2015-2016 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

[BKVP]

Is that in the manual? The draft could reverse with no oak and dump the smoke into the house. Might be better to send it up the oak to daylight.

No way! Adding a "chimney" is what can induce draft reversal. Safety labs tell all manufacturers to be alert to the potential for draft reversal.

 

[tarzan]

Cold house with new Blaze King Sirocco 20! Help! We have a new install of the Sirocco 20 with double wall 6" pipe rising" 20 to 2- 45 degrees and then 16" to wall. Then through the wall to exterior 6" diameter double wall stainless steel chimney approx. 18' with cap with spark arrestor. We are burning mostly red oak with tested moisture 12-14% (tested with an inexpensive 2 prong meter). House is 1344 sq feet though we don't expect super warm upstairs so technically less than 700 square feet. Previously we had for 10 years a cat Dutchwest 2640. So, based on original dealer install, we had oozing creosote and heavy creosote build up on the window. The dealer worked with BK to diagnose issues and so we upgraded to the double wall inside pipe. This seems to have helped with the creosote though we haven't re-checked the exterior chimney. We also learned from BK that the temp gauge should probably be no lower than 2:30 if 6 o'clock would be fully open (high). So now we do still have a fair bit of creosote in the window corners that doesn't burn off but it is better and BK states this is normal though we are still a little doubtful based on our experience with the Dutchwest and how creosote burns off when running properly. When the temps have been in the mid 20's to low 30's we haven't been able to get the house temp above 65. We do like the fact of the long burn time though still see no reason why our house shouldn't be a tad warmer (or A LOT warmer based on other forum posts). Is it possible that the heat is going up the chimney? Any ideas?

What setting are you running your temp guage/thermostat on? With creosite on the glass it sounds like your stove should have more to offer than you are getting from it.

 

[jetsam]

Any ideas?

20° outside plus cold inside plus black window sounds like either the stove is set to run very low, or it's not getting enough draft. I would start by running it wide open for a while. If you don't get a captive inferno in the firebox and lots of heat, either it's not getting enough air in or air out!

If that's the case, I'd check the draft first, and then maybe look for a faulty flapper/thermostat second.

Then again, maybe a 40° temperature differential is all you are going to get because you have poor windows or insulation... but if you were running the stove hard with dry wood and everything was working, you wouldn't have a black window on the stove.

 

[Fireflies]

What setting are you running your temp guage/thermostat on? With creosite on the glass it sounds like your stove should have more to offer than you are getting from it.

We have been running at 3-330 during the day to increase burn time because we are at work away from the house. In the evening maybe 4-5 or so. We did try running at the hottest (6 oclock) but still did not burn off all the creosote. Based on everything we seen on the forums given the outside temp which hasn't been super cold and size of space we should not have be running it at hottest which is also very inefficient.

 

[BKVP]

20° outside plus cold inside plus black window sounds like either the stove is set to run very low, or it's not getting enough draft. I would start by running it wide open for a while. If you don't get a captive inferno in the firebox and lots of heat, either it's not getting enough air in or air out!

If that's the case, I'd check the draft first, and then maybe look for a faulty flapper/thermostat second.

Then again, maybe a 40° temperature differential is all you are going to get because you have poor windows or insulation... but if you were running the stove hard with dry wood and everything was working, you wouldn't have a black window on the stove.

Make certain all moisture readings are from the face of a fresh split...

 

[Fireflies]

20° outside plus cold inside plus black window sounds like either the stove is set to run very low, or it's not getting enough draft. I would start by running it wide open for a while. If you don't get a captive inferno in the firebox and lots of heat, either it's not getting enough air in or air out!

If that's the case, I'd check the draft first, and then maybe look for a faulty flapper/thermostat second.

Then again, maybe a 40° temperature differential is all you are going to get because you have poor windows or insulation... but if you were running the stove hard with dry wood and everything was working, you wouldn't have a black window on the stove.

Do you know how we could check draft? And are we looking for?

The creosote is not all across the glass, its in the corners - on each side about 3.5" from metal edge inward and 5-6" up. We sent photos of this to BK and was told this is normal. Again, we are not convinced but we were told that.

Just for reference we do have "replacement windows" in the house though its a 1935 house so certainly not a sealed zero net energy house. Our 1.8 cu ft firebox Dutchwest cat was capable of keeping this very house warm - difference there, we came home to a colder house because the burn time wasn't nearly as long. We are hoping the just running the stove all the way at the hottest temperature setting isn't the only solution as this seems counterproductive to what the BK is supposed to do. At hottest setting the burn times are severely diminished, the efficiency of the stove is compromised and the pollution level is dramatically increased as well.

 

[Fireflies]

Make certain all moisture readings are from the face of a fresh split...

Of course. The outside unsplit was 11% inside fresh split test was 12%-14%.

 

[Ashful]

We have been running at 3-330 during the day to increase burn time because we are at work away from the house. In the evening maybe 4-5 or so. We did try running at the hottest (6 oclock) but still did not burn off all the creosote. Based on everything we seen on the forums given the outside temp which hasn't been super cold and size of space we should not have be running it at hottest which is also very inefficient.

Every install is different, so I'd hesitate to compare o'clock positions too much, but I'm getting 24 hour burns with dial at 3:30 o'clock on an Ashford 30 on a similar chimney height. We're both burning dry oak, so I'd think you would get maybe 16 hours out of the 20 running at 3:30 o'clock, with your setup. For 12 hour cycles, I burn at maybe 4:30 o'clock on a taller chimney, so I'd expect you could do close to 8 hours at a similar or higher setting.

If you're getting creo anywhere but the lower corners of the glass, you're burning low or wet. Don't expect it to ever completely disappear from the lower corners, but the rest of the glass should clean up pretty well at your quoted 5 o'clock position. It can take a good 20-30 minutes on high to burn off with a fresh reload, after running low for a full load, but your initial statement of "oozing" creosote does sure sound like a wet wood problem.

I'm guessing you went small based on your experience with that DW 2460. With the BK 30 firebox, you'd be able to get more firepower when you need it, but also run low and slow when you didn't. Might be worth considering an upgrade to a Sirocco 30, if you're not completely turned off by your present experience.

 

[jetsam]

Do you know how we could check draft? And are we looking for?

The creosote is not all across the glass, its in the corners - on each side about 3.5" from metal edge inward and 5-6" up. We sent photos of this to BK and was told this is normal. Again, we are not convinced but we were told that.

Just for reference we do have "replacement windows" in the house though its a 1935 house so certainly not a sealed zero net energy house. Our 1.8 cu ft firebox Dutchwest cat was capable of keeping this very house warm - difference there, we came home to a colder house because the burn time wasn't nearly as long. We are hoping the just running the stove all the way at the hottest temperature setting isn't the only solution as this seems counterproductive to what the BK is supposed to do. At hottest setting the burn times are severely diminished, the efficiency of the stove is compromised and the pollution level is dramatically increased as well.

The traditional way is to light a match in a cold stove near the flue (bypass open) and watch it to see if the flame gets pulled towards the flue. If the flame leans towards the exit, that's good; if it's vertical, that's not good; if it leans towards you, that's bad indeed.

Being a simple guy, I would also check it with a clamp light (actually look down all the sections of pipe, which might take some disassembly if you have elbows). I am lucky in that I can just put a bright light in my stove and go stand on the roof and see the whole thing.

I wouldn't expect the BK to behave much differently than your old stove when it is below zero outside- they have magic thermostats, not magic heat-makers. (That is to say- it regulates its own air supply to try to stay at a fixed internal temperature, so if you're burning it hard, the air is pretty much wide open, so the magic thermostat isn't doing much and it behaves like any other catalytic stove.)

I suppose for maximum efficiencies and burn times, one should keep adding stoves until you can run them all on low- but I personally am going to keep burning my one stove as hot as needed to keep the house toasty!

 

[rdust]

Of course. The outside unsplit was 11% inside fresh split test was 12%-14%.

The splits should be 70* before splitting to check them l. That part doesn't get posted too often.

The people seeing 12-14% must live in a desert! I have wood that has been split, stacked in elevated top covered single rows for 4 years that read in the upper teens.

 

[Fireflies]

Every install is different, so I'd hesitate to compare o'clock positions too much, but I'm getting 24 hour burns with dial at 3:30 o'clock on an Ashford 30 on a similar chimney height. We're both burning dry oak, so I'd think you would get maybe 16 hours out of the 20 running at 3:30 o'clock, with your setup. For 12 hour cycles, I burn at maybe 4:30 o'clock on a taller chimney, so I'd expect you could do close to 8 hours at a similar or higher setting.

If you're getting creo anywhere but the lower corners of the glass, you're burning low or wet. Don't expect it to ever completely disappear from the lower corners, but the rest of the glass should clean up pretty well at your quoted 5 o'clock position. It can take a good 20-30 minutes on high to burn off with a fresh reload, after running low for a full load, but your initial statement of "oozing" creosote does sure sound like a wet wood problem.

I'm guessing you went small based on your experience with that DW 2460. With the BK 30 firebox, you'd be able to get more firepower when you need it, but also run low and slow when you didn't. Might be worth considering an upgrade to a Sirocco 30, if you're not completely turned off by your present experience.

We went with the Sirocco 20 because it met the sq ft we are trying to heat (it states 800-1500 sq ft). Well, no, the oozing creosote was not wet wood. Working with dealer and BK, they suggested changing from single wall pipe to double wall pipe inside which did correct the creosote oozing issue. It seems like maybe the Sirocco 30 is better but we are not made of money and didn't win the recent powerball so we are not in a position to replace our brand new replacement stove. If BK offered the 30 as an exchange with us paying the difference, sounds like something we should consider.

 

[Fireflies]

The splits should be 70* before splitting to check them l. That part doesn't get posted too often.

The people seeing 12-14% must live in a desert! I have wood that has been split, stacked in elevated top covered single rows for 4 years that read in the upper teens.

We don't have an expensive moisture metere so I'm sure there is some wiggle room in the readings. However, overall it is verified we do have the proper dry wood. You mean the temperature is 70 degrees outside when you split the wood to check the moisture?

 

[rdust]

You mean the temperature is 70 degrees outside when you split the wood to check the moisture?

Meters are calibrated for 70 degrees. During the winter months you need to bring what you are testing inside and warm it up to so it's close to 70 before testing it.

 

[BKVP]

Ok, my own personal performance comments. I own a King model in a 2850 sq ft house built in 1895. The stove is 14 years old, as is the cat. R value is about a C-.

After 4 years of burning NIELS, I elected to go back to cordwood. (I still inventory NIELS for my wife as I travel quite a bit. 270 days last year).

Today, I decided to tackle every service/repair we recommend. I HATE that I let the fire go out for the first time in many winters. I let the NG furnace warm the house.

First, I emptied all the ashes and hot coals. Then I slid up the slip joint in my double wall pipe. I reached inside and dropped the flame shield. I pushed on the back of the cat (gently...it is old) from inside through the flue collar and removed the cat. It was a tad bit stubborn...after so many years.

I then unhinged the by pass plate. My King was made before we began using by pass retainers. Turned the plate side ways and slid it out through the combustor opening. The reason I did this was to see how hard it would be to install a replacement by pass plate. While the old plate was out, I dug out the 5/8" rope gasket, it was VERY compressed after 14 years. Took all of 30 seconds to clean out the channel and using high temp silicone, I dropped in a new gasket.

Then, put a new by pass plate into the stove through the combustor opening. First attempt snagged my new gasket, so I had to be a bit more careful on try #2. Turned the plate into the correct position, connected the 3/8" stainless by pass crank rod and lifted the by pass hinge pins into position behind the locators. I then wrapped the combustor with a new gasket and taped it down with 2" wide masking tape. Although I never had any issues, I went ahead and put in the by pass plate retainers. I slid the cat into place, scrubbed the flame shield and put it back into place.

The next step, I replaced the door gasket. I did this 5 years ago and had adjusted it many times, so it was compressed. Backed out the latch bolt, put anti seize on the the threads and set the tension using the grandsons dollar bill. I don't have any because I have grandkids.

I then lathered up the by pass crank rod and ramp with anti seize, set the tension using my 7/16" box wrench and dropped the pipe and got a match. Entire process was 1.5 hours, including a trip to my local stove factory for parts!

Happy to report, no flame, 1047F cat on medium low burn, no smoke out of the stack.

What am I going to do tomorrow?

 

[rdust]

Temp correction. (broken link removed to http://www.delmhorst.com/Documents/PDFs/Product-Support/Temperature-Correction-Table.pdf)

Species correction http://www.delmhorst.com/Documents/PDFs/Product-Support/Species-Correction-Table.pdf

 

[Fireflies]

The traditional way is to light a match in a cold stove near the flue (bypass open) and watch it to see if the flame gets pulled towards the flue. If the flame leans towards the exit, that's good; if it's vertical, that's not good; if it leans towards you, that's bad indeed.

Being a simple guy, I would also check it with a clamp light (actually look down all the sections of pipe, which might take some disassembly if you have elbows). I am lucky in that I can just put a bright light in my stove and go stand on the roof and see the whole thing.

I wouldn't expect the BK to behave much differently than your old stove when it is below zero outside- they have magic thermostats, not magic heat-makers. (That is to say- it regulates its own air supply to try to stay at a fixed internal temperature, so if you're burning it hard, the air is pretty much wide open, so the magic thermostat isn't doing much and it behaves like any other catalytic stove.)

I suppose for maximum efficiencies and burn times, one should keep adding stoves until you can run them all on low- but I personally am going to keep burning my one stove as hot as needed to keep the house toasty!

Cool. Next time it warms up a bit (so we can shutdown the stove) will do your simple draft check suggestions! Well, yes, that is the issue to solve -- It hasn't really been cold yet and our house hasn't been as warm as we would expect. BTW, for 10 years the Dutchwest worked perfectly. Year 11, last year, it was burning too hot. Possibly? needed to be "rebuilt". We were in the position of deciding how much $ do you put into a used car so opted for new. Maybe that was a bad decision. We haven't given up hope.

 

[Ashful]

We don't have an expensive moisture metere so I'm sure there is some wiggle room in the readings. However, overall it is verified we do have the proper dry wood. You mean the temperature is 70 degrees outside when you split the wood to check the moisture?

My first year, I was getting 18% readings on the fresh face of splits that were less than a year old, and thought I was in good shape. It wasn't until I realized how much temperature affects conductivity, that I realized how bad my readings really were.

Move a few splits indoors for a day, let them warm up, then take them back out to split and check. Then you'll have a good reading.

 

[Ashful]

Cool. Next time it warms up a bit (so we can shutdown the stove) will do your simple draft check suggestions! Well, yes, that is the issue to solve -- It hasn't really been cold yet and our house hasn't been as warm as we would expect. BTW, for 10 years the Dutchwest worked perfectly. Year 11, last year, it was burning too hot. Possibly? needed to be "rebuilt". We were in the position of deciding how much $ do you put into a used car so opted for new. Maybe that was a bad decision. We haven't given up hope.

There haven't been many complaints about any BK stove on this forum. You'll get this figured out. I'm not so familiar with the Sirocco 20, but can say the Ashford 30 (identical tech to Sirocco 30) is just amazing.

BTW... to use rdust's table, figure a reading of 15% at 20F translates to a true 20% MC.

 

[tarzan]

We went with the Sirocco 20 because it met the sq ft we are trying to heat (it states 800-1500 sq ft). Well, no, the oozing creosote was not wet wood. Working with dealer and BK, they suggested changing from single wall pipe to double wall pipe inside which did correct the creosote oozing issue. It seems like maybe the Sirocco 30 is better but we are not made of money and didn't win the recent powerball so we are not in a position to replace our brand new replacement stove. If BK offered the 30 as an exchange with us paying the difference, sounds like something we should consider.

Do you have the blower on your stove? I can't speak for anyone else but having the blower running makes a huge difference in my stoves ability to heat my home.

 

[Ashful]

If BK offered the 30 as an exchange with us paying the difference, sounds like something we should consider.

Can't speak for BK or your dealer, but it couldn't hurt to ask both, if you decide to go that way.

 

[Fireflies]

Meters are calibrated for 70 degrees. During the winter months you need to bring what you are testing inside and warm it up to so it's close to 70 before testing it.

Interesting, good to know. I did read the meter manual, don't think that was mentioned but again, we bought at the low end. So, it can be split when not 70 degrees, then bring in to warm up? Or warm up then bring out to split? Oh, wait, we can't get inside to 70 degrees with the BK -- but it near that

 

[Fireflies]

Do you have the blower on your stove? I can't speak for anyone else but having the blower running makes a huge difference in my stoves ability to heat my home.

No blower. We purposefully don't want to mix woodstoves and electricity. We do have the mechanical fan on top of the stove that we do think helps distribute heat better. Still, our thermostat is just outside the room the stove is in and we are getting 63-65 degrees when the lowest temp we have had outside so for is mid 20's but mostly high 20's to mid 30's.

 

[rdust]

Interesting, good to know. I did read the meter manual, don't think that was mentioned but again, we bought at the low end. So, it can be split when not 70 degrees, then bring in to warm up? Or warm up then bring out to split? Oh, wait, we can't get inside to 70 degrees with the BK -- but it near that

Warm then split.

 

[Fireflies]

Can't speak for BK or your dealer, but it couldn't hurt to ask both, if you decide to go that way.

True. Dealer has been great, trying help us figure this out. We probably should ask if upgrading to the 30 would make any difference.

 

[Fireflies]

Warm then split.

Oh. Okay did not do that. Like to learn new things which is why Hearth.com is great. Lots of experience, knowledgeable folks. Will try that.