2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

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I still don’t understand this statement, bholler. I see two issues with it:

1. There will always be days, in every house that is ever built, when you need just a “little” heat. Yes, I guess you could build small fires throughout the day, to pump and glide. But what about those who are away from the house long stretches, or who want to sleep through the night? It would be quite an exercise to pump the house up to just the right temperature on a small hot load in the morning, to arrive at your desired temperature when you return from work at the end of the day.

2. The ability to run low just means you can go bigger on the fuel tank, for any required heat load. The greater turn down can mean a much bigger stove for a given heat requirement.

I’m not saying there is no disadvantage to the cat stove, I’m just saying that I don’t understand how you can claim there’s people heating with wood stoves that can’t make some use of a wider range of output.

I’m also not saying non-cats can’t work, obviously many people are doing it. I’d just rather cruise low and slow, than play pump and glide games, particularly in a house with more rapid heat loss.

Living in the south this is why I went with a BK.. I don’t need a flame thrower. Just a nice fire for a few hours and then low warm output.

Now my buddy in north Minnesota? He needs a torch to keep his teeth from chattering.

It’s all based on where you live, your current lifestyle, and budget. My budget was $1100 for everything at first....I guess I can thank this thread for spending 4 times that amount! Lol


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I still don’t understand this statement, bholler. I see two issues with it:

1. There will always be days, in every house that is ever built, when you need just a “little” heat. Yes, I guess you could build small fires throughout the day, to pump and glide. But what about those who are away from the house long stretches, or who want to sleep through the night? It would be quite an exercise to pump the house up to just the right temperature on a small hot load in the morning, to arrive at your desired temperature when you return from work at the end of the day.

2. The ability to run low just means you can go bigger on the fuel tank, for any required heat load. The greater turn down can mean a much bigger stove for a given heat requirement.

I’m not saying there is no disadvantage to the cat stove, I’m just saying that I don’t understand how you can claim there’s people heating with wood stoves that can’t make some use of a wider range of output.

I’m also not saying non-cats can’t work, obviously many people are doing it. I’d just rather cruise low and slow, than play pump and glide games, particularly in a house with more rapid heat loss.
I honestly seeing very little benefit from the bk that was lent to me. Yes it is more even heat and I like that without a doubt. but I am saving no wood and I am getting pretty much the same burn times to heat the house to the same temps. I do like the stove but not enough to justify the extra expense and the fact that I cleaned the chimney today and got more than I ever have with my tube stove over a full season.

I have never and will never get up in the middle of the night to load the stove. Running a noncat really isn't nearly as hard as you guys make it out to be.
 
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I honestly seeing very little benefit from the bk that was lent to me. Yes it is more even heat and I like that without a doubt. but I am saving no wood and I am getting pretty much the same burn times to heat the house to the same temps. I do like the stove but not enough to justify the extra expense and the fact that I cleaned the chimney today and got more than I ever have with my tube stove over a full season.

I have never and will never get up in the middle of the night to load the stove. Running a noncat really isn't nearly as hard as you guys make it out to be.

It CAN run like an old stove if you run it that way. I wouldn't choose to for most of the year (though I do for the cold part of the winter).

How many fires are you lighting per month?

Your cat may be in the age range where most of us throw 'em out, too.
 
It CAN run like an old stove if you run it that way. I wouldn't choose to for most of the year (though I do for the cold part of the winter).

How many fires are you lighting per month?

Your cat may be in the age range where most of us throw 'em out, too.
It was a brand new cat to start the season. What do you mean how many fires am I starting a month? The same as with the non cat none it never goes out. Yes in the 2 weeks of fall we had I would have started a few in the regency. But not now.
 
many people don't need a stove that runs that low.
I still don’t understand this statement
No matter how many times I say this, it still goes un-understood by some; If it's not cold out, I burn half a load of medium-output wood in my 1.5 cu.ft. stove. My house doesn't vary more than a couple (2) degrees over the next 24 hrs, even though I haven't made any effort to burn particularly low, and our log house has some air leaks and no wall insulation. So why would I need a super-low burn? To make sure the room temp only changes one degree? That's way down the list of what I need from a stove. Not even on the list, in fact. Besides, there have been a number of BK owners are reporting here that they can't turn their stoves down very low anyway, without gunking their chimneys or smelling smoke.
 
I'm gonna sweep my chimney again tomorrow pm. Gonna be 60 here.

My Ashford definitely deposits a lot more in my chimney than my hearthstone ever did. I like it much better, but like bhollar I cannot usually reap the rewards of the super long burns. But I don't think I will Go back to a non cat anytime soon.

Ever heard of a sooteater tearing a ss liner? I am Doing it a few times a year and just wondering .
 
I'm gonna sweep my chimney again tomorrow pm. Gonna be 60 here.

My Ashford definitely deposits a lot more in my chimney than my hearthstone ever did. I like it much better, but like bhollar I cannot usually reap the rewards of the super long burns. But I don't think I will Go back to a non cat anytime soon.

Ever heard of a sooteater tearing a ss liner? I am Doing it a few times a year and just wondering .
Is it a light wall liner or heavy wall? Light wall it is possible but extremely unlikely. Heavy wall no way
 
If the aim is to preserve coals to light the next load, there's not much difference in the amount of time it takes to get the stove up to temp, whether you put the wood on coals or toss in a SuperCedar chunk. Even at 24 hrs, I'll have a few coals that I could start off of if I wanted, even in my small-box stove. But at that point I usually start a top-down or middle-down fire with a SC chunk. It takes several minutes longer but I don't really notice.
My Ashford definitely deposits a lot more in my chimney than my hearthstone ever did...Doing it a few times a year.
Looks like I got back the time I wasted on top-down starts. ;) I look mid-winter but have only been brushing once a year. But some might be more concerned with creo than I am..I get about 1.5 qts. when I brush. Most is at the top so I don't worry about it much.
 
No matter how many times I say this, it still goes un-understood by some; If it's not cold out, I burn half a load of medium-output wood in my 1.5 cu.ft. stove. My house doesn't vary more than a couple (2) degrees over the next 24 hrs, even though I haven't made any effort to burn particularly low, and our log house has some air leaks and no wall insulation.
It’s not that we don’t understand, Woody. It’s just that you’re making wrong assumptions, and we sometimes choose not to argue with you.

Your heat loss is very low, if the temp drops only 2 degrees per day, even in shoulder season. We are closer to 2 degrees per hour loss when the fire is out, in typical shoulder-season weather that would have us using a stove.

Our house is pretty tight, but our stone walls hold around 53F most of the year. So, when the stove goes out the interior temp heads toward 53F real fast, to the tune of a few degrees per hour.

This makes our heat load high compared to framed construction when it’s not very cold out, but I suspect we burn less fuel than others when it gets blistering cold out, and our cooling costs are extremely low for out square footage in this climate.
 
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No matter how many times I say this, it still goes un-understood by some; If it's not cold out, I burn half a load of medium-output wood in my 1.5 cu.ft. stove. My house doesn't vary more than a couple (2) degrees over the next 24 hrs, even though I haven't made any effort to burn particularly low, and our log house has some air leaks and no wall insulation. So why would I need a super-low burn? To make sure the room temp only changes one degree? That's way down the list of what I need from a stove. Not even on the list, in fact. Besides, there have been a number of BK owners are reporting here that they can't turn their stoves down very low anyway, without gunking their chimneys or smelling smoke.
I thought you have a cat stove. I didn't Know You have a tube stove. Well when it is okay to do small load cause including BK manual recommend that in case you overheating your house/space, you can do small loads. Why to go thru of that hassle doing small load when you can fill it up and keep it on low. If a house stay warm with a small load that give out all those BTU in 3hrs and stay warm for the whole day, it will do the same with the same load if burn slower. I know you said ( if is warm outside). Then what is the advantage of having a cat stove?
Those cases of smoke and can't burn low are just a few. Some have been fixed with door gaskets, adding a couple of ft to the chimney, etc.
Sometimes is the setup that is way different of what manufacture recommend.
Remember, thousands of vehicle of the same year, model, etc are sold every year. Some customers file a Lemon law, but are just an small percentage. The same happens with any product.
 
I will say I just hooked up a quick temp oak to it today I will report if it makes much difference
 
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Everyone has a shoulder season 2X a year. The burning season where I live has my Ashford at low or very low burn most of the time. None of my old non cats would burn anywhere near as low as that of the Ashford. After a lot of years of dealing with my neighbors smoke, I invited him over to show him how a BK operates and he loved it. Black box wood gassifier I called it. Soon, he had a nice new Princess. At the end of the burning last year he said it saved him 25-30% in wood and -oh yes- just heat waves for most all of the burn. I did not get a chance to convert my other neighbor as he gave up on burning those compressed sawdust logs due to age and went propane. Those logs can smoke and stink in a crummy stove throttled down.

Sometimes the wind does not blow and a little smoke can fill the area and I do like to take pride in being a clean burner, not being the jerk that fills the region with blue smog.

In colder climates air tubes make sense but not for much of the U.S. and not here in Nevada City at the 2,500 foot level. 58F today.

I strongly suspect in the future some newbie stove buyers are going to be disappointed when their stove can't be turned down much. Stories about the good old pre EPA days will appear. Anybody for a EPA hole plug mod?
 
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You guys do realize not all cat stoves meet 2020 yet right?
 
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Everyone has a shoulder season 2X a year. The burning season where I live has my Ashford at low or very low burn most of the time. None of my old non cats would burn anywhere near as low as that of the Ashford. After a lot of years of dealing with my neighbors smoke, I invited him over to show him how a BK operates and he loved it. Black box wood gassifier I called it. Soon, he had a nice new Princess. At the end of the burning last year he said it saved him 25-30% in wood and -oh yes- just heat waves for most all of the burn. I did not get a chance to convert my other neighbor as he gave up on burning those compressed sawdust logs due to age and went propane. Those logs can smoke and stink in a crummy stove throttled down.

Sometimes the wind does not blow and a little smoke can fill the area and I do like to take pride in being a clean burner, not being the jerk that fills the region with blue smog.

In colder climates air tubes make sense but not for much of the U.S. and not here in Nevada City at the 2,500 foot level. 58F today.

I strongly suspect in the future some newbie stove buyers are going to be disappointed when their stove can't be turned down much. Stories about the good old pre EPA days will appear. Anybody for a EPA hole plug mod?
Again no one has ever claimed non cats will run as low as cats. Just that running low doesn't matter very much to some of us. In your climate clearly it would
 
Speculation:

The secondary burn in air tube stoves ceases somewhere just below "medium burn". The 1,000F burn zone must exist or particulates will go way up. The air control damper EPA hole will need limit the minimum firing rate to a level maintaining the secondary burn function to meet the May 2020 2 gph particulate rate. A BK stove's particulates become fewer down to very low burn. Nicely, the cat provides it's own heat to enable the very low burn and meet/exceed the 2 gph requirement.

I have always maintained air tubers become smoke dragons below a certain firing rate. Unless the air tube stove manufacturers come up with a slick trick low burn will be a thing of the smoky past.

Where am I going wrong here? Any flaws in my logic?

https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...ary-requirements-woodstoves-and-pellet-stoves

So 2 gph is the 2020 rate? Big f’n deal, my noncat already burns that clean but oddly my bk princess does not!

Unless there’s more to the new regs than just 2 gph then I foresee no change at all to to the new stoves except the especially dirty models of both technologies going away.
 
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Again no one has ever claimed non cats will run as low as cats. Just that running low doesn't matter very much to some of us. In your climate clearly it would

Yes, I agree, also most stoves spend 80% of their time at medium or low burn. See article below.

In a wood stove crowded area prone to smoke trapping, a cat stove is the only one that makes sense -to me- as the cat not only eats particulates but a whole host of other bad things too. These "bad" things are rarely talked about.

Shameless plug for BKVP:
http://www.chimneysweepnews.com/Combustors.htm
 
Yes, I agree.

In a wood stove crowded area prone to smoke trapping, a cat stove is the only one that makes sense -to me- as the cat not only eats particulates but a whole host of other bad things too. These "bad" things are rarely talked about.

Shameless plug for BKVP:
http://www.chimneysweepnews.com/Combustors.htm
I see more smoke from the bk than i ever did the regency. It still is not much at all but more without a doubt. You do realize there are tube stoves that burn cleaner than sime bks right?
 
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Your heat loss is very low, if the temp drops only 2 degrees per day, even in shoulder season. We are closer to 2 degrees per hour loss when the fire is out,
No, over the course burn cycle, not when the stove is out. So the temp will rise a couple degrees after the half-load burn, then fall a couple. The coals last a while so the heat cycle is a pretty long time, obviously. Maybe the little bit of soapstone, or the thermal-mass 1" wall covering smooths the temp swing out a bit, but I've noticed pretty much the same situation at my BIL's 1500 sq.ft. stick-construction house with the Fireview in it. Not a big swing over the course of a day in mild weather when he lets the stove burn out.
If a house stay warm with a small load that give out all those BTU in 3hrs and stay warm for the whole day, it will do the same with the same load if burn slower.
That's my point, you can do it either way and the house temp won't vary much in mild weather, so the slow burn isn't really needed. I'm pretty sure I could do it just as well with a tube stove in that weather. The cat is an advantage to me when burning full loads in colder weather, where it will smooth out the heat curve and not roast us out at the beginning. But with a tube stove, there are ways around that, with a jacketed stove or a couple partial loads if you want. If you're gone all day, roasting out the stove room a little isn't even a problem for the daytime burn.
 
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I see more smoke from the bk than i ever did the regency. It still is not much at all but more without a doubt. You do realize there are tube stoves that burn cleaner than sime bks right?

While still a cat but tube stove (hybrid) my rockport looks cleaner out the stack too.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
 
You do realize there are tube stoves that burn cleaner than sime bks right?

Yes, just not at the low burn rate a BK can attain. As the burn rate is increased, some air tubers do burn better.

I guess what I am trying to say is no air tube stove has the turn-down ratio of a BK. A BK can can burn lower than the flue stack minimum BTU required to prevent condensing. That is remarkable and as a long time burner is always amazing.
 
I just don't buy that the super-low burn would be of much use to me. Some of you seem to see it differently, which is fine as long as you understand that others may not.
 
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I see more smoke from the bk than i ever did the regency. It still is not much at all but more without a doubt. You do realize there are tube stoves that burn cleaner than sime bks right?

I would never put “clean burning” as a benefit of a cat stove. Not in gph ratings, flue accumulation, or smokeless burning. All of the modern stoves are epa certified and clean enough. The primary performance advantage of the cat stove for me is the wide range of available outputs.

It’s a shame/disgrace/demonstration of incompetence when a cat stove manufacturer releases a cat stove that is unable to provide that wide range of outputs. Without that, you might as well burn a noncat.

Maybe, the tighter emissions regs will force more companies to apply slightly more modern technologies that improve both emissions and burn rate control. Kuuma wood furnaces are noncats that used some electronics to do this.
 
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I see both sides of the non-cat vs cat issue. If I want a quick blast of heat in the morning on a warmer sunny day were no more heat will be needed until night, I fire up the Alderlea. It will get to a state of clean burning (< 5 minutes) much quicker than my BK from a cold start. On the other hand, if heat is needed throughout the day , the BK shines with its steady heat output and set it and forget it operation.
 
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