2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 2 (Everything BK)

[MissMac]

Greetings, Fire People! We need your help.

We are having the very first spot of trouble with our Blaze King Princess, installed in Spring, 2014. This year, 2018/2019, is our fifth season with the Princess. We burned part time (weekends only) for the first two seasons, then full time for the next two seasons. This is our third season burning full time. We burn dry hardwood and use plain newspaper and Super Cedar fire starters when necessary. Husband cleans the chimney and stovepipe every year with a Soot Eater. We remove the stove pipe and vacuum out the CAT from above/behind every year as well.

I noticed during our last challenging cold snap (Wednesday/Thursday of this week) that the stove was burning slowly even with the t-stat wide open. The CAT would not budge over the halfway point. We had about 4" of embers and ash in the bottom of the stove. I figured we had too much "coaling up" to get a really hot fire going.

I let it burn down overnight. This afternoon I cleaned it out. I left about an inch or so of live embers in the bottom, added a Super Cedar Burger broken into bits, and put a new load of wood on top, opened the bypass and the t-stat all the way.

Wood fired right up with the bypass open. Engaged the CAT at the appropriate temperature and shut the stove right down. Opened the bypass, wood lit right up. Closed the bypass, stove shut down again like I threw a wet blanket on the wood.

Tried leaving the bypass open a bit longer with an eye on that gauge, to keep from melting the stove innards. Fire took right off, burned bright and hot, but the needle just would not budge above the minimum CAT active zone point.

Finally just closed the bypass, put the CAT back online, and it's just sort of sitting over there, dark and sad, even with the throttle wide open. She's a sad Princess. I hate seeing her like this! =(

It seems a bit early in this stove's lifetime/use history to have to replace a CAT. Aren't the CATs warrantied for 10 years? BKVP? We do have a spare CAT and some gasket on hand, should it come to that.

We've never pulled the CAT and done the vinegar soak... is now the time?

WHY IS MY STOVE SAD?

P.S. It's a cold and snowy day here on the river. I WANT MY WOOD STOVE! *pout*

when your stove was cold did you look at the face of the cat and brush it off or gently vacuum it? i do this to my cat and it really improves performance - sluggish/smothered to fifth gear with 10 seconds of gentle vacuum time (on a really cold stove of course).

 

[showrguy]

Yeah, we pulled the stove pipe and vacuumed it out before we started burning this year. It looked fine. I vacuumed the front of it just recently- at least I vacuumed the guard.

I've got the stove shut down now and the*&^^*^*%&% propane furnace running . As soon as it cools down enough I'll open it up, pull the guard off of the cat and take a look at it.

Vacuuming the guard/flameshield is not gonna help you at all..

 

[becasunshine]

"Vacuuming the guard/flameshield is not gonna help you at all." You're right about that!

"when your stove was cold did you look at the face of the cat and brush it off or gently vacuum it? i do this to my cat and it really improves performance - sluggish/smothered to fifth gear with 10 seconds of gentle vacuum time (on a really cold stove of course)" Welding gloves and a headlamp are my friends.

The fire was low enough (embers, really) that I was able to get the flame shield removed with welding gloves, give the front of the CAT a light brushing, and vacuumed it with the ash vacuum.

Got it cranked back up now with additional splits on board. Just closed the bypass with the t-stat wide open. Fire did not smother. Gonna sit here with it for a bit and see what it does.

We can always pull the stove pipe tomorrow and vacuum the back of the CAT again. I'm mentally fighting this off! but we'll do it if we must.

The active CAT needle is climbing, so there's that, and the fire isn't smothered.

I have removed the flame shield in the past and vacuumed the front of the CAT, usually when I'm doing a big clean on a pretty cold stove. I know for sure I haven't done it this year, not before today. So now I know, it's better to stay on that preemptively.

Thank you, Peeps!

 

[Ashful]

It's sure acting clogged.

How tall is your chimney?

 

[Highbeam]

The cat could certainly be used up by now. 10,000 hours, not 10 years. When cats die they tend to accumulate more junk on them.

 

[Woody Stover]

She's a sad Princess. I hate seeing her like this! =(
Aren't the CATs warrantied for 10 years?

Yeah, but the cats start dropping in perfomance after about 3 yrs.
I've always thought BKs were sad, so that part of it is not surprising.

Cats need to be cleaned/brushed once in a while

Yeah, we pulled the stove pipe and vacuumed it out before we started burning this year. It looked fine. I vacuumed the front of it just recently- at least I vacuumed the guard. Never had the CAT clog before.

Need to take out the shield and look at the front of the cat itself..sounds like it's plugged, but if you've never had a problem, I'm guessing you don't have a tall chimney? It's possible that with cold weather, draft has been stronger, you've been running it harder, and dust got drawn into the cat and plugged it. You can blow it out with GENTLE compressed air without removing it and having to replace the interam gasket, from what I understand.

I guess wood isn't really consistent year to year.

Are you saying your wood may not be as dry? Have you got a moisture meter?

 

[becasunshine]

How tall is your chimney?

TALLER THAN YOURS! NEENER NEENER NEENER! ~~~

Uh, I dunno... it was a professional installation, we had to have a stainless steel chimney installed because there was no existing fireplace. The installation pro took it up to the required height above the roof ridge.

We have one 45' elbow at the ceiling, at the top of the stove pipe, to avoid a truss in the attic, otherwise it's a straight shot.

We get wind off the water all the time- it's rarely still out here especially during the winter. Draw is not typically a problem.

Stove is doing well now, running hot enough in the normal zone white swish thingy on the t-stat dial. It's burned down to mostly embers and is ready for another load of splits, but it's still running plenty hot.

I feel kind of stupid because I know that the CAT needs to be brushed/vacuumed on occasion. I actually thought about removing the flame shield and vacuuming the front of the CAT earlier this fall when we pulled the stove pipe and vacuumed the back of the CAT. Once we started dealing with the telescoping stove pipe (TOTAL CLOWN SHOE) I lost my mind and forgot everything I ever knew.

I will typically remove the flame shield and vacuum the CAT when I let the stove cool down enough to shovel it out. I just, forgot? There's been some other stuff going on around here and that particular step slipped my mind.

As a result we had our very first clogged CAT. I was pretty sure there was a clog but because we'd never had one before, I wanted the benefit of y'alls experience.

Thank you!

 

[Eclipse2380]

Just checking in to make sure this sounds right, at the start of running my Ashford 25 the damper is fully closed at the 12 o'clock position, now 4 hours into burn I've noticed it's fully closed between 2 and 3 o'clock position, is this operating correctly? Needle is still in the active zone but just barely , cat is slightly glowing and fan is set to low. Thermostat was at 3 oclock... I would think the damper should be opening more as load burned down to maintain heat , seems to be giving me less range..

 

[Woody Stover]

As a result we had our very first clogged CAT.

So you checked it and it was obstructed? How did you clean it?

 

[becasunshine]

Yeah, but the cats start dropping in perfomance after about 3 yrs.
I've always thought BKs were sad, so that part of it is not surprising.

LOL, shaddup! :D

Need to take out the shield and look at the front of the cat itself..sounds like it's plugged, but if you've never had a problem, I'm guessing you don't have a tall chimney? It's possible that with cold weather, draft has been stronger, you've been running it harder, and dust got drawn into the cat and plugged it. You can blow it out with GENTLE compressed air without removing it and having to replace the interam gasket, from what I understand.
Are you saying your wood may not be as dry? Have you got a moisture meter?

Ya, I've removed the shield and cleaned the front of the CAT in the past, but I will admit that I haven't done it this year until today. That did seem to fix the problem and fix it well.

We have been running it hard recently. It was cold and very, very windy here.

Do I have a moisture meter? WOODY, THIS IS ME. DO I HAVE A MOISTURE METER. HA!

Random readings from random splits here yielded 8% to 11%.

We buy our wood cut and split. Peeps out here harvest and let it sit for at least a year before they sell it. We keep ours under a carport, and with the wind off of the water, there's nearly always air circulation around it.

About the CAT, yeah, it's probably getting toward time to think about a replacement. Still firing up but we do use the stove as our primary heat source, so we are running 24/7 for most of the season. Our season runs from about the end of October through April.

I'll be here asking y'all to hold our hands when we pull that CAT.

 

[becasunshine]

So you checked it and it was obstructed? How did you clean it?

It must have been obstructed because cleaning it fixed the problem. Just brushed the front of the CAT with a soft brush and vacuumed it off with the ash vacuum.

 

[Woody Stover]

THIS IS ME. DO I HAVE A MOISTURE METER. HA!
Random readings from random splits here yielded 8% to 11%.
We buy our wood cut and split. Peeps out here harvest and let it sit for at least a year before they sell it. We keep ours under a carport, and with the wind off of the water, there's nearly always air circulation around it.
I'll be here asking y'all to hold our hands when we pull that CAT.

That MC sounds a bit low. Did you test a room temp, freshly split piece, on the freshly-exposed face? Judging by your indignation, I'm guessing yes.
So the seller stacked it a year, and you bought it in the spring and stacked in the carport over the summer? That would be enough time for faster-drying woods like soft Maple or dead White Ash split small, but likely not enough time for Oak or other dense woods.
Cat replacement is harder than a Ws stove, but not too bad.

 

[kf6hap]

You can use a soft pipe cleaner to clear out the holes. Low pressure compressed air works too. The active coating is one bazillionth of an inch thick. Easy to scrape/blow it off the ceramic block.

 

[becasunshine]

That MC sounds a bit low. Did you test a room temp, freshly split piece, on the freshly-exposed face? Judging by your indignation, I'm guessing yes.
So the seller stacked it a year, and you bought it in the spring and stacked in the carport over the summer? That would be enough time for faster-drying woods like soft Maple or dead White Ash split small, but likely not enough time for Oak or other dense woods.
Cat replacement is harder than a Ws stove, but not too bad.

Couple of splits in the house, there are no "fresh splits," all of this wood was split when it arrived. It's been sitting under the carport since early last spring. Our understanding was that the trees themselves were felled a year before.

 

[Woody Stover]

Couple of splits in the house, there are no "fresh splits,"

Get a big split of your slowest-drying wood (probably Red Oak,) room temp, re-split it and test on a fresh face. Oak can be IDed by the "medullary rays," light-colored lines radiating out from the center.

 

[jetsam]

Stove's shut down. The fire was burning so low I thought there was a possibility that I could get in there with welding gloves and get it done. Opening up the bypass and the stove added oxygen and fire lit up again. So ok, we'll go cold (or cold enough) and get it done, probably tomorrow.

I think for folks with plugging problems it is almost always plugged on the front face of the cat, so you probably don't even need to pull the pipe. Just pop the flame guard off, brush the face, and hit it with the vac.

You can inspect it somewhat with a flashlight and see how you did. You ought to be able to see through the bottom part of the cat (and you can probably stick a cellphone or endoscope up there to check the top part if the stove is cold enough).

 

[Ashful]

TALLER THAN YOURS! NEENER NEENER NEENER! ~~~ zz
As a result we had our very first clogged CAT. I was pretty sure there was a clog but because we'd never had one before, I wanted the benefit of y'alls experience.

I've not seen anyone with a Princess reporting this problem, so take it for what it's worth, but I've been having a little bit of a cat plugging problem on one of my Ashford 30's. I run two, one on 15 feet of pipe and the other on 30 feet, and the trouble is isolated to the one on the tall pipe, and it only seems to happen when I'm running it hard for extended periods, never when it's dialed down.

Then I saw this...

We have been running it hard recently.

Sounds like the issue I experienced, and the solution was very simple, a key damper. Actually, only simple if I don't fall asleep on the couch before turning the damper down, that happened once this year.

I'll be here asking y'all to hold our hands when we pull that CAT.

The cat is very simple to pull and re-install. Very simple. But take a picture before you pull it, if you have any doubts about putting it back in the right way. You'll need about 3 feet of 2" interam gasket on hand, before you pull the cat, this gets replaced each time. Use masking tape to hold the gasket onto the combustor for re-install, the tape will burn off at the first use.

It must have been obstructed because cleaning it fixed the problem. Just brushed the front of the CAT with a soft brush and vacuumed it off with the ash vacuum.

My experience was that this would improve things, by knocking a good bit of the crap off it, but I always required a full shop vac treatment to get it back to 100%. I'm not sure about the princess, or if you're even having the same problem, but in the Ashford it's pretty tough to do a thorough vacuuming of the combustor with it installed.

I think for folks with plugging problems it is almost always plugged on the front face of the cat, so you probably don't even need to pull the pipe. Just pop the flame guard off, brush the face, and hit it with the vac.

The first two times I clogged mine last year, this seemed to be the case, but the third time I just couldn't get the stove to start breathing right, again. So, I pulled the combustor, and found most of the back face plugged with something that looked like creosote. I'm guessing the total ash plugging on the front face somehow caused that, I've never seen it before or since, and I'd think the combustor normally runs way too hot to plug with creo, when it's not stopped up with ash. I clogged at least four combustors last year, that I can recall, before installing the key damper.

Again, I thought the problem was unique to those running BK 30's hard on very tall pipes, and a result of the more aggressive air wash on the 30 boxes, versus the old Princess and King. Maybe I was wrong about all of that, I had never seen a Princess owner indicate any similar problem, but I have seen such reports from one or two other Ashford owners.

 

[rdust]

Two words, polar vortex. I made it my b****. My kids went to school one day this week.

.

 

[jetsam]

I've not seen anyone with a Princess reporting this problem, so take it for what it's worth, but I've been having a little bit of a cat plugging problem on one of my Ashford 30's. I run two, one on 15 feet of pipe and the other on 30 feet, and the trouble is isolated to the one on the tall pipe, and it only seems to happen when I'm running it hard for extended periods, never when it's dialed down.

Then I saw this...


Sounds like the issue I experienced, and the solution was very simple, a key damper. Actually, only simple if I don't fall asleep on the couch before turning the damper down, that happened once this year.

The cat is very simple to pull and re-install. Very simple. But take a picture before you pull it, if you have any doubts about putting it back in the right way. You'll need about 3 feet of 2" interam gasket on hand, before you pull the cat, this gets replaced each time. Use masking tape to hold the gasket onto the combustor for re-install, the tape will burn off at the first use.


My experience was that this would improve things, by knocking a good bit of the crap off it, but I always required a full shop vac treatment to get it back to 100%. I'm not sure about the princess, or if you're even having the same problem, but in the Ashford it's pretty tough to do a thorough vacuuming of the combustor with it installed.


The first two times I clogged mine last year, this seemed to be the case, but the third time I just couldn't get the stove to start breathing right, again. So, I pulled the combustor, and found most of the back face plugged with something that looked like creosote. I'm guessing the total ash plugging on the front face somehow caused that, I've never seen it before or since, and I'd think the combustor normally runs way too hot to plug with creo, when it's not stopped up with ash. I clogged at least four combustors last year, that I can recall, before installing the key damper.

Again, I thought the problem was unique to those running BK 30's hard on very tall pipes, and a result of the more aggressive air wash on the 30 boxes, versus the old Princess and King. Maybe I was wrong about all of that, I had never seen a Princess owner indicate any similar problem, but I have seen such reports from one or two other Ashford owners.

When I did the cat bath on my original ceramic cat after 2 years, I found that it was plugged on the top right and left corners (where you can't see it while the cat is installed). So even with none of the usual risk factors (Princess, ceramic cat, short flue) you can be in need of some cleaning.

I haven't had my steelcat cool enough to even think about brushing it for months now, so I'll be interested to see how it looks when I shut down the stove for a flue sweeping. Might do that next week if I get a day off on one of those 50° days.

I will use my fancy new $40 endoscope to get some photos of it from both sides this spring, when I really let the stove cool down.

 

[Wildbilljp]

Man, I'm ready for my first fire in the Princess as soon as I clean up one hell of a mess in my basement living room made during the install. Ash dust, dirt, tools everywhere, furniture out of place pushed back here and there.
Here is my question: When I put the door on and closed it, the thing was super tight. How much pressure is adequate to have an airtight sill?

 

[begreen]

Just checking in to make sure this sounds right, at the start of running my Ashford 25 the damper is fully closed at the 12 o'clock position, now 4 hours into burn I've noticed it's fully closed between 2 and 3 o'clock position, is this operating correctly? Needle is still in the active zone but just barely , cat is slightly glowing and fan is set to low. Thermostat was at 3 oclock... I would think the damper should be opening more as load burned down to maintain heat , seems to be giving me less range..

Stove body warming up changes closed position?

 

[Eclipse2380]

Stove body warming up changes closed position?

Yes

 

[webby3650]

Man, I'm ready for my first fire in the Princess as soon as I clean up one hell of a mess in my basement living room made during the install. Ash dust, dirt, tools everywhere, furniture out of place pushed back here and there.
Here is my question: When I put the door on and closed it, the thing was super tight. How much pressure is adequate to have an airtight sill?

It will be very tight for a little while. It’ll loosen up after a short time.

 

[Tegbert]

Just checking in to make sure this sounds right, at the start of running my Ashford 25 the damper is fully closed at the 12 o'clock position, now 4 hours into burn I've noticed it's fully closed between 2 and 3 o'clock position, is this operating correctly? Needle is still in the active zone but just barely , cat is slightly glowing and fan is set to low. Thermostat was at 3 oclock... I would think the damper should be opening more as load burned down to maintain heat , seems to be giving me less range..

That’s normal. When you set the thermostat at the desired heat output that is as far as it will open. When it heats up the “damper” will close and when it cools will open back up to the desired set point. This is why finding what positions for your desired temp is important especially on low. Close it too much and it won’t burn the load down and will stall the cat because it isn’t letting enough air in.

On a cold stove on the ashford 25 fully closed is right around the 2 o’clock point. This is as far as you want to go during a burn and on my setup I have only been able to get it to run at that point twice or I’ll stall the cat. My low is usually between 3 and two.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[Eclipse2380]

That’s normal. When you set the thermostat at the desired heat output that is as far as it will open. When it heats up the “damper” will close and when it cools will open back up to the desired set point. This is why finding what positions for your desired temp is important especially on low. Close it too much and it won’t burn the load down and will stall the cat because it isn’t letting enough air in.

On a cold stove on the ashford 25 fully closed is right around the 2 o’clock point. This is as far as you want to go during a burn and on my setup I have only been able to get it to run at that point twice or I’ll stall the cat. My low is usually between 3 and two.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

Thank you , between 2 and 3 is about as low as I can go as well. I hear everyone running so low was concerned something was wrong. Recently cleaned the combustor and have been getting much better extended burns prior to that last few burns were about 4 hours and had to run stove real hot to keep cat active. Chimney is on exterior wall of house house and about 30' tall