2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[chazcarr]

You can switch to a steel cat to fix the cat problem, but you'll still have issues trying to use the stove's low range.

Do you have pictures of the fireplace pre-install? That might help determine if a damper is an option. I think bholler and webby have both installed insert dampers.

If a damper isn't practical, maybe a restrictor plate is an option.

If you get the draft sorted, you will be glad in shoulder season.

Well I would like to try a damper. But I don't want to make holes in the wall, especially right now in winter.

What, and where would a restrictor plate go? Only heard of those on race cars.

My wood is between 16-19% using the General Moisture Meter.

 

[chazcarr]

BK specs 0.06”WC maximum draft. My 24’ of insulated liner with 6’ double wall pipe (30’ total) pulled 3x that, at 0.18”WC, and you’re at least 10% taller than me. You need a key damper, or even possibly two key dampers. Your starting point is a manometer, I recommend the magnehelic type, with a 0.25”WC range.

You have a link to that manometer? I cannot find a probe that is safe for flue temps

 

[kennyp2339]

I own one too. Removed it to replace it with a nondamper version. It fits fine and tight. Hopefully you’ve already removed the weld blob in the collar.

Thankyou, that will be grinded out, just burning some coals down 1st.

 

[Highbeam]

Thankyou, that will be grinded out, just burning some coals down 1st.

This thing does a fine job.

 

[kf6hap]

For the number of hours a year I burn after 3 seasons of burning I figure season 4 should have a new cat. With my next cat, at the end of season 2 I figure an acid wash might be appropriate to keep the smoke down during season 3. My question is does anybody know if the acid wash will shorten the cats life so it will not survive season 3? Perhaps some of the active layer might be removed.

Just so everybody knows, the cat still lights off fast and has a nice low burn. It is just taking too long before the smoke clears out.

Pneumatic die grinders are very useful.

 

[jetsam]

For the number of hours a year I burn after 3 seasons of burning I figure season 4 should have a new cat. With my next cat, at the end of season 2 I figure an acid wash might be appropriate to keep the smoke down during season 3. My question is does anybody know if the acid wash will shorten the cats life so it will not survive season 3? Perhaps some of the active layer might be removed.

Not likely. It's an aluminum oxide washcoat, so full strength vinegar should still be too weak to do much of anything to it, and they suggest half strength vinegar. The idea is to get all the mineral deposits off so the catalyst can be exposed to air again.

My main takeaway from doing that was "Wow, I am glad I did this outside". (Link)

 

[Woody Stover]

... and what kind of doctor gives up on diagnosis so easily?

A doctor that's hiii. It's a joke, for gosh sake, don't take offence.

Those past threads say it all...it is obvious he struggled to get the Napoleon to work without smoke in the house as well.

The way I read it, he was at 14', had some smoke problems, added 2' and pretty much solved smoke roll-out.

After that, the lack of pics seal the deal here that it isn't the stove. He changed stoves for a reason...and that was to keep from making the required mods to his house to bring it up to date/make it safe to use. (pics would have unleashed the wrath and he knows it)

I agree, we needed pics. But that's quite the leap you are making, assuming that it isn't the stove, and that he didn't want to post pics. He might just be less comp-savvy than some, may not have a camera, whatever.

But hey..whatever. OK....so who's gonna be the first to tell us our stoves suck and keep this thread on track?

Sure, I can do that. It's the one thing you've said that I'm pretty sure of.

I have a high draft problem...I have 33 feet of insulated liner... Flames tend to start at the front of the stove and stay there going right up into the cat.
After I reload, I have to run at 50% stat for the initial burn up. If I stay at 100%, even with the fan on it will start to overheat. cat temp stays right at 1500 for many hours. Again, I think this is due to the draft? It is a BK Princess insert, so not so sure how something like that can be dampened.

Hopefully you have enough room to install a damper low in the liner, then run the a control rod through the face of the surround.
I wouldn't worry about the cracked cat; As long as it hasn't crumbled it will continue to work. I don't think the flame should get past that cat baffle/shield far enough to hurt the cat, but I've never seen that stove burn..
But why are you running the air at 50-100% open? Is your house more than the Princess can handle?
I like to run the cat where it's not glowing super-bright; I figure it may last a bit longer that way. If you have to run the air that far open though, you're not gonna have much choice, that cat is gonna be blazing.

Lastly, could my strong draft be the reason so much smoke is continually coming out of the chimney? It seems white and wispy as it should be, but there is a bit of a smell, and it is consistent. Probably smoke for about 2-3hours before no more is visible. Is that condensation from the long chimney?

It might be steam. It can carry a long way when it's humid out. And creo burning off in the box after a re-load can emit a smell, the cat doesn't catch all of that.
Yes, if you have the air open that far, some smoke can blow through the cat before it has time to be burned completely.

 

[rdust]

A doctor that's hiii. It's a joke, for gosh sake, don't take offence.
The way I read it, he was at 14', had some smoke problems, added 2' and pretty much solved smoke roll-out.
I agree, we needed pics. But that's quite the leap you are making, assuming that it isn't the stove, and that he didn't want to post pics. He might just be less comp-savvy than some, may not have a camera.

In this thread he said he had 27’ of chimney, he added on a lot to get to 27’. One of those posted where he was looking for flex he said his install was “awkward”. Another one it was thought it was an air cooled pipe(pictures were gone in the link so who knows).

He may have replaced the chimney since those posts but then “all” his past stoves wouldn't have been used on it.

IIRC I read that he was a professional photographer so I’m sure he has a camera.

In the end things just don’t add up. Hard to help figure out the issue when we’re provided only pieces of the story. Years ago I worked a tech support line for heavy duty diesel trucks and people on a regular basis would only provide the parts of the story they thought mattered. I used to tell the other support people the stories always evolve and it’s our job to help make them evolve by asking the right questions.

 

[begreen]

I recall the earlier 2008 thread and actually was surprised the only 2' of pipe added on to the 14' flue fixed the problem because this install is reported to be at 6,500'. Fast forward to now and adding another 11 ft? sounds dubious. Just bracing the chimney alone would be a serious task. Maybe the 27' was just a typo. If there is only 16 or 17' of flue total then draft may just not be sufficient due to the altitude and perhaps made worse by chimney location or terrain. Or maybe this is a different house?

Regardless, know that he really does have a Princess and that BK is working behind the scenes to resolve the issue if possible.

 

[MattInMass]

Long time lurker, first time posting. Trying to see if anyone has had he same issue in the past. Have had a Sirocco 30 free standing stove about 2 seasons under my belt so far. In the first year we had some issues with low draft. Have since resolved that issue. Last year I stated to see the cat thermometer temperatures dropping very quickly when turning down the stove. I assumed this was failure of the cat or stalling so would run hotter and eventually cleaned the cat and finally sent it back to the dealer for a replacement. The new cat seemed to have similar issues with he first few fires.

Last night I couldn’t keep the thermometer in the active zone and got frustrated. I went to the dealer and picked up a new thermometer and put it in. The pin shot way up into the high active zone and has stayed there.

Anyone else have a thermometer fail like that? Was questioning the cat, the stove, the flue, myself!

Thanks

 

[Ashful]

Long time lurker, first time posting. Trying to see if anyone has had he same issue in the past. Have had a Sirocco 30 free standing stove about 2 seasons under my belt so far. In the first year we had some issues with low draft. Have since resolved that issue. Last year I stated to see the cat thermometer temperatures dropping very quickly when turning down the stove. I assumed this was failure of the cat or stalling so would run hotter and eventually cleaned the cat and finally sent it back to the dealer for a replacement. The new cat seemed to have similar issues with he first few fires.

Last night I couldn’t keep the thermometer in the active zone and got frustrated. I went to the dealer and picked up a new thermometer and put it in. The pin shot way up into the high active zone and has stayed there.

Anyone else have a thermometer fail like that? Was questioning the cat, the stove, the flue, myself!

Thanks

Hah... great story! I was going through the usual thoughts of what it could be as I read your post, and was not ready for that surprise ending.

 

[MattInMass]

Hah... great story! I was going through the usual thoughts of what it could be as I read your post, and was no ready for that surprise ending.

It was not pretty. Almost had a stroke last night fighting the stove. Finally went to bed and let it run and when I woke up in the morning it was still running fine, though the thermometer was reading inactive. That’s when it hit me! Proper tools for the job I guess.

 

[webby3650]

It was not pretty. Almost had a stroke last night fighting the stove. Finally went to bed and let it run and when I woke up in the morning it was still running fine, though the thermometer was reading inactive. That’s when it hit me! Proper tools for the job I guess.

After 2 years of using the stove you didn’t notice that it was acting normal except the thermometer wasn’t moving? The thermometer is pretty slow to respond, I can tell by looking at the fire that all is well and the cat is ready to go.

 

[Ryan723]

It was still running fine, though the thermometer was reading inactive. That’s when it hit me! Proper tools for the job I guess.

This is one of the things I REALLY like about thermocouple probes. It’s very easy to see when you have a sensor issue.

Being able to swap the flue probe to the cat for a quick confirmation is helpful. Nearly instant read time is nice too.

 

[MattInMass]

After 2 years of using the stove you didn’t notice that it was acting normal except the thermometer wasn’t moving? The thermometer is pretty slow to respond, I can tell by looking at the fire that all is well and the cat is ready to go.

I was mostly running based on the cat being active or inactive. So having the stove drop off quickly was concerning which lead to checking the cat. I called The dealer multiple times, talked to BK directly about the cat temp dropping. The solution I thought was to run it hotter because of my concerns about draft issues, so I would not be able to tell that there was an issue. Still trying to get used to running this stove.

 

[MattInMass]

This is one of the things I REALLY like about thermocouple probes. It’s very easy to see when you have a sensor issue.

Being able to swap the flue probe to the cat for a quick confirmation is helpful. Nearly instant read time is nice too.

Will have to check out other options in the future.

 

[Ryan723]

How low for flue gas temp is too low?

With my new cat and adjusted bypass, i can go REALLY low without fully stalling the cat, which is great.

But it also means I've found my stack temperatures getting very low--well below creosote (and water) condensation point even within just the stovepipe a few feet above the collar.

My flue thermocouple is ~28" above the collar, and I'm seeing <200°F there while at the lowest parts of the BK thermostat cycling. It then cycles back to 250°-350°. The cat varies between 600° and 900°F.

Its burning great. My cap has a few crunchy bits but I just swept my 18 ft flue and had about 1/2 cup of fine flakes and soot.

Looking for input--would you consider this TOO low? Its not a problem to burn a little hotter, but on mild days, I don't NEED it.

Here's an example with 8 hrs of data about 12 hours into a moderate load that could go ~16-18:


Interestingly, as it starts to get into the coaling phase, it levels out quite a bit warmer.

 

[moresnow]

How low for flue gas temp is too low?

With my new cat and adjusted bypass, i can go REALLY low without fully stalling the cat, which is great.

But it also means I've found my stack temperatures getting very low--well below creosote (and water) condensation point even within just the stovepipe a few feet above the collar.

My flue thermocouple is ~28" above the collar, and I'm seeing <200°F there while at the lowest parts of the BK thermostat cycling. It then cycles back to 250°-350°. The cat varies between 600° and 900°F.

Its burning great. My cap has a few crunchy bits but I just swept my 18 ft flue and had about 1/2 cup of fine flakes and soot.

Looking for input--would you consider this TOO low? Its not a problem to burn a little hotter, but on mild days, I don't NEED it.

Here's an example with 8 hrs of data about 12 hours into a moderate load that could go ~16-18:
Link Removed

Interestingly, as it starts to get into the coaling phase, it levels out quite a bit warmer.

What are you using for data logging? The Cat line is surprising?

 

[Ryan723]

What are you using for data logging? The Cat line is surprising?

It is a home-made setup with a k-type thermocouple in the standard cat temp probe spot on the Ashford. Stack temp is a probe in ~midstream in the 6" stovepipe, ~28" above the collar.

Logging data via wifi to io.Adafruit.com for plotting and remote checking. I have a 'remote' display in the livingroom too. Details here if you're interested: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...h-wifi-remote-display-and-datalogging.170402/

That cycling between 600/700 and 900/1100 is normal for my cat when i turn it down lower for a long cruise.

It cycles less dramatically when run hotter and/or with my boxfan blowing harder across the stove.

Here's a 24-hr plot that shows more cycling from a different burn....

 

[chazcarr]

I only run at 50% open for 20 minutes as recommended by the manual.
Getting the damper in there is going to be a bit of a job I can tell. I also have to make a hole in the living room wall to get better circulation so I guess I will be making a lot of messes.

Anyways, I got a pic of the cat tonight and circled where it is cracking.


Thought I would also share my room temp report graph for the last 24 hours. Top line is the room with the stove in it. Seems to be running pretty long and smooth.


It goes through pine very fast. About 8 hours max. Oak goes for about 12-16 depending on the fan speed.

 

[rdust]

23 hours in I turned up the stat so I can reload at some point before bed.

 

[lsucet]

23 hours in I turned up the stat so I can reload at some point before bed.
View attachment 236871

View attachment 236872

That is unbeatable. 15 degrees here right now, expecting to drop about 6 over night and more snow. Snowing since yesterday. Both stove running on low with a load from last night. Reload time for what still in there will be around midnight. It is amazing to see how temps drop outside and the house hold steady the temp.

 

[claybe]

Will have to check out other options in the future.

Get a condor cat probe with NUMBERS!

 

[claybe]

I am a 3 reload schedule with the insert. Full before I go to bed, once in the late morning and a few logs in the evening to get to 10pm reload. Usually 8-12 hours each depending how I load it. Nothing better!

 

[showrguy]

I'm thinking of getting rid of my King, the damn thing is just boring !!
Can anyone recomend a stove I have to load every 6-8 hours ??
Thanks in advance !!