2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 3 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Somehow this doesn't seem to correlate with the manufacturer's 10,000 hr. expected lifespan.

Just guessing here, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but isn’t this exactly what BKVP was saying? They’re measuring combustors that are WAY beyond 10,000 hours, and still seeing only 1 gram/hour above spec.

 

[jetsam]

Just guessing here, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but isn’t this exactly what BKVP was saying? They’re measuring combustors that are WAY beyond 10,000 hours, and still seeing only 1 gram/hour above spec.

I'd like to know how closely reduced heat production correlates with increased particulates.

 

[Highbeam]

Just guessing here, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but isn’t this exactly what BKVP was saying? They’re measuring combustors that are WAY beyond 10,000 hours, and still seeing only 1 gram/hour above spec.

Cat failure may mean different things to different people. My princess already emits triple the gph that the newest stoves emit. At high burn rates, even a failed cat will work well enough to do the job plus or minus a gph.

We know our cats fail at around 10000 hours not just because visible emissions creep up but because the stove performance significantly degrades. Especially noticeable at low outputs.

There’s a reason the cat manufacturers only rate them for 10-12 thousand hours.

 

[becasunshine]

Somehow this doesn't seem to correlate with the manufacturer's 10,000 hr. expected lifespan. Say they burned 24/7 from November 1 to April 1 and went through the 3 cords during that period. That would come up to be 3,624 hrs./yr. or 2.76 yrs. to reach 10k hrs. 10 years would be 36,240 hours. What are people or the mfg. doing differently (incorrectly?) that they are only seeing about 10k hrs. from their cats?

Would love to see a discussion of these parameters, as this appears to most clearly mirror our current usage.

We have 2 winters of part time burns (weekends) on this stove with its original CAT, followed by a full time winter from the end of October into about mid to late April (we had a long, cold, wet spring last year) and now, this winter.

We burned about 2 cords last winter.<<-- Unofficial estimate, based solely on the footprint of our typical 4 cord loosely stacked wood pile, and that we ordered 2 cords to replenish in the spring. Given the epic burn at the beginning of January, I estimate that we are going to go through about 2.5 to 3 cords this year.

On the flip side, we used 24.9 gallons of propane from December 14 through January 25. We were gone for several days during that period in December during which the gas furnace carried the house (at a lowered thermostat setting.) That period obviously included the snow hurricane and subsequent very low temps. We use propane for cooking and to heat water in an on demand water heater.

So, I guess we'd qualify as full time stove burners who rely mostly on the stove... and by the above estimations, we can expect to replace our CAT sometime within the next couple of years. ???

We did lay eyes on our CAT recently to vacuum it out, after the Epic Burn in January. Looked OK, no char or creosote, covered with a fine gray/brown fly ash that we vacuumed off with the ash vacuum and a brush attachment.

We ordered a replacement ceramic CAT and some additional gasket (so we have the capacity to do the distilled water and vinegar soak, just to see if that works for us, if/when needed.) So we have back ups on the shelf, ready to go. (Thanks to you Peeps for your guidance in that area.)

 

[rdust]

There’s a reason the cat manufacturers only rate them for 10-12 thousand hours.

It’s been mentioned before that all cat stoves are not created equal. BK stoves seem to treat the cat better than other systems.

As jetsam mentioned I’d be interested in correlation data. I replaced mine due to the loss of performance, it wasn’t belching smoke from the chimney. If I was in an area that monitors like yours I may pay closer attention to the chimney.

 

[Highbeam]

It’s been mentioned before that all cat stoves are not created equal. BK stoves seem to treat the cat better than other systems.

As jetsam mentioned I’d be interested in correlation data. I replaced mine due to the loss of performance, it wasn’t belching smoke from the chimney. If I was in an area that monitors like yours I may pay closer attention to the chimney.

The Woodstock guys also seem to get two years or 10000. Potential buyers should be aware. The bk performs so well that we can be honest about this.

 

[BKVP]

Somehow this doesn't seem to correlate with the manufacturer's 10,000 hr. expected lifespan. Say they burned 24/7 from November 1 to April 1 and went through the 3 cords during that period. That would come up to be 3,624 hrs./yr. or 2.76 yrs. to reach 10k hrs. 10 years would be 36,240 hours. What are people or the mfg. doing differently (incorrectly?) that they are only seeing about 10k hrs. from their cats?

Their numbers have NOT changed in two decades. They sell combustors. Cat stoves have been vastly improved to provide greater longevity.

 

[allan5oh]

I noticed the princess ultra standalone has two layer of bricks on the bottom. Is this to meet emissions or is there another reason?

 

[Woody Stover]

the amount of plating is irrelevant if you do not increase the surface area. So, having palladium or platinum more than on the immediate surface does not help.

Are you talking about just the front "face of the cat" surface, or the total surface all the way through which includes the walls of each cell?
This Applied Ceramics cat seems to have, as Larry of the Three Stooges said, "walked through there on stilts." A bit of catalyst made it past the front face, down into the cells, but not a lot. And what's up with that bare spot..sprayer guy watching a hot secretary walk through the shop?

 

[Woody Stover]

I noticed the princess ultra standalone has two layer of bricks on the bottom. Is this to meet emissions or is there another reason?

I'd assume it's to keep more heat in the box and allow the stove to burn lower. I'm not a stove scientist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one night, many, many years ago.

 

[BKVP]

I noticed the princess ultra standalone has two layer of bricks on the bottom. Is this to meet emissions or is there another reason?

Firebox volume is part of the emissions formula, but we did it to accommodate an ash plug chute.

 

[Tar12]

Firebox volume is part of the emissions formula, but we did it to accommodate an ash plug chute.

So since I never use the plug I can pull the top layer out and gain some volume?

 

[BKVP]

Are you talking about just the front "face of the cat" surface, or the total surface all the way through which includes the walls of each cell?
This Applied Ceramics cat seems to have, as Larry of the Three Stooges said, "walked through there on stilts." A bit of catalyst made it past the front face, down into the cells, but not a lot. And what's up with that bare spot..sprayer guy watching a hot secretary walk through the shop?

View attachment 221996

Entire surface area. You cannot visually discern what is plated and what is not with the naked eye. You'd need an electron microscope. As for the different shading, that is a standard appearance often in combustors. The tea colored stain lacking does not translate to no washcoat or precious metals.

 

[BKVP]

So since I never use the plug I can pull the top layer out and gain some volume?

No manufacturer will support any modification to the stove as tested. That is a Federal Violation...and yes, they monitor these threads.

 

[ratsrepus]

Using the plug is a lot less mess and ash flying around. I think they are great

 

[Tar12]

Using the plug is a lot less mess and ash flying around. I think they are great

Double layer in the King as well?

 

[BKVP]

Let's discuss thermostat labels too. Someone the other day suggested this site needs a quick look up option...but I think I've added to this line of discussion several times in the past. How can we enable a link so folks can read about combustors, EPA, ash drawers, Holiday Inn Express (which was very funny) and other already addressed topics?

 

[ratsrepus]

Oh no, the wood stove police

No manufacturer will support any modification to the stove as tested. That is a Federal Violation...and yes, they monitor these threads.

 

[Ashful]

Using the plug is a lot less mess and ash flying around. I think they are great

Ditto. I don't know how you folks who like to shovel ashes into a bucket could possibly think that's better than using the plug, but to each their own...

 

[ratsrepus]

Oh no, the wood stove police

 

[Tar12]

Let's discuss thermostat labels too. Someone the other day suggested this site needs a quick look up option...but I think I've added to this line of discussion several times in the past. How can we enable a link so folks can read about combustors, EPA, ash drawers, Holiday Inn Express (which was very funny) and other already addressed topics?

That would be a excellent idea...I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[rdust]

The Woodstock guys also seem to get two years or 10000. Potential buyers should be aware. The bk performs so well that we can be honest about this.

Honestly I haven’t spent much time on their site. Do they state it will last 10 years or they warranty it for 10 years? I would expect the education of expected cat life to come from the dealer. “We typically see the cats last xxx amount of time if they aren’t abused. BK covers you with one freebie after the first one fails.”

 

[allan5oh]

Ditto. I don't know how you folks who like to shovel ashes into a bucket could possibly think that's better than using the plug, but to each their own...

I actually dont. But it's my parents place so they can do what they want. But if they don't use it and the second layer of bricks are just taking up volume why not delete the chute and gain the volume? I'm from Canada so the EPA can kiss my ass. Hey what's that black helicopter doing above my house?

What you're looking for mr. BKVP is a sticky/ thread with FAQ. Or maybe every time a mod creates a new BK thread they could paste some common answers in the first reply.

 

[kf6hap]

Perhaps an online Blaze King Bible complete with index would be advantageous. Updatable at will. A lot if raw information and operating nuances have been brought forth in these threads.

Index

Ch1. Congratulations you have just purchased the worlds finest wood furnace.
Ch2. How to burn. Don't throw that manual away just yet.
Ch3. Dealing with boredom. When psychotherapy is indicated.
Ch5. Gaskets, cats and all the other easy stuff.
Ch6. Secrets of the magic thermostatic controller.

...

 

[Tar12]

Ditto. I don't know how you folks who like to shovel ashes into a bucket could possibly think that's better than using the plug, but to each their own...

I use it on occasion during shoulder season when the stove burns way down..during the peak of the burning season I just find the bucket and shovel method quicker as the ash pan as supplied doesn't hold as much as needed when the stove is being pushed...its that simple for me.