2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[lsucet]

I thought what we are controlling is the flow rate with the damper regardless we are measuring pressure. Cause is a passive system it will get to a balance with same pressure on both sides of the damper. If something I will assume that the highest pressure will be in the firebox side cause of the highest temps. Maybe i am wrong and I will test it soon.

 

[ratsrepus]

Your stove did not overfire based on those meters. Your mistake is reading the stove top right on top of a 1500 degree catalyst and expecting a particular temperature. There is no value in reading stove top temperature of your stove. Your next mistake is “reading” the cat meter and trying to assume the reading is valid for anything other than when to engage the cat. More current models simply have an active/inactive idiot light. Finally, your fans didn’t fix the problem but just blew on the springs of those thermometers which artificially lowers the readings. The readings that are worthless in the first place.

It is possible to overfire a bk if your draft is out of spec, gaskets failed, equipment failure, or even a chimney fire but you’ll never know with those two gauges.

What highbeam said, believe it

 

[chemie]

I am feeling that I may have overdraft issue, too but if I am not mistaken it requires more sophisticated install to place a damper for an insert? Anyone did it and saw an improvement for their Bk insert’s performance.
Another question I have is that, I’ve been cutting fallen dead black locust trees. I assume they have been on the ground over 5 years. I will use them next year.When I split them, should I split them big like over 6 inches diameter to get the most out of them or with BK the size doesn’t matter much?
If I am not mistaken Kenny mentioned 3 years ago in another post that he would try bigger diameter to see if there would be any improvement/yield.

 

[shoot-straight]

My dealer (no longer in business) swears by barometric dampers. In theory they should work perfectly, but I don't think they are allowed by code.

 

[kf6hap]

They work for gas fired, clean burning equipment. On a wood stove they will cause condensate. God help you if you had a chimney fire as it would swing wide open and feed the raging inferno.

 

[jatoxico]

I’ve been cutting fallen dead black locust trees. I assume they have been on the ground over 5 years. I will use them next year.When I split them, should I split them big like over 6 inches diameter to get the most out of them or with BK the size doesn’t matter much?

I burn a lot of BL and it is not a very fast drying wood in my experience. My first year I was burning 18 mo CSS locust and it wasn't an ideal situation. So unless you have exceptional drying conditions and if you want to use that wood next year I wouldn't go overboard on split size. As you said split a little smaller and let the stove modulate.

 

[BKVP]

I modified my rain cap 20 years ago. I cut and extended the length of all 4 vertical supports. No excess back pressure....

 

[lsucet]

I modified my rain cap 20 years ago. I cut and extended the length of all 4 vertical supports. No excess back pressure....

Now, can we apply the the theory of more flow less pressure? Cause it is fix at the end/exit?

 

[BKVP]

Now, can we apply the the theory of more flow less pressure? Cause it is fix at the end/exit?

Well, I'm certain run length, which I also changed, could have had an effect. I hated the spark screen...

 

[chemie]

I burn a lot of BL and it is not a very fast drying wood in my experience. My first year I was burning 18 mo CSS locust and it wasn't an ideal situation. So unless you have exceptional drying conditions and if you want to use that wood next year I wouldn't go overboard on split size. As you said split a little smaller and let the stove modulate.

I live on the Long Island border so we have similar climate. I rely on the current MC of the Locust I am cutting. As I said the trees have been down at least five years lost all of their barks already. They are mostly below %30. So I am hoping they go down below %20 in a year. Am I too optimistic? Also does it make a big difference having big splits ( 6” and above vs average to small splits with a BK?

 

[kennyp2339]

Fully loaded firebox running at high for 20 min, measuring the fire with the collar damper fully opened

 

[kennyp2339]

Damper closed - notice the zeros, taken from the cat probe, 32 deg outside, no wind
FYI. I took the measurement 3 times, thought the meter broke, turned the damper back to open and got a .10, closed it again and got zeros.

 

[jatoxico]

I live on the Long Island border so we have similar climate. I rely on the current MC of the Locust I am cutting. As I said the trees have been down at least five years lost all of their barks already. They are mostly below %30. So I am hoping they go down below %20 in a year. Am I too optimistic? Also does it make a big difference having big splits ( 6” and above vs average to small splits with a BK?

Stuff in the round hasn't dried much if at all. Admittedly my stacking could have been better that first year but nevertheless I was unable to get it down to below 20%. A great deal of it was 23-25% and a little more.

You got what you got so I suggest stack in single rows in the sunniest, windiest spot you can manage and split on the medium to small side. Top cover if you can.

 

[Highbeam]

Damper closed - notice the zeros, taken from the cat probe, 32 deg outside, no wind
FYI. I took the measurement 3 times, thought the meter broke, turned the damper back to open and got a .10, closed it again and got zeros.

So do you think at half open you could get 0.05 in the firebox? Lots of people run these dampers part closed. I wonder if there’s enough room to drill a hole in the adapter/damper section under the damper but above the stove collar but still allow the damper to rotate? Because you’re going to want to put your cat meter back.

 

[jetsam]

My dealer (no longer in business) swears by barometric dampers. In theory they should work perfectly, but I don't think they are allowed by code.

They're a bad idea for woodstoves because they work by admitting cold air directly into the flue. Hello, creosote.

 

[lsucet]

They're a bad idea for woodstoves because they work by admitting cold air directly into the flue. Hello, creosote.

Ok it is not clear what to think.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/creosote-zmaz82mazglo

 

[jetsam]

Ok it is not clear what to think.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/creosote-zmaz82mazglo

It's pretty clear. Think about how it works.

We burn the stove at a given temperature with s given draft, and the flue is at a given temperature.

Now we add a barometric damper. Two choices exist: 1) Draft is below the damper's setting; damper is fully closed. No difference. 2) Draft is above the setting. The damper opens by some amount. Draft is reduced, stove burns cooler, flue gets cooler. Cold air goes directly into the flue, cooling the flue even more.

When draft increases above the barometric damper's setting, you are cooling the flue in two ways. LESS creosote? Not likely.

 

[maple1]

It's pretty clear. Think about how it works.

We burn the stove at a given temperature with s given draft, and the flue is at a given temperature.

Now we add a barometric damper. Two choices exist: 1) Draft is below the damper's setting; damper is fully closed. No difference. 2) Draft is above the setting. The damper opens by some amount. Draft is reduced, stove burns cooler, flue gets cooler. Cold air goes directly into the flue, cooling the flue even more.

When draft increases above the barometric damper's setting, you are cooling the flue in two ways. LESS creosote? Not likely.

If it is adjusted properly though, it won't reduce draft below the point where it messes up combustion efficiency. Your baseline draft should be the draft minimum spec'd by the stove manufacturer.

 

[chazcarr]

Well for me it seems that what I have here is a sticky stat. I did what the first post recommended in this thread and it worked. Basically the flapper is getting stuck somewhere during the turn down. Giving the knob a smack makes it finally close.

Runs great once that is done. How can I fix the stickiness is now the question.

 

[jetsam]

If it is adjusted properly though, it won't reduce draft below the point where it messes up combustion efficiency. Your baseline draft should be the draft minimum spec'd by the stove manufacturer.

No matter how it's adjusted, any time it opens by any amount, you are cooling the flue, both directly and indirectly. That is exactly why you see key dampers but not barometric dampers on wood stoves.

Don't forget that the test isucet linked was done on Fishers, not modern stoves with secondary combustion

 

[kennyp2339]

So do you think at half open you could get 0.05 in the firebox? Lots of people run these dampers part closed. I wonder if there’s enough room to drill a hole in the adapter/damper section under the damper but above the stove collar but still allow the damper to rotate? Because you’re going to want to put your cat meter back.

I've been playing with this since I put it on Saturday, luckily I've had some different weather conditions while using the damper, Had high winds, temps in the low 40's to no wind & temps in the lower 20's to now a rain storm developing later today.
I'm fairly confident that I can adjust the damper without the meter and be good to go, yes when its either very windy or very cold the damper will be turned all the way shut, when its normal winter or a little more warmer out it will be kept partially open, plus it takes no time to check the draft with the meter.
I will also go with what the fire box looks like and more importantly what the chimney cap is doing. I should have very little if any smoke coming out the stack while burning low and medium.
Since putting the damper in place I have noticed more complete burns with a hotter stove at the end of the cycle, the cat probe has settled into a higher setting and smoke coming out of the stack has be reduced (not that it was ever bad)
So far I'm very satisfied with this but I'm also still in the testing phase, btw I'm burning 14-15% oak, ash & cherry.

 

[maple1]

No matter how it's adjusted, any time it opens by any amount, you are cooling the flue, both directly and indirectly. That is exactly why you see key dampers but not barometric dampers on wood stoves.

Don't forget that the test isucet linked was done on Fishers, not modern stoves with secondary combustion

Yes, I realize that. I was speaking only on it dropping draft down below the point where it messes up combustion efficiency. I.e., it should 'only' cool the flue in one way. If adjusted right.

That test was also the first time I have seen barometric dampers being claimed as or referred to as creosote reducing devices. Was a new one to me. Their stated results also were rather surprising. Maybe it did create enough added flue gas velocity that some of what would have condensed, instead got blown out the chimney? But I don't think they did any actual measuring of draft at any point either - so their baseline setups could have been tuned (accidentally or otherwise) for maximum creosote production. And sounded like there was quite a bit of manual intervention that I couldn't clearly understand. All apples & oranges, given the stoves used there & the ones of this thread.

I used a baro on my old smoke dragon wood boiler. I had to, otherwise varying winds would have sucked even more of my heat up my pipe than was normally going up. It would make creosote, but usually around the baro opening. Dry flaky stuff that was easily removed thru the opening. But that whole setup was a creosote generator if you tried to run it to get any kind of heat out of it. Still shake my head over how much wood I wasted & sleep I lost over the life of it...

 

[kf6hap]

Because you’re going to want to put your cat meter back.

A different way to access the firebox is to drill and tap a hole in the ash plug and screw in a 1/4" copper pipe compression fitting and snake the tube to where you want it for access. Place a small piece of non-galvanized metal over the hole to prevent blockage. Not necessary short term. Of course the ash plug can't be removed. I don't use the ash pan so no biggie. Later on this can be removed and a bolt screwed in to plug the hole.

This is what I did while analyzing the smoke smell issue. I did find that the firebox, the bottom of the stove pipe and the cat hole are the same pressure +/- .001 WC.

I do run the stove start to finish by the flue thermometer and never use the cat thermometer. Rollover bypass at ~350 and keep the flue above ~275 to prevent creosote. Operated this way, the cat thermometer can be left out indefinitely.

 

[lsucet]

I used a baro on my old smoke dragon wood boiler. I had to, otherwise varying winds would have sucked even more of my heat up my pipe than was normally going up. It would make creosote, but usually around the baro opening. Dry flaky stuff that was easily removed thru the opening. But that whole setup was a creosote generator if you tried to run it to get any kind of heat out of it. Still shake my head over how much wood I wasted & sleep I lost over the life of it...

I did use one with one of my previous stoves for testing purpose. Around 2 weeks or so if i remember correctly. was the best way of controlling the overdraft i was having. I cleaned the chimney before and after. the creosote was dry dry dry and like tan/brown color and just a little layer around the T-connection.( powder )
I didn't like how it gets air from inside the house. and for sure is not a good looking deal. I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SAYING THAT IS OK TO USE IT OR SHOULD BE USE. Before somebody jump into conclusions.

That creosote creation was not what i experienced. Sorry but is the reality. It has the same effect that when is cold and you leave the door open. The humidity/moisture drop inside your house. So is the creosote in there. Dry Dry Dry.

 

[maple1]

I don't think there is a correlation between the type of creosote, and humidity in the air.