2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[AlbergSteve]

I think @BKVP has said in the past the stoves have comparable low output. And difference just comes down to different EPA test runs. He’s indicated how challenging EPA testing us with all the variables at play (like wood shifting/collapsing in the stove as it burns). I bet the winning 20 run happened at a slightly different stat calibration that resulted in a higher burn rate, than the 30’s run. But would be surprised to see 25% lower minimum rate on the 30 in real world usage. So don't base your choice solely on the low end EPA btu figures.

The 30s tighter clearances meant for me it took up less space than a 20 for a corner install.
You can see if you follow the link below that the 30 actually has smaller minimum corner hearth pad specs.

I got the 30 mainly for the greater burntime over the 20. But the 30 is so good I know I would’ve been happy with the 20 too and my wife would’ve appreciated the cost savings. It seems other manufactures tend to inflate their burntimes where BK almost sandbags them.

(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/TestReports/Ashford30.1_OMNI_web.pdf) ...pure geekery! (Interesting that the A30 exceeds .05inwc during testing for you manometer people)

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/dealerarea/hearthpad/)

X2. For corner install the 30 sits back about and inch from the 20 and about 5 inches more than the Alderlea T6(as a similarly sized stove).

 

[lsucet]

Well, oh yeah. Life is good. Let some bad/cold weather come this way. Both Stoves loaded and running around 10pm last night. Both on low. 6 hrs later and lots of wood left. For minimum 24 hrs burn with pine.
Running both super low, I have been seeing between 27 to 29 hrs burn but it is too off of schedule. I am keeping the reloads around 24 hrs. Easier that way. House super warm.
Upstairs 70/72degrees.

 

[lsucet]

Well I started the truck and wait about 5 minutes and went outside to see what was the temperature that my truck is saying cause I know the truck is accurate.
Truck at front of the house and weather station sensor in the backyard between the trees.

 

[kf6hap]

I have also looked at Woodstocks, but at the moment I’m leaning more toward BK because of the turn-down.

When comparing a BK to an air tube stove at low or very low burn, the BK is the clear winner. At these low burn rates the air tube stove will be polluting badly. This means creosote buildup might be a real problem in the flue stack. Bad fire hazard. BTUs are only part of the story. Clean burns are important from a maintenance point of view too. For example, sweeping the flue several times a year (to prevent a creosote fire) vs once.

The 30 is the lowest burning stove.

The Ashford is the heaviest stove BK makes (>500#) so the heat output will be the smoothest. Cast Iron cladding is wonderful in this respect and being a cladded stove, it produces a lot of convective heat too. This is a great aid in heating adjacent rooms.

One thing that is hard for people to overcome, is the idea of cracking a window to "waste" heat. In the wood burning world, this is normal. Also, it is ok to have it 80F in your house. Feels great in winter.

 

[Highbeam]

We did notice that. It was more the upper end of the range that concerned us. We figured the low was good, but high would be too high, and we understood that we need to burn on high periodically for the health of the firebox or catalyst.

You make a compelling case for the 30, and the idea of putting only 15 inch splits in 1.8 cubic feet knowing that much of our wood looks like a crumpled boomerang really makes me think that the 20 would not be a good choice. How much does one really need to burn on high?

I almost never burn on high. Just during warm up and char of a new load. I see no reason to regularly run the bk on high unless you need or want that much heat. The cat gets plenty hot at all thermostat settings.

We burn 9 months of the year. September through June. Lots of warm weather burning happens during that time and as is the case with all wood burners, you learn to adapt by burning smaller fires less often when it’s warmer out.

You have a furnace. You’ll just not burn if it is too warm.

 

[Blazing]

Well I started the truck and wait about 5 minutes and went outside to see what was the temperature that my truck is saying cause I know the truck is accurate.
Truck at front of the house and weather station sensor in the backyard between the trees.

Nice I've got the same unit in the house. Ended up with a low of 5 degrees last night. My wife stayed up all night and knows I'm a nut so she wrote the time down every time we dropped a degree outside. Ah being married to a blaze king owner lol.

 

[lsucet]

Nice I've got the same unit in the house. Ended up with a low of 5 degrees last night. My wife stayed up all night and knows I'm a nut so she wrote the time down every time we dropped a degree outside. Ah being married to a blaze king owner lol.

Lol. I hear you. Here the lowest was 11 degrees by 6:30 am but not for long, it started picking up quick as soon the sun shows up and now is 37. One stove used to do the job down single digits like last winter. Now with both running I am in the glory.

 

[Ashful]

Did you notice that the bk 20 series actually makes MORE heat on low than the 30 series?

I personally have trouble believing this. We’ve seen errors in BKs marketing before, and I believe those EPA test numbers are rarely an exhibition of the maximum range of capabilities of a stove.

The two boxes, 20 and 30, are going to radiate substantially differing amounts of heat when held at a similar temperature. I have trouble believing that the minimum run temperature of a 20 box is that far above the 30, as to make up the quite substantial difference in their surface areas.

 

[Ashful]

I’ve been studying those numbers, as well as trying to get an idea of what kind of BTU range would be desirable for us. The Blaze King numbers are actually looking very well matched to our estimates.

I’m thinking that in a climate like yours, fill it up, set the thermostat, and forget it might work. I’m thinking that in a climate like ours, though, I might still have to pay a bit more attention on how full to fill the firebox or whether I choose oak or cedar for a burn. Low and slow is good, but if I only want a 12 low burn instead of a 20 hour one, I can apply some of my non-cat knowledge to achieve it, right?

I hope it makes sense what I’m asking. Believe it or not, it’s allergy season here, and I’m starting to sneeze again!

There’s one forum member (sorry, can’t remember who, right now), who looks at the HDD forecast, and weighs his wood load to suit. I always loved that solution.

 

[Highbeam]

I personally have trouble believing this. We’ve seen errors in BKs marketing before, and I believe those EPA test numbers are rarely an exhibition of the maximum range of capabilities of a stove.

The two boxes, 20 and 30, are going to radiate substantially differing amounts of heat when held at a similar temperature. I have trouble believing that the minimum run temperature of a 20 box is that far above the 30, as to make up the quite substantial difference in their surface areas.

We can’t sit here and deny both bk specifications and the epa published specs for the unit. What we can do is admit that these low burn rates are effectively equal. This eliminates the often mistaken advantage of a smaller stove making less heat. In cat stove land, the cat makes the heat and the stove is just the fuel tank. Fuel tank size is not a dependable indicator of the engine’s horsepower! Just how long the engine can make it before running out of fuel.

I don’t recall but I think the 20 and 30 use the same size cat.

Both are good stoves but why on earth would you give up the wider range of outputs and the much longer possible burn time at any output from the 30? I have yet to see a valid upside to the 20. A small amount cheaper is one.

 

[jetsam]

This is why I am still waiting for the 20cf Emperor to get out of testing. I'm going to reload once a month in shoulder season.

 

[becasunshine]

OK, I have a question that's probably been answered here before. I apologize for the redundancy if so.

We have the BK Princess Parlor/free standing stove, along with central HVAC with a heat pump and a condensing gas furnace that runs on propane.

In this kind of weather, especially given our wind right off of the water and wind chill, the heat pump is completely out of the equation. This leaves the condensing gas furnace running on propane ($$$) and the Princess.

We rely solely on the Princess all the time, unless for some reason we are away from the house for enough hours that we set the furnace to cut in as the load in the wood stove burns down. The Princess carries the house easily while set on low to medium during our typical winter weather. The house is approx. 2000 sq ft, single story ranch floor plan with an open concept living area and the typical ranch bedrooms/bathrooms opening along a long hallway on that end of the house. We move heat into the bedrooms by putting a box fan on the floor of the hallway, forward of the bedroom/bathroom door openings, and blowing the cold air from the floor level out of the bedrooms/bathrooms and toward the living area where the stove is located. The stove is pretty well central to the house, sitting just to the side of that end of the hallway.

The intakes for the HVAC system are just around the corner from the stove, in the wall at the end of the hallway, but unless you are using a furnace to blow super heated air directly into the duct system, it just doesn't work. Heated room air just doesn't have enough BTUs to survive being blown through ducts outside of the heated envelope of the house. Moving the cold air out of the other end of the house with a box fan on the floor and forcing the warm air back to the bedrooms via encouraging the convection current works better.

All of this works very well in our typical winter conditions with the stove running on low or perhaps medium in the coldest of our typical weather, but here's the question: what if one needs to run the stove on a higher setting to churn out enough BTUs for challenging weather?

We were running for several hours on 3 last night and we achieved a 52'F spread between inside temps and outside temps- and the inside temp was in our living room area, several feet from the stove. Right now we have a 46'F spread between inside and outside temps (22.5'F real temps outside, 68.5'F in the living room, stove several feet away, fan in hallway pushing cold air at floor level into the living area almost directly in line with the thermometer in the living room) but we *must* run at stove setting 3 to achieve and maintain that.

If I want the temps in the living room in the 70s, I'd have to turn the stove up to 3.5 and run it there.

Stove was professionally installed by an authorized BK dealer with approved close clearance installation using the appropriate close clearance with a BK factory installed rear heat shield.

How long do y'all typically run your BKs on the upper end of the normal setting, say 2.5 or 2.75, or even higher than the normal setting, say 3? How about as high as 3.5?

Is there any reason why we shouldn't run the stove continuously on 3 or 3.5 if we need the heat? Common sense tells me that we can and should run the stove to produce the heat we need- I'm just so used to running it right in the middle of "normal" (about 2.25) or on low during our typical conditions. It seems so weird to run it wide open for long periods.

House is modern construction (circa 2007) with decent insulation and windows. We simply have some challenging conditions out here right now, with cold temps and NW winds right off of the water.

 

[becasunshine]

This is why I am still waiting for the 20cf Emperor to get out of testing. I'm going to reload once a month in shoulder season.

I see what you did there, LOL. Once a month reload.

I'm actually freaking out a little bit here because we're actually having to let loose of the reins a little and let the Princess run on high to get the BTUs we need in these challenging conditions. I know these stoves are built to run, it's actually good for them in terms of cleaning the glass and cleaning the chimney, but I'm not used to having to run this stove on high for hours at a time. (We make sure to run the Princess on high for a brief period at least once a day to clear the chimney and clean the glass, but it's rare when we *must* do it for hours.)

 

[rdust]

We've been told if the bypass is closed and the door is adjusted properly run the stove as hard as you need. I think pointdexter runs his pretty much wide open.

 

[becasunshine]

We've been told if the bypass is closed and the door is adjusted properly run the stove as hard as you need.

Bypass is closed unless we are reloading.

I will admit, I haven't done the dollar bill test on the door gasket this year, but there aren't any symptoms of a gasket/door problem. The Princess is running like a charm, no complaints.

 

[Poindexter]

I see what you did there, LOL. Once a month reload.

I'm actually freaking out a little bit here because we're actually having to let loose of the reins a little and let the Princess run on high to get the BTUs we need in these challenging conditions. I know these stoves are built to run, it's actually good for them in terms of cleaning the glass and cleaning the chimney, but I'm not used to having to run this stove on high for hours at a time. (We make sure to run the Princess on high for a brief period at least once a day to clear the chimney and clean the glass, but it's rare when we *must* do it for hours.)

There are lots and lots of folks in the lower 48 right now who are trying to heat their homes with insulation envelopes that just were not built for the temperatures currently happening. Twist that knob. You won't hurt the stove.

 

[estepracing]

There are lots and lots of folks in the lower 48 right now who are trying to heat their homes with insulation envelopes that just were not built for the temperatures currently happening. Twist that knob. You won't hurt the stove.

That's what we've been doing it's been running just fine really cranking out the Heat....

Blaze King King Wood Stove

 

[becasunshine]

Honestly, I am a bit more concerned about the installation than about the stove itself. Per above, the stove has a close clearance installation done by an authorized BK dealer, with a factory installed rear heat shield. When we run on 3 for several hours, the wall behind and the floor in front of the professionally fabricated and installed hearth pad gets rather hot to the touch. I have an IR thermometer and I use it sometimes to check the temp of the drywall and the hard wood floor around the stove- but I don't know at what temp I should become alarmed.

The installation is to BK specs and to code. I'm not sure why I'm a little apprehensive about it. I've thought about adding some sort of asbestos wall protection behind the stove but that would reduce the 6" clearance we have. The stove pipe has two 45' bends near the ceiling to avoid a ceiling joist/roof truss, Moving the stove out further from the wall to accommodate wall protection would be difficult- we'd have to move the stove out further into the room than I'd prefer to accommodate that joist/truss.

Also we could add convection fans to the stove to dissipate some of the heat behind the stove.

I just tried something else- I moved the box fan from the hallway to the floor beside the stove, blowing toward the side of the stove and toward the gap between the back of the stove and the wall. The wall behind the stove and the floor in front of the hearth pad cooled to the touch significantly and quickly, and darned if it didn't seem to help move the heat around the house better than positioning the fan in the hallway. We had to turn the stove down!

So, I guess I fell backwards into a solution that addresses heat distribution, heat build up around the stove, and how long we have to run the stove on a higher setting.

 

[webby3650]

Honestly, I am a bit more concerned about the installation than about the stove itself. Per above, the stove has a close clearance installation done by an authorized BK dealer, with a factory installed rear heat shield. When we run on 3 for several hours, the wall behind and the floor in front of the professionally fabricated and installed hearth pad gets rather hot to the touch. I have an IR thermometer and I use it sometimes to check the temp of the drywall and the hard wood floor around the stove- but I don't know at what temp I should become alarmed.

The installation is to BK specs and to code. I'm not sure why I'm a little apprehensive about it. I've thought about adding some sort of asbestos wall protection behind the stove but that would reduce the 6" clearance we have. The stove pipe has two 45' bends near the ceiling to avoid a ceiling joist/roof truss, Moving the stove out further from the wall to accommodate wall protection would be difficult- we'd have to move the stove out further into the room than I'd prefer to accommodate that joist/truss.

Also we could add convection fans to the stove to dissipate some of the heat behind the stove.

I just tried something else- I moved the box fan from the hallway to the floor beside the stove, blowing toward the side of the stove and toward the gap between the back of the stove and the wall. The wall behind the stove and the floor in front of the hearth pad cooled to the touch significantly and quickly, and darned if it didn't seem to help move the heat around the house better than positioning the fan in the hallway. We had to turn the stove down!

So, I guess I fell backwards into a solution that addresses heat distribution, heat build up around the stove, and how long we have to run the stove on a higher setting.

How hot are we talking? Can you leave your hand on it?

 

[becasunshine]

Yes, I can leave my hand on it. It's simply warmer to the touch than I'm used to feeling, if the stove has been running on 3 for several hours.

I'm aware because we know of situations in which wall innards have spontaneously combusted from getting too hot behind stoves. I don't know why I'm worried about it, though- it's not like our stove installers and our building inspector aren't aware. They are. In fact, the authorized dealer, who was also our installer, had recently helped the fire department with the investigation of a fire that started behind a stove in exactly that manner. They did not install the stove involved. It had been placed in front of a masonry wall- whomever installed the stove thought that it would be fine with close clearance and without a rear heat shield because of the masonry wall. The masonry wall was non-combustible. Unfortunately there was not asbestos heat mitigation behind the masonry wall, in between it and the drywall and studs behind it. The heat transfer caught the drywall and studs on fire behind the masonry. The fire shot up the inside of the wall into the attic, with the space in between the drywall and the studs acting as a chimney.

That story officially freaked me out! In part, it freaked me out because I could have seen us making a similar mistake if we'd been installing a stove ourselves, and if there was a masonry wall in the house. Neither situation was true in our case. But, like I said, the stove dealer/installer was quite aware, installed per BK specs and per local code, and the installation was inspected by our local building inspector while the stove installers were here. They both went over the BK clearance specs together. I know because I watched them do it.

I was in a house fire as a child- distinct memories of that- so I take this stuff seriously.

This is a word salad to say that while I love wood burning appliances with a passion, I can be a bit neurotic about them too.

 

[Poindexter]

@becasunshine , sounds like the factory deck fan kit is in your near future. I love mine. My original set was warrantied for 24 months and went belly up around 36 months. I didn't even flinch at the price for a replacement set, though I will be looking the new set over pretty careful when it's 23 months old.

 

[becasunshine]

@becasunshine , sounds like the factory deck fan kit is in your near future. I love mine. My original set was warrantied for 24 months and went belly up around 36 months. I didn't even flinch at the price for a replacement set, though I will be looking the new set over pretty careful when it's 23 months old.

You read my mind, Poindexter. Was just Googling the convection deck, fan kit and installation instructions. We do have the heat shield on the back- is this a problem with installing the fans? Also, obvs, the stove is installed. The Blaze King installation PDF recommends installing the fan kit before the stove is installed, in case clearance is an issue. Did you have issues replacing your fan kit with the stove in place? Also, is it a package deal, the convection deck and the fan kit? I'm a little fuzzy on that part.

Is the fan kit about the same level of fan noise as a box fan? I do get burned out on the sound of the fan blowing, I even got burned out on the sound of it in the hallway when we were sitting in the living room, but there's no doubt, it does help move around the BTUs. Using the fan to push that heat from around and behind the stove is insane- it's making all the difference in the temperature in the house. The outside temps are dropping and the inside temps are rising. The bedrooms are even warmer.

So, how would you compare the fan noise from the BK convection deck to a standard box fan? Just so I have that in my head, so my expectations are realistic.

I originally demanded the rear shield over the BK convection deck and fan kit because I wanted the stove to be code compliant and safe when used during power outages. We've since had a whole house generator installed. I'd hate to burn propane to run a generator to power a box fan or a convection fan during a power outage- but if we were using the furnace, we'd burn propane to run the furnace fan, in addition to burning propane in the furnace, so OK.

As soon as I get my head wrapped around what this package involves (fan, deck optional or fan and deck together) how to install, and how much I should expect to pay, I'm going to order one.

Any recommendations on suppliers? There are no BK dealers within 100 miles of us, so I suppose I'll be ordering it online anyway.

Thank you for the input, as always!

 

[becasunshine]

Also, what is this? It doesn't look anything like the fan kit shown in the BK manual. ???

https://www.plumbersstock.com/blaze-king-z1714-fan-kit-for-king-princess.html

 

[dh1989]

There’s one forum member (sorry, can’t remember who, right now), who looks at the HDD forecast, and weighs his wood load to suit. I always loved that solution.

That would be me - 1.3 lbs/HDD, unless the forecast calls for under 10 HDD, at which point solar gain has me covered.

I'm running 70-80 lbs of wood per day with overnight lows around 0F.

 

[Poindexter]

I dunno the particulars for deck fan set up on a princess. I am sure someone who does will be along shortly.

On my A30 i was able to replace the fan kit with out disconnecting the flue pipe, but the stove was cold and i had to lay on top of it to get at some of the harder to reach screws.