2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[DuaeGuttae]

DuaeGuttae....I noticed your winter temps where you are currently located and I have to wonder why? Your need for heat seems to be very low to me...would a propane appliance not suffice for your needs? I understand that you moved from a environment where wood heat was a necessity and that you enjoyed that experience as do I but I have to question a real need for your current situation as I feel that even a BK dialed all the way back would be a bit much on most days for you....your winter temps are my shoulder season here and there are days that I have my Princess Ultra dialed down as far as she will go with out stalling out and I have to open doors...this doesn't happen very often but it does happen.This can be combatted some what by building small fires one time a day and letting them burn out....

I definitely understand your wondering, as we certainly wondered if we would even want a woodstove in this climate. As we are going through this winter, we are becoming convinced that the answer is that we will. We would like a stove as back up heat if the power goes out. (You know your electric service isn’t the most reliable when you get an apology letter from your provider for the many, many outages during the year.). We would like to get more use out of it than that, though, because we have been surprised to find ourselves chilly frequently in our home this year. Because of our mild climate, though, we are concerned about having the heat be too much (one reason for my asking about a BK20 series), and I do very much appreciate hearing from folks who deal with this.

If you wouldn’t mind sharing your square (or cubic) footage and under what circumstances (outside temps, solar gain) you find things overheating, I’d be grateful. We’re willing to spend the money on a Blaze King but don’t want to do so if it really wouldn’t benefit us.

 

[Highbeam]

Finally cleaned the ash out of my princess for the first time this year. A solid 2 cords of dry Doug fir firewood reduced to 1.5 ash pan loads or about 2” of ash in the belly. I definitely had some clean clinkers in there but had broken them up over the months.

Now I can get a whole lot more firewood in. Maybe 2-3 splits. The princess ultra has two layers of firebrick in the bottom so it seems to not need an insulating layer.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

You'll appreciate the convenience of the bigger box and bigger opening if you're not burning nice straight splits! I burn whatever hits the ground, including all the twisted dfir and cedar branches and some of the bigger stuff I can't split because it's too gnarly. We almost bought the Alderley T6 because of the large firebox and opening.

There’s nothing straight about any of the wood on our land. I think it’s just the species of live oak (Quercus fusiformis), but I also wonder if the constant wind gives it extra twists.

 

[Highbeam]

I definitely understand your wondering, as we certainly wondered if we would even want a woodstove in this climate. As we are going through this winter, we are becoming convinced that the answer is that we will. We would like a stove as back up heat if the power goes out. (You know your electric service isn’t the most reliable when you get an apology letter from your provider for the many, many outages during the year.). We would like to get more use out of it than that, though, because we have been surprised to find ourselves chilly frequently in our home this year. Because of our mild climate, though, we are concerned about having the heat be too much (one reason for my asking about a BK20 series), and I do very much appreciate hearing from folks who deal with this.

If you wouldn’t mind sharing your square (or cubic) footage and under what circumstances (outside temps, solar gain) you find things overheating, I’d be grateful. We’re willing to spend the money on a Blaze King but don’t want to do so if it really wouldn’t benefit us.

Did you notice that the bk 20 series actually makes MORE heat on low than the 30 series?

My bk princess is bigger than the 20 or the 30 and I use it for 100% of my heat. 1963 built 1700 sf in western Washington near the mountains. We burn at all outside temperatures. I’ve burned in 7 degree temps with wind up to 65 degree temps outside.

If you ever get too hot, let the fire go out or open a window. You can also select one of the low efficiency and short burn time noncat stoves for pleasure.

 

[becasunshine]

P

Did you notice that the bk 20 series actually makes MORE heat on low than the 30 series?

My bk princess is bigger than the 20 or the 30 and I use it for 100% of my heat. 1963 built 1700 sf in western Washington near the mountains. We burn at all outside temperatures. I’ve burned in 7 degree temps with wind up to 65 degree temps outside.

If you ever get too hot, let the fire go out or open a window. You can also select one of the low efficiency and short burn time noncat stoves for pleasure.

Princess is working like this for us now. Shoulder seasons, OK. Challenging winter with winds, OK. Open a window if necessary. <:3~

 

[DuaeGuttae]

When looking at the BK line up, loose the idea of small fire vs big fire, running a half load, running a full load. look at the website at the range of btu per hour output, take for instance the princess, running on low it will let out approx. 13,600 btu's per hour (unsure if that's with the blower or not) with a 88% efficiency and you can get a burn time of up to 24hrs, or if a severe cold snap comes in you can run the stove on high and get upwards of 41,000 btu's per hour for nearly 10hrs at the same 88% efficiency.
EPA tube stoves and other cat stoves you need to watch how you load, or you will be chasing the heat curve. These not so much

I’ve been studying those numbers, as well as trying to get an idea of what kind of BTU range would be desirable for us. The Blaze King numbers are actually looking very well matched to our estimates.

I’m thinking that in a climate like yours, fill it up, set the thermostat, and forget it might work. I’m thinking that in a climate like ours, though, I might still have to pay a bit more attention on how full to fill the firebox or whether I choose oak or cedar for a burn. Low and slow is good, but if I only want a 12 low burn instead of a 20 hour one, I can apply some of my non-cat knowledge to achieve it, right?

I hope it makes sense what I’m asking. Believe it or not, it’s allergy season here, and I’m starting to sneeze again!

 

[AlbergSteve]

I’ve been studying those numbers, as well as trying to get an idea of what kind of BTU range would be desirable for us. The Blaze King numbers are actually looking very well matched to our estimates.

I’m thinking that in a climate like yours, fill it up, set the thermostat, and forget it might work. I’m thinking that in a climate like ours, though, I might still have to pay a bit more attention on how full to fill the firebox or whether I choose oak or cedar for a burn. Low and slow is good, but if I only want a 12 low burn instead of a 20 hour one, I can apply some of my non-cat knowledge to achieve it, right?

I hope it makes sense what I’m asking. Believe it or not, it’s allergy season here, and I’m starting to sneeze again!

...and if you want to "soften" the heat a bit, go for the cast iron clad Ashford...and it's not hard to look at.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Did you notice that the bk 20 series actually makes MORE heat on low than the 30 series?

My bk princess is bigger than the 20 or the 30 and I use it for 100% of my heat. 1963 built 1700 sf in western Washington near the mountains. We burn at all outside temperatures. I’ve burned in 7 degree temps with wind up to 65 degree temps outside.

If you ever get too hot, let the fire go out or open a window. You can also select one of the low efficiency and short burn time noncat stoves for pleasure.

We did notice that. It was more the upper end of the range that concerned us. We figured the low was good, but high would be too high, and we understood that we need to burn on high periodically for the health of the firebox or catalyst.

You make a compelling case for the 30, and the idea of putting only 15 inch splits in 1.8 cubic feet knowing that much of our wood looks like a crumpled boomerang really makes me think that the 20 would not be a good choice. How much does one really need to burn on high?

 

[SuperJ]

I’ve been studying those numbers, as well as trying to get an idea of what kind of BTU range would be desirable for us. The Blaze King numbers are actually looking very well matched to our estimates.

I’m thinking that in a climate like yours, fill it up, set the thermostat, and forget it might work. I’m thinking that in a climate like ours, though, I might still have to pay a bit more attention on how full to fill the firebox or whether I choose oak or cedar for a burn. Low and slow is good, but if I only want a 12 low burn instead of a 20 hour one, I can apply some of my non-cat knowledge to achieve it, right?

I hope it makes sense what I’m asking. Believe it or not, it’s allergy season here, and I’m starting to sneeze again!

If you really want to geek out. You can pull up the EPA test reports. In the reports the Bk30 goes down to the 6000btu/hr range. Interesting that the fans were run for almost all the test runs but one.

I think if you’ve done your research and can afford a BK you should pull the trigger but don’t skimp on your chimney system (full insulation and adequate height). The only other stove I’d consider right now would be a Woodstock out of curiosity but they can’t match BKs burntimes or turndown capability.

I find I have to stop continuous burns is when it stays about about 50-60f for too long. The long burn times mean you have plan a bit during the shoulder seasons since tonight’s fire can easily turn in tomorrow night’s fire even if your don’t add fuel. When it’s warmer out, I’ve learned to time my reloads to the evenings when the heat will be needed for the next couple hours. And if I do reload in the warmer day time it’s one or two splits (good for another 4-6hrs).

 

[DuaeGuttae]

This is not a fixed number!

Just keep opening doors to other areas of the house. When they are all open I prop the louvers to an exhaust fan and let the heat into the attic. On days that I know are going to be cold in the mornings and warm in the afternoon I load 2 x a day The 4:00PM load is full, the 4: AM loading is a half load of pine. I try to match the wood load to the anticipated heating needs. The solar heating of the house plays a big part, so I look at "Weather Underground" with the cloud cover feature turned on. Lastly if the house gets too hot, crack a window and enjoy the heat. Make sure it is a window on the back of the house so the BTU police don't fine you.

I looked up your city’s climate data today, and it seems that we’re similar in our winter lows. Your winter highs are below ours apparently, but we swing a lot. It sounds as though you do pay attention to load size and species to help regulate temperature on your mild afternoons, and it’s great to hear that that really works. Would you mind sharing how much space you heat and whether you run the stove at all in April or November?

We actually have a huge amount of cubic footage in the house, but we’re not sure that we could distribute heat all that well due to the layout. The area where I’m thinking for a stove would allow us to heat about 10,000 cubic feet, though. I don’t think that there are any BTU police in Texas, judging by the air conditioning usage in the summer. (My eldest and I actually ended up with chattering teeth after an afternoon of visiting several commercial establishments. We couldn’t wait to get back in the hot car without the air conditioning.)

 

[SuperJ]

How much does one really need to burn on high?

Mostly just 15-30minutes on reloads to deal with moisture. I find with the 500lb Ashford things don’t overheat too quickly since the heavy castings soak up heat and release it slowly, even if your firebox temps are up there. It takes 45 minutes on high to really get things cranking. (I don’t have fans, which might affect things.)

I’m sure you’ll find the occasionally excuse to open it up and clean up the firebox deposits.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I think your heating needs are low and what you really need is a wood stove you will enjoy looking at and make some nice little heat (radiant). A nice little fire in the morning and another one in the evening. Do not look for long burn times you will find it boring and probably useless. I have the Ashford 30 and temperature is around 0 F with some wind. The house is very warm and I don’t even see flames in it because I lowered the dial to 2.5. It would probably work in your location but you would be a bit frustrated not to be able to use it at full throttle very often.

Yes, our heating needs are lower than most, but we do experience some prolonged cool and even cold. We would enjoy radiant heat and do appreciate looking at flames, but we are willing to sacrifice that for turn-down capability. Long burn times aren’t the goal, though we would want overnight capability. It’s mostly just the lower end range that attracts us, and longer burns go hand in hand with that.

I wasn’t sure I fully understood whether you were recommending a 20 over 30 or a non-cat over a BK. Would you clarify, please. Merci.

 

[SuperJ]

I swear burning wood makes moisture...

Was down to -27C this morning (cold for Southern Ontario).

 

[SuperJ]

You can always get flames by turning it up to non cat burn rates. Or by burning single splits at high thermostat settings which is still a low but rate since all the heat has to come from one split. Easy if I throw a split on the coals bed. Would be hard to light a single split from cold though.

If your home a lot and enjoy tending the stove then maybe a non-cat would make you happy burning it pulse and glide. But that probably means touching your stove 4-6+ times a day instead or once or twice.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

If you really want to geek out. You can pull up the EPA test reports. In the reports the Bk30 goes down to the 6000btu/hr range. Interesting that the fans were run for almost all the test runs but one.

I think if you’ve done your research and can afford a BK you should pull the trigger but don’t skimp on your chimney system (full insulation and adequate height). The only other stove I’d consider right now would be a Woodstock out of curiosity but they can’t match BKs burntimes or turndown capability.

I find I have to stop continuous burns is when it stays about about 50-60f for too long. The long burn times mean you have plan a bit during the shoulder seasons since tonight’s fire can easily turn in tomorrow night’s fire even if your don’t add fuel. When it’s warmer out, I’ve learned to time my reloads to the evenings when the heat will be needed for the next couple hours. And if I do reload in the warmer day time it’s one or two splits (good for another 4-6hrs).

6,000 btu/hr. I was seeing closer to 12,000 or 13,000 on the website (and I haven’t attained the level of stove geekier that allows me to remember whether LHV or HHV is what should concern me). The numbers are now getting jumbled up in my mind.

We are blessed to be able to afford a BK if we decide it’s the right fit (and if we find a dealer who will order and install to specs). It’s important to us to use our resources wisely, and so I’m trying to gauge how much use we derive from such a stove I think our whole winter is many people’s shoulder seasons with a few colder bursts here and there.

I have also looked at Woodstocks, but at the moment I’m leaning more toward BK because of the turn-down. That’s really what’s driving my questioning here now is trying to find out how people use their stoves in temperatures just such as you mentioned, 50 to 60 degrees (going down to 35 overnight).

Thanks for helping me on this and pushing me to a new level of stove geekery (once I’ve gotten more sleep).

 

[SuperJ]

6,000 btu/hr. I was seeing closer to 12,000 or 13,000 on the website (and I haven’t attained the level of stove geekier that allows me to remember whether LHV or HHV is what should concern me). The numbers are now getting jumbled up in my mind.

We are blessed to be able to afford a BK if we decide it’s the right fit (and if we find a dealer who will order and install to specs). It’s important to us to use our resources wisely, and so I’m trying to gauge how much use we derive from such a stove I think our whole winter is many people’s shoulder seasons with a few colder bursts here and there.

I have also looked at Woodstocks, but at the moment I’m leaning more toward BK because of the turn-down. That’s really what’s driving my questioning here now is trying to find out how people use their stoves in temperatures just such as you mentioned, 50 to 60 degrees (going down to 35 overnight).

Thanks for helping me on this and pushing me to a new level of stove geekery (once I’ve gotten more sleep).

Download the owners manual and carefully read the first couple pages. That same low btu number is in there too. Page 5

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/PDF/manuals/OM-AF30-E.pdf)

I believe it too, you can keep the cat active with a partial load on top of coals with pretty cool surface temps.

 

[Blazing]

Hickory for 2018! Have a happy new year.

 

[SuperJ]

That’s really what’s driving my questioning here now is trying to find out how people use their stoves in temperatures just such as you mentioned, 50 to 60 degrees (going down to 35 overnight).

I don’t think people’s numbers for OAT are really comparable since construction varies so much. As you go south insulation levels decline and people’s expectations of higher inside temps increases so you’ll see people lighting off at higher temps. I don’t really need to heat my bungalow here in Ontario Canada until temps stay in the 50s or below. But I’ve been to cottages where a fire was welcomed on rainy evenings in the high 60s.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Did you notice that the bk 20 series actually makes MORE heat on low than the 30 series?

I think I understand something better now, Highbeam. Are you working off a 6,000 low btu number for the 30 series? That jumps out at me much more than the rather negligible difference I thought you were referencing before (numbers from the description on the website). The case for the 30 seems to be getting even more compelling.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Download the owners manual and carefully read the first couple pages. That same low btu number is in there too. Page 5

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/PDF/manuals/OM-AF30-E.pdf)

I believe it too, you can keep the cat active with a partial load on top of coals with pretty cool surface temps.

Thank you so much for pointing this out. I hadn’t gotten to the point of reading the whole manual because I just kept referencing btu numbers on the product page. I’ll look into it in the new year.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I don’t think people’s numbers for OAT are really comparable since construction varies so much. As you go south insulation levels decline and people’s expectations of higher inside temps increases so you’ll see people lighting off at higher temps. I don’t really need to heat my bungalow here in Ontario Canada until temps stay in the 50s or below. But I’ve been to cottages where a fire was welcomed on rainy evenings in the high 60s.

Good point.

We are definitely in the south and definitely in the land of low (paltry/does that even count as) insulation? We are taking steps to address those issues, too. It matters for heating and cooling.

Yesterday was up in the 60’s here. My kids curled up like cats on the front porch and back deck and read. The heat from the sun made it more enjoyable to be outside than in. We do like to bask.

 

[coutufr]

I was initially thinking that a small tube stove would work best for you because with the Ashford even at low burn you still get substantial heat but if the stove is centrally located I think you will be good with the Ashford 30. Long and slow burn with the fan on should distribute the heat in your house very well. The 2 big advantages of a catalytic wood stove is that you get all the BTU you can get out of the wood you burn and heating slowly and steadily gives a better heat distribution over the whole house without the need to overheating the space around the stove.

 

[SuperJ]

I think I understand something better now, Highbeam. Are you working off a 6,000 low btu number for the 30 series? That jumps out at me much more than the rather negligible difference I thought you were referencing before (numbers from the description on the website). The case for the 30 seems to be getting even more compelling.

I think @BKVP has said in the past the stoves have comparable low output. And difference just comes down to different EPA test runs. He’s indicated how challenging EPA testing us with all the variables at play (like wood shifting/collapsing in the stove as it burns). I bet the winning 20 run happened at a slightly different stat calibration that resulted in a higher burn rate, than the 30’s run. But would be surprised to see 25% lower minimum rate on the 30 in real world usage. So don't base your choice solely on the low end EPA btu figures.

The 30s tighter clearances meant for me it took up less space than a 20 for a corner install.
You can see if you follow the link below that the 30 actually has smaller minimum corner hearth pad specs.

I got the 30 mainly for the greater burntime over the 20. But the 30 is so good I know I would’ve been happy with the 20 too and my wife would’ve appreciated the cost savings. It seems other manufactures tend to inflate their burntimes where BK almost sandbags them.

(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/TestReports/Ashford30.1_OMNI_web.pdf) ...pure geekery! (Interesting that the A30 exceeds .05inwc during testing for you manometer people)

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/dealerarea/hearthpad/)

 

[Blazing]

13 degrees with a stiff wind tonight. 76 and so comfy still love my BK insert.

 

[AlbergSteve]

I swear burning wood makes moisture...

View attachment 219375
Was down to -27C this morning (cold for Southern Ontario).

Bloody 'ell!