2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[Alpine1]

Obviously, my post didn’t imply that having a flame shield can save you from cleaning the chimney or allow to burn wet wood! But I still think it could be a nice addition, just in case.

 

[jetsam]

Come on now, it only takes a thin film to provide fuel for a chimney fire. Your flue right now almost certainly has enough creosote for a chimney fire if you shot enough fire at the right spot.

Agreed, but that's at the top, not down by the stove.

If your friend's flue took light and shot a pillar of fire into the sky, and they came to you for help- Would you blame the stove, or would you take a hard look at his burning practices and sweeping schedule?

 

[begreen]

If your friend's flue took light and shot a pillar of fire into the sky, and they came to you for help- Would you blame the stove, or would you take a hard look at his burning practices and sweeping schedule?

Might be the stove, might be the flue setup, might be the wood, might be his burning practices. And it might be a combination of these. You have to consider all the factors. Some can be easily adjusted and others not so easily.

 

[jetsam]

I understand what you’re saying jetsam, but the gents who wear suspenders don’t usually throw away their belts.

Why don't we leave my weight out of this?

 

[jetsam]

Might be the stove, might be the flue setup, might be the wood, might be his burning practices. And it might be a combination of these. You have to consider all the factors. Some can be easily adjusted and others not so easily.

I am surprised that this is a point of disagreement.

What kind of scenario is it in which someone has a chimney fire, you investigate, and the end result is you recommending a different stove? I mean, I can see extreme cases like someone burning a homemade oil drum stove... but for modern stoves?

Or are you saying that when someone is absolutely fixed in their burning practices, sometimes changing the stove is easier than educating them?

I know people where that could be the case... ( "Earl, you are not able to grasp 'burn dry stuff and sweep once in a while', so here is your new fixed burn rate U.S. Stove....")

 

[Highbeam]

I am surprised that this is a point of disagreement.

What kind of scenario is it in which someone has a chimney fire, you investigate, and the end result is you recommending a different stove? I mean, I can see extreme cases like someone burning a homemade oil drum stove... but for modern stoves?

Or are you saying that when someone is absolutely fixed in their burning practices, sometimes changing the stove is easier than educating them?

I know people where that could be the case... ( "Earl, you are not able to grasp 'burn dry stuff and sweep once in a while', so here is your new fixed burn rate U.S. Stove....")

Certain stove designs create a higher risk for chimney fires. The operator can adapt his methods or change the stove to a safer design. It has nothing to do with how often the chimney is swept as even a single burn can deposit combustible stuff in the flue.

 

[jetsam]

Certain stove designs create a higher risk for chimney fires. The operator can adapt his methods or change the stove to a safer design. It has nothing to do with how often the chimney is swept as even a single burn can deposit combustible stuff in the flue.

I'll agree to that. Still though- what well-informed person is going to arrive at "I need to change my stove" before they arrive at "I need to change a behavior" ? :/

 

[bholler]

I am surprised that this is a point of disagreement.

What kind of scenario is it in which someone has a chimney fire, you investigate, and the end result is you recommending a different stove? I mean, I can see extreme cases like someone burning a homemade oil drum stove... but for modern stoves?

Or are you saying that when someone is absolutely fixed in their burning practices, sometimes changing the stove is easier than educating them?

I know people where that could be the case... ( "Earl, you are not able to grasp 'burn dry stuff and sweep once in a while', so here is your new fixed burn rate U.S. Stove....")

We recommend changing the stove pretty often. Usually when the stove is drastically oversized for the house.

And I can say after burning a regency and a bk of similar size setup exactly the same that the bk in my case puts way more creosote in the chimney which clearly increases the risk of chimney fire.

 

[Highbeam]

I'll agree to that. Still though- what well-informed person is going to arrive at "I need to change my stove" before they arrive at "I need to change a behavior" ? :/

Not me, but I did just have a mild chimney fire a few weeks ago after 6 years of burning my princess despite a flue cleaning before the season started. Even when you think you know what you're doing, some designs are just riskier. I've taken extra operational steps to reduce the likelihood even more.

My flue already contains enough new soot to do it again! It's not just the gooey tar that can burn, it's the other stuff too.

I'm not sure if people even realize when they have a mild chimney fire. They can be catastrophic or barely noticeable.

 

[bholler]

Not me, but I did just have a mild chimney fire a few weeks ago after 6 years of burning my princess despite a flue cleaning before the season started. Even when you think you know what you're doing, some designs are just riskier. I've taken extra operational steps to reduce the likelihood even more.

My flue already contains enough new soot to do it again! It's not just the gooey tar that can burn, it's the other stuff too.

I'm not sure if people even realize when they have a mild chimney fire. They can be catastrophic or barely noticeable.

Well said.

 

[begreen]

I'll agree to that. Still though- what well-informed person is going to arrive at "I need to change my stove" before they arrive at "I need to change a behavior" ? :/

When the installation itself creates problems that are beyond changing behavior unless that includes not burning. For example, installing too large a stove that has to idle most of the time or leaks smoke smell.

 

[Marshy]

I'll agree to that. Still though- what well-informed person is going to arrive at "I need to change my stove" before they arrive at "I need to change a behavior" ? :/

I arrived at that conclusion. It was either change my stove or tear down my masonry chimney and install an insulated flue to retain enough flue gas heat to prevent creosote formation. I suppose I could have tried burning kiln dried wood to see if <15% moisture would preclude creosote formation but that didnt seem like a practical behavioral change.

 

[tarzan]

Its a hand held meter that has a hose and metal tube probe, you drill a hole in the pipe and stick the metal probe end in about 3"

I believe pitot tube is the proper name for the metal tube probe.

 

[lsucet]

I love my stoves ( nothing new there) but i never feel at easy when in bypass starting a load. That why my goal with the fire is bring to temp the cat and not the flue. Once the cat hits its light off and bypass is shut the flue climb real quick. On reloads if it is in the active zone of course no problem. Everything will be shutdown instantly except air. If cat is inactive, I rake everything to the front to be sure the fire will be starting right at front under the cat and again, bringing the cat to temp as quick as i can regardless flue temp. If the flames want to go crazy all over like it happens sometimes, I close the air till the point that the flames slow down. when cat gets to temp, close bypass and go back to high burn for awhile.

It is scary those flames going thru the bypass up the flue.

 

[kf6hap]

I too have thought of flue fires a lot. My burning procedure seems to-mostly-eliminate any flame going up the stack.

1 Stuff the box completely full, N/S fashion so ends are showing. Pull the bottom logs so they are touching the front bricks and all others align straight up so a flat "wall" of ends is presenting.
2 Place a little wax starter near the bottom in the middle. Squirt it with a little naphtha, ignite and leave the door ajar.
3 When the flue hits 200F, close the door so the airwash feeds the front of the fire near the glass. This avoids pushing the flames deep in where they can reach the bypass opening.
4 If a lot of flames are licking up at the cat and the flue is 200 the bypass gets rolled over. If not I wait until the flue hits 300, then roll the bypass shut. The flue suction pulls the flames into the cat area and the cat glows red instantly. INSTANTLY!

Reloads are easier as the cat is already active. Wood must be very near the cat to so a lot of flames are licking up at the cat.

I never use the cat thermometer as it delays the bypass rollover way past the flames shooting up the flue point. Your bypass rollover flue temp might be different. It is experimental.

Every load is well "charred" for 15-20 minutes. The minimum firing rate is governed by flue temp to prevent any steam condensing and forming gookosote.

Works for me.

 

[Highbeam]

Gookosote!?

I’m pretty sure I know what you mean.

What really happens if you close the bypass too soon? The fire will eventually get hot enough for the cat to go active. Then the 1500 degree car ought to self clean. Car cats are never bypassed.

I’ve really been enjoying the ultra long burn times from large splits of dense Doug fir that are not only well seasoned but new for this year are especially dry from being in a shed vs. top covered in the rain. Sheds are superior for keeping wood dry. Dry wood is much more able to sustain a clean plume and active cat at low burn rates. So it seems.

 

[showrguy]

I'm gonna call my insurance co. Tomorrow, just to tell em I had a chimney fire because I got a BK stove ???
Who started this nonsence ??
And why is it being gang influenced ??
Burn your damn stove the way it's supposed to be run, and have a nice day... Sheeseesh....I'm out...

 

[lsucet]

Then the 1500 degree car ought to self clean. Car cats are never bypassed.

But remember that when is true
that they are not bypassed, computers command the system on an open loop that is programmed to give a good stoichoimetric ratio that the system can take without damaging anything. That is the reason that back in the days when carburators was all, we have many many issues with catalyst converter. Too much crappy mixture going thru it. More when cold. I assume that the cat on this stoves can suffer the same if we put constantly to much crap on it before light off temperature. Remember is hard to control the amount of crap from the wood for a good mixture at initial startup.

 

[kf6hap]

Yes, the fuel air ratio does swing widely in any wood stove. Stoves will smoke at start-up until the cat becomes fully activated. At times even a fully activated cat can't eat all the particulates and smoke still persists. Things that glow do tend to self clean or a cat might last only one season, then require acid cleaning. I am on season 3 with only brushing the front surface and the cat appears to be very active hitting 1 o'clock easily.

In 2020 air tube stoves with nil turn down ratios will make BKs extremely attractive. Also, I won't buy a wood stove that uses a microprocessor. Russian hackers and all that.

 

[begreen]

In 2020 air tube stoves with nil turn down ratios will make BKs extremely attractive.

Speculation or is there evidence to support this?

Also, I won't buy a wood stove that uses a microprocessor. Russian hackers and all that.

The stove does not need to be connected to a network. If desired for monitoring it does not have to be to a public one like the internet, some might even use bluetooth.

 

[kennyp2339]

The stove does not need to be connected to a network. If desired for monitoring it does not have to be to a public one like the internet, some might even use bluetooth.

"puts away tin foil hat"

 

[tarzan]

Also, I won't buy a wood stove that uses a microprocessor. Russian hackers and all that.

Few things are scarier than the thought of a Russian hacker turning my stove down in the middle of a cold winter night.

 

[kf6hap]

Speculation:

The secondary burn in air tube stoves ceases somewhere just below "medium burn". The 1,000F burn zone must exist or particulates will go way up. The air control damper EPA hole will need limit the minimum firing rate to a level maintaining the secondary burn function to meet the May 2020 2 gph particulate rate. A BK stove's particulates become fewer down to very low burn. Nicely, the cat provides it's own heat to enable the very low burn and meet/exceed the 2 gph requirement.

I have always maintained air tubers become smoke dragons below a certain firing rate. Unless the air tube stove manufacturers come up with a slick trick low burn will be a thing of the smoky past.

Where am I going wrong here? Any flaws in my logic?

https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...ary-requirements-woodstoves-and-pellet-stoves

 

[bholler]

Speculation:

The secondary burn in air tube stoves ceases somewhere just below "medium burn". The 1,000F burn zone must exist or particulates will go way up. The air control damper EPA hole will need limit the minimum firing rate to a level maintaining the secondary burn function to meet the May 2020 2 gph particulate rate. A BK stove's particulates become fewer down to very low burn. Nicely, the cat provides it's own heat to enable the very low burn and meet/exceed the 2 gph requirement.

I have always maintained air tubers become smoke dragons below a certain firing rate. Unless the air tube stove manufacturers come up with a slick trick low burn will be a thing of the smoky past.

Where am I going wrong here? Any flaws in my logic?

https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...ary-requirements-woodstoves-and-pellet-stoves

Then why are there already tube stoves that meet the 2020 requirements and run the same as many others? No of course they don't shut down as low as cat stoves but many people don't need a stove that runs that low.

 

[Ashful]

...but many people don't need a stove that runs that low.

I still don’t understand this statement, bholler. I see two issues with it:

1. There will always be days, in every house that is ever built, when you need just a “little” heat. Yes, I guess you could build small fires throughout the day, to pump and glide. But what about those who are away from the house long stretches, or who want to sleep through the night? It would be quite an exercise to pump the house up to just the right temperature on a small hot load in the morning, to arrive at your desired temperature when you return from work at the end of the day.

2. The ability to run low just means you can go bigger on the fuel tank, for any required heat load. The greater turn down can mean a much bigger stove for a given heat requirement.

I’m not saying there is no disadvantage to the cat stove, I’m just saying that I don’t understand how you can claim there’s people heating with wood stoves that can’t make some use of a wider range of output.

I’m also not saying non-cats can’t work, obviously many people are doing it. I’d just rather cruise low and slow, than play pump and glide games, particularly in a house with more rapid heat loss.