and neighborhood dogs will chase your beef jerky smelling carcass.

Princess is probably best based on your OP.

BKVP

 

[jetsam]

So had you engaged the cat or did you blow a whole load of oak at full throttle through the bypass? Have you checked the gasket retainers for failure?

Cat was in. I am running a steelcat again this year; it usually gets a few seconds of bypass after I shut the door. That's one thing I love about steel!

 

[jetsam]

First, I think all manufacturers should be given the opportunity to make it right. Call the dealer and ask who the local company rep is and go that route.

Second, you can see how face melting, high Btu's can present challenges. In your case, you may not even know your stove over fired. Even if you did your part, stack effect at 1:00 a.m. with a manual air control, an over fire can happen. Even if the air control was shut down.

When the stack effect increases, the opening of air inlet may not change, but the cm sure does! I've seen extremely well built stove glow bright orange at -40F in Alaska! And the air control was on low.

Back to your question, the guys here are correct. Do not try to run a King on 6"....your house will fill with smoke and neighborhood dogs will chase your beef jerky smelling carcass.

Princess is probably best based on your OP.

BKVP

BKVP's correct, and he's also very informal, leading me to conjecture that he may be getting into the bourbon on a monday night. Not that I can be pointing fingers at 3:30 AM. *cough cough* *glug*

 

[charger4406]

your house will fill with smoke and neighborhood dogs will chase your beef jerky smelling carcass

Lol, I have a buddy with an old drolet whose house smells like smoke all the time and my dogs love him,
I now know why.

 

[TheIglu]

First, I think all manufacturers should be given the opportunity to make it right. Call the dealer and ask who the local company rep is and go that route.

Second, you can see how face melting, high Btu's can present challenges. In your case, you may not even know your stove over fired. Even if you did your part, stack effect at 1:00 a.m. with a manual air control, an over fire can happen. Even if the air control was shut down.

When the stack effect increases, the opening of air inlet may not change, but the cm sure does! I've seen extremely well built stove glow bright orange at -40F in Alaska! And the air control was on low.

Back to your question, the guys here are correct. Do not try to run a King on 6"....your house will fill with smoke and neighborhood dogs will chase your beef jerky smelling carcass.

Princess is probably best based on your OP.

BKVP

It's been 25 days since they saw the cracks, denied the warranty, then I sent them their own warranty statement from their website (stating firebox is 10 year warranty), then "We'll get back to you". Checked in twice since, still "working on it". I need something to heat my house very soon. We're into the 20's at night. If they make it right, they will either fix the stove, replace the stove, or compensate me in some way to replacing the stove. No matter the situation, I'm ready to move on to something more reliable.

Princess it is then. Now to just call back all my local dealers to make sure their quoted prices are for the Ultra.

 

[Highbeam]

It's been 25 days since they saw the cracks, denied the warranty, then I sent them their own warranty statement from their website (stating firebox is 10 year warranty), then "We'll get back to you". Checked in twice since, still "working on it". I need something to heat my house very soon. We're into the 20's at night. If they make it right, they will either fix the stove, replace the stove, or compensate me in some way to replacing the stove. No matter the situation, I'm ready to move on to something more reliable.

Princess it is then. Now to just call back all my local dealers to make sure their quoted prices are for the Ultra.

You are right on the edge of the old model princess being out of production. Replaced by the new 2020 princess that has much better emissions specifications and is not available as an ultra/classic/parlor. Check that your dealer actually has what you want.

 

[BKVP]

You are right on the edge of the old model princess being out of production. Replaced by the new 2020 princess that has much better emissions specifications and is not available as an ultra/classic/parlor. Check that your dealer actually has what you want.

The Ultra, Classic and Parlor are ALL available in the the Princess 32 model.

 

[Highbeam]

The Ultra, Classic and Parlor are ALL available in the the Princess 32 model.

That's good news, the brochure I read only had an ultra.

 

[spudman99]

So my Princess Insert is now installed and I have 1 week under my belt. Can someone here please hold my hand

I think I have the loading process figured out, and am burning 2 year old split cherry that is around 18%. No problem with wood and I have not had less than a 12 hour burn using my settings. I have not pushed the unit because I am worried about an overfire, creating a dangerous situation or just simply creating too much heat that will burn the house down. Basically I'm still like a kid in school learning about this unit.

After I load and begin to char the wood, the flames fill the firebox, numerous ones which lap over the flame screen. Is that ok, or am I potentially damaging the combustor with direct fire?

After the cat goes active (which is easy), I see no glow at all. I think I saw one time the right side slightly yellow, but otherwise there is no glow from the cat. I know its working as there is no smoke outside, the cat thermo is pegged and unit functions fine I guess?

Yesterday I had to go out and left the insert after a reload on medium on the thermo. I realize every unit is different, in this case my son texts me 2 hours later that the top of the insert was 600deg with the fan on med. That is the highest it has been, I have not let the top get much above 475 or so for fear of creating a fire (see worries above). What is a safe upper level temperature on the top of the Princess insert if anyone has a reference point.

If I run the box on high and fill it with flames and let that go for any length of time, am I again at risk of damaging the firebox or the liner or the appliance connector or the electronics in the fan section if the insert gets really hot?

If I run the fan on low, high or in between, but basically all the time, am I at risk of wearing it out within say a couple of years?

I suspect that I am just crawling with the operation of the insert, hold my hand and teach me Master BK'rs.

 

[Nigel459]

Congrats on the new insert!

I have a free stander (Sirocco) but 600 on top is really nothing to worry about in my estimation. I don't have a stove top thermometer but I'm sure when I was poking around with an IR gun once I saw way higher than that, especially around the area where just under it that cat is chowing down at 1500*. Also, the beauty of the thermostat is that it self regulates and over-firing is virtually a non-issue.

I'm sure the insert owners will be by soon to help you along properly but sounds like you are doing it all right so far, with good wood to boot, so you'll be cruising happily in short order! Won't be long before you get to know the new unit.

Once again, congrats, good luck and have fun

So my Princess Insert is now installed and I have 1 week under my belt. Can someone here please hold my hand

I think I have the loading process figured out, and am burning 2 year old split cherry that is around 18%. No problem with wood and I have not had less than a 12 hour burn using my settings. I have not pushed the unit because I am worried about an overfire, creating a dangerous situation or just simply creating too much heat that will burn the house down. Basically I'm still like a kid in school learning about this unit.

After I load and begin to char the wood, the flames fill the firebox, numerous ones which lap over the flame screen. Is that ok, or am I potentially damaging the combustor with direct fire?

After the cat goes active (which is easy), I see no glow at all. I think I saw one time the right side slightly yellow, but otherwise there is no glow from the cat. I know its working as there is no smoke outside, the cat thermo is pegged and unit functions fine I guess?

Yesterday I had to go out and left the insert after a reload on medium on the thermo. I realize every unit is different, in this case my son texts me 2 hours later that the top of the insert was 600deg with the fan on med. That is the highest it has been, I have not let the top get much above 475 or so for fear of creating a fire (see worries above). What is a safe upper level temperature on the top of the Princess insert if anyone has a reference point.

If I run the box on high and fill it with flames and let that go for any length of time, am I again at risk of damaging the firebox or the liner or the appliance connector or the electronics in the fan section if the insert gets really hot?

If I run the fan on low, high or in between, but basically all the time, am I at risk of wearing it out within say a couple of years?

I suspect that I am just crawling with the operation of the insert, hold my hand and teach me Master BK'rs.

 

[Highbeam]

So my Princess Insert is now installed and I have 1 week under my belt. Can someone here please hold my hand

I think I have the loading process figured out, and am burning 2 year old split cherry that is around 18%. No problem with wood and I have not had less than a 12 hour burn using my settings. I have not pushed the unit because I am worried about an overfire, creating a dangerous situation or just simply creating too much heat that will burn the house down. Basically I'm still like a kid in school learning about this unit.

After I load and begin to char the wood, the flames fill the firebox, numerous ones which lap over the flame screen. Is that ok, or am I potentially damaging the combustor with direct fire?

After the cat goes active (which is easy), I see no glow at all. I think I saw one time the right side slightly yellow, but otherwise there is no glow from the cat. I know its working as there is no smoke outside, the cat thermo is pegged and unit functions fine I guess?

Yesterday I had to go out and left the insert after a reload on medium on the thermo. I realize every unit is different, in this case my son texts me 2 hours later that the top of the insert was 600deg with the fan on med. That is the highest it has been, I have not let the top get much above 475 or so for fear of creating a fire (see worries above). What is a safe upper level temperature on the top of the Princess insert if anyone has a reference point.

If I run the box on high and fill it with flames and let that go for any length of time, am I again at risk of damaging the firebox or the liner or the appliance connector or the electronics in the fan section if the insert gets really hot?

If I run the fan on low, high or in between, but basically all the time, am I at risk of wearing it out within say a couple of years?

I suspect that I am just crawling with the operation of the insert, hold my hand and teach me Master BK'rs.

You do not need to worry about flame impingement on your bk. Flame on.

The cat does not need to glow to be working.

Stop measuring or worrying about stove top temperature. It is not useful on the bk. The temperature of the cat right under the stove top is usually super hot like 1200-1500. You’ll need to trust your equipment and set the thermostat for your desired output.

 

[jetsam]

So my Princess Insert is now installed and I have 1 week under my belt. Can someone here please hold my hand

I think I have the loading process figured out, and am burning 2 year old split cherry that is around 18%. No problem with wood and I have not had less than a 12 hour burn using my settings. I have not pushed the unit because I am worried about an overfire, creating a dangerous situation or just simply creating too much heat that will burn the house down. Basically I'm still like a kid in school learning about this unit.

You should worry about an overfire until you get to know the stove. You should test the door gasket with the dollar bill test. Once it gets good and cold, you should test the whole system with a flat-out raging fire. Load it up and burn it on maximum, and monitor the stovetop temp with an IR thermometer. The stovetop should max out a little over 700. If it gets too hot, turn it down; you may have an air leak or a thermostat problem. I think mine runs about 725 flat out. I don't think I've seen it higher than 750.

Once you have burned a couple loads on high, you will have the confidence to know that the thermostat is taking care of things and you don't need to babysit it. (But you do need to check your door gasket yearly.)

After I load and begin to char the wood, the flames fill the firebox, numerous ones which lap over the flame screen. Is that ok, or am I potentially damaging the combustor with direct fire?

Over the years my attitude towards this has gone from "Oh noes, my cat is being ruined!", to "Eh, that's normal ", to "Yay, I can put the cat in right away".

Direct flame impingement IS theoretically bad for a cat. Thermal shock on cold ceramic can crack the ceramic. Excessive temperatures can level the substrate. But BK has a great system in place, and in the real world, I don't worry about flame impingement.

Make sure your flame guard (that piece of sheet metal with all the holes drilled in it) is in place correctly. Hammer it flat if it warps over the years. That's all.

As a bonus tip, go buy the longest pair of welder's gloves you can find. Home Depot sells a nice one for $15. If you knock the flame guard askew when the stove is hot, you can just pick it up and put it back. You'll use the gloves every day for loading, too!

After the cat goes active (which is easy), I see no glow at all. I think I saw one time the right side slightly yellow, but otherwise there is no glow from the cat. I know its working as there is no smoke outside, the cat thermo is pegged and unit functions fine I guess?

That's fine. It normally works without glowing. It only glows on higher settings, or at the beginning of a load when the wood is offgassing.

Yesterday I had to go out and left the insert after a reload on medium on the thermo. I realize every unit is different, in this case my son texts me 2 hours later that the top of the insert was 600deg with the fan on med. That is the highest it has been, I have not let the top get much above 475 or so for fear of creating a fire (see worries above). What is a safe upper level temperature on the top of the Princess insert if anyone has a reference point.

I'd start to worry north of 750. My PI tops out around there and is usually lower when running on high.

Some people run their steel stoves at 850 in the cold parts of the year; some people call 850 an overfire. You shouldn't be be to get up into that range unless you have an issue with your insert. As mentioned above, you have to maintain the door gasket every year (dollar bill test and tighten the door if needed) to make sure the thermostat can do its job.

If I run the box on high and fill it with flames and let that go for any length of time, am I again at risk of damaging the firebox or the liner or the appliance connector or the electronics in the fan section if the insert gets really hot?

If your thermostat and gaskets are good, then you do not need to worry.
I think everyone should worry about new equipment until they've tested it out, though.

That stove, when working as designed, can run flat out all the time. Your common failure points leading to overfire are excessive draft and leaky gaskets. I've never seen a princess insert owner complain about an overfire here. (There was the one freestanding Princess owner with excessive draft AND bad gaskets and no cat.... but I guess every category needs its outliers.)

You shouldn't be running on high (or even medium) all the time- that just means your stove is way too small for your BTU load- but you should have the experience and confidence to run it on high when you want to.

If I run the fan on low, high or in between, but basically all the time, am I at risk of wearing it out within say a couple of years?

Nope. Clean it every year or two. It'll die eventually but it's a good fan and might last as long as the stove does.

I use a stovetop thermoelectric fan for shoulder season, but when it gets below freezing I switch to the built in one.

 

[spudman99]

Thanks all for the hand holding. Baby steps but they are all important. I have no smoke smell at all...none... zippo..

Today I added some side insulation in the fireplace and connected my magnehelic. I did not add a key damper during the initial installation based on some advise here, but I wanted to for ease when everything was open. Hooked the unit up today and here are some following stats.

Initial reading, no fire, insert door open, bypass open a few hot coals. Reading is 0.05


2nd picture is with bypass open, wood fully engulfed with fire, charring the load. Once the cat is active, I close the bypass and continue on high.


1st picture is the reading with thermostat turned to medium, fire starting to die down. Clearly my draft is out of BK spec running this way. Not shown, but now the fire is gone, themo is at 1 tick above low, draft is at 0.17 inches wc. Again, should I be worried or am I running with too much draft that diminishes performance?

 

[lsucet]

Thanks all for the hand holding. Baby steps but they are all important. I have no smoke smell at all...none... zippo..

Today I added some side insulation in the fireplace and connected my magnehelic. I did not add a key damper during the initial installation based on some advise here, but I wanted to for ease when everything was open. Hooked the unit up today and here are some following stats.

Initial reading, no fire, insert door open, bypass open a few hot coals. Reading is 0.05
View attachment 250961 View attachment 250963

2nd picture is with bypass open, wood fully engulfed with fire, charring the load. Once the cat is active, I close the bypass and continue on high.
View attachment 250964 View attachment 250965

1st picture is the reading with thermostat turned to medium, fire starting to die down. Clearly my draft is out of BK spec running this way. Not shown, but now the fire is gone, themo is at 1 tick above low, draft is at 0.17 inches wc. Again, should I be worried or am I running with too much draft that diminishes performance?

The measurements should be at wide open on the tstat. If you close the tstat the pressure will increase giving you high reading but is not accurate.
After you close the bypass, burn on high for awhile and measure the draft without close the tstat.

 

[Woody Stover]

If you have that many inches of water, you need drier wood.

 

[spudman99]

My wife asked me if more inches were good or bad? I told her that was for the man-ehlic gauge....hehe.

Currently running on low, ITT (insert top temperature) is at 475, gauge reads .10 in. Guess that is good. Gonna be 62 deg tomorrow so I'll let it go out and check the door gaskets.

 

[lsucet]

My wife asked me if more inches were good or bad? I told her that was for the man-ehlic gauge....hehe.

Currently running on low, ITT (insert top temperature) is at 475, gauge reads .10 in. Guess that is good. Gonna be 62 deg tomorrow so I'll let it go out and check the door gaskets.

When the tstat is closed it will read higher. You want to know the reading when on high with a good fire going. That is what is important.

 

[Highbeam]

When the tstat is closed it will read higher. You want to know the reading when on high with a good fire going. That is what is important.

But before the thermostat starts to auto close due to over temp?

 

[lsucet]

But before the thermostat starts to auto close due to over temp?

That's correct. Being at 6 o'clock it delays the closing of the tstat cause it is keeping it open longer.

 

[sprawlnstall]

After nearing the 10,000 hour mark I noticed my ceramic cat was a little sluggish, and stalling out on my overnight burns. Put the new one in yesterday. I forgot how fast it can climb into the active zone. Anyone have any numbers on how much efficiency or burn time/consumption a worn out cat is responsible for?

 

[showrguy]

After nearing the 10,000 hour mark I noticed my ceramic cat was a little sluggish, and stalling out on my overnight burns. Put the new one in yesterday. I forgot how fast it can climb into the active zone. Anyone have any numbers on how much efficiency or burn time/consumption a worn out cat is responsible for?

No..
But make sure your CAT probe is clean, ayear and a half ago I replaced mine cause I was’nt seeing the numbers I was used to..
New CAT gave me about the same, here my probe had a bunch of junk on it, cleaned it off and all was good again..
Lesson learned..

 

[jetsam]

After nearing the 10,000 hour mark I noticed my ceramic cat was a little sluggish, and stalling out on my overnight burns. Put the new one in yesterday. I forgot how fast it can climb into the active zone. Anyone have any numbers on how much efficiency or burn time/consumption a worn out cat is responsible for?

As a seat-of-the-pants guess, I would say that my cat makes 75% or more of the heat when the stove is on the lowest setting with a fresh load. I'd guess maybe 25% or less when the stove is on the highest setting with a fresh load. Both numbers should creep down to 0% by the time the load is down to coals.

I'd love to hear some real numbers from someone whose company has studied it though! @BKVP?