2014-2015 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

[claybe]

Okay, I have my princess insert apart and have a question. I have the tstat turned all the way down and the flapper is still open about an inch? Is that what it is supposed to do???

 

[claybe]

Oh and I did the dollar bill test on the bypass door and it is very loose. How do I tighten that?

 

[claybe]

Okay I did the hair dryer test and the flapper closed all the way. It looks like I have to tighten the bypass door by tightening the cables attached to the handle.

 

[weatherguy]

The Progress Hybrid has the same size firebox as the Princess, and they're both rated at 81% efficiency.. what higher HP do you mean?

The Ideal Steel is larger.

HP = horsepower . The Princess insert has 2.54 cf box, smaller than the free stander, the PH has a higher BTU rating and I can tell you from running it this week it gets my house warmer than the Princess ever did and I haven't run it nearly as hot as it's capable, I think the Princess Free Stander I a little bit better heater than the insert. Both great stoves but I think the PH is better for my situation.

 

[drz1050]

Ahh, I didn't realize you were referring to the insert, thought you were comparing free standing to free standing.

My fault, glad you're happy with the new one!

 

[BKVP]

This is interesting. My current cat was not in the best shape, so I replaced my it yesterday with a new Steelcat and it changed the burn quite a bit. The temperature fluctuations are pretty much non-existent now. The cat went ape for the first few hours, but after that it smoothed right out. This was on a setting of 1.25 for the entire burn (which still has a lot left to go than the graph shows).

I think it takes less of a damper opening now to get the cat to burn hotter. Basically, the new cat is more responsive to increases in smoke, and it is awesome.

Doug you have an

Okay, I have my princess insert apart and have a question. I have the tstat turned all the way down and the flapper is still open about an inch? Is that what it is supposed to do???

yes....7/8" at room temperature.

 

[BKVP]

Oh and I did the dollar bill test on the bypass door and it is very loose. How do I tighten that?

There is a nut and bolt on the bypass plate. LOOSEN THE 7/16" NUT FIRST AS IT IS A KEEPER NUT. Then rotate the head of the bolt 1/4 turn, rescuer the keeper nut. Remember the metals expand when heated so do a small incremental adjustment.

 

[BKVP]

Okay I did the hair dryer test and the flapper closed all the way. It looks like I have to tighten the bypass door by tightening the cables attached to the handle.

No. Follow the above procedure.

 

[BKVP]

Poindexter and others is Fairbanks, Fox or North Pole, I will be up your way next weekend and the following weeks through December 3rd.

If anyone wants that offer of a free beer, let me know.

 

[claybe]

Thanks Chris! Again, I appreciate your presence here I had her apart for about 4 hours today. The wire that is attached to the bypass lever was severed and holding on by one strand. I had to perform surgery and it took forever to put back together with new wire. But I think I got it. I have been contemplating this design and an upgrade for the past 5 hours. I think I have a few ideas and will continue to think about it as I think it can be better. I also noticed that the screw holes that hold in the tstat are adjustable. It was set with the flapper as far open as possible and I adjusted it to be as closed as possible. I will see what that does. It is neat to see how it all works!! I think you should have to tour the factory and see how they work before you buy one

 

[Poindexter]

Poindexter and others is Fairbanks, Fox or North Pole, I will be up your way next weekend and the following weeks through December 3rd.

If anyone wants that offer of a free beer, let me know.

HooDoo? Not Tuesday or Thursday nights, I take hospital call. Otherwise, I will be delighted to get part of the price of my stove back in a pint glass.

When you have time, can I hear your opinion(s) about proposed local air quality regs, cat stoves and bio-logs? I don't see that my exhaust plume is any cleaner running biologs compared to 11-15% MC cordwood.

If you'd rather talk about fishing and hunting when you are here that's great, I am a 338 federal man myself, and next year I will be leaving my boat at home to dip net the Kasilof for reds from the beach.

psst: Can I bring my wife?

 

[BKVP]

HooDoo is perfect. The owner is a BK owner and wanted me to show up there anyway. I am flying up to speak with all the players at DEC and the borough offices. I will attend all the meetings as well. I think the opacity rule needs work, but it would get some folks more involved in clean burning habits.

How about Monday evening? Certainly bring your wife, I may bring a friend as well. I'll give you a call when I get a firm schedule of my activities.

I'm a 338 RUM fan myself. We can discuss hunting and stoves, they go together!

 

[Poindexter]

Monday Dec first is good for me. Monday the 8th I'll be coming off a 60 hour weekend call shift and may be asleep.

I agree local burning habits is a big part of the problem. I drove by two of them just this afternoon. If not 100% opacity than 99.9+%. Both of them with plenty of wide open space on the lawn to be five years ahead on seasoning firewood, and still plenty of room to play croquet.

I have read that 400 and 500 yard opportunities are becoming commonplace in Idaho and western OR/WA, making the magnum rifle cartridges practically de rigueur. Hoping to take a caribou from about 75 yards with a 45 Colt pistol next season myself.

 

[BKVP]

Monday Dec first is good for me. Monday the 8th I'll be coming off a 60 hour weekend call shift and may be asleep.

I agree local burning habits is a big part of the problem. I drove by two of them just this afternoon. If not 100% opacity than 99.9+%. Both of them with plenty of wide open space on the lawn to be five years ahead on seasoning firewood, and still plenty of room to play croquet.

I have read that 400 and 500 yard opportunities are becoming commonplace in Idaho and western OR/WA, making the magnum rifle cartridges practically de rigueur. Hoping to take a caribou from about 75 yards with a 45 Colt pistol next season myself.

Spring bruin 2013, 1167 yards. 338 RUM and NightForce 12x42 NXS.
Monday the first is the day! (Evening)
There seems to be a lack of interest for enforcement responsibility in the Borough/State. While dealers are selling only stoves below 2.5 gr/hr., some merchants are still selling exempt stoves around the area.
For those not up to date on your stove change out (and this will get some comments!) the borough will give you up to $3,400 to turn in old pre EPA stoves to be used towards getting a stove that is 2,5 gr/hr or less. Yet there is no restriction on coal emissions from either the power plants or residential burning.
And if you have an EPA approved model that is rated at greater than 2.5, it too can be traded in for financial support.

It seems to me to be a patchwork of efforts with little coordination from all parties involved.

 

[Highbeam]

When you have time, can I hear your opinion(s) about proposed local air quality regs, cat stoves and bio-logs? I don't see that my exhaust plume is any cleaner running biologs compared to 11-15% MC cordwood.

I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.

I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.

Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.

 

[BKVP]

I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.

I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.

Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.

Highbeam,

As you all know I use NIELS. My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes. Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons. Then I reload again.

Two weeks ago I was honored to speak at the Stove Design Challenge II held at Brookhaven National Labs. I had the opportunity to share with many regulators the various effects draft has on stove performance. Emissions, burn time, heat transference efficiency etc, all varied when only slight changes were made to varying chimne installs and draft manipulation. (brand of pipe, length of pipe, number of elbows, length of horizontal runs, single wall, double wall, barometeric or key dampers etc.)

It's safe to say that even a 1 gr/hr unit can be made to burn differently (dirtier) depending upon dozens or variables. (Variability being the operative word)

Getting everyone to understand all of this has been a challenge. I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.

 

[Rich2343]

Highbeam,

As you all know I use NIELS. My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes. Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons. Then I reload again.

Two weeks ago I was honored to speak at the Stove Design Challenge II held at Brookhaven National Labs. I had the opportunity to share with many regulators the various effects draft has on stove performance. Emissions, burn time, heat transference efficiency etc, all varied when only slight changes were made to varying chimne installs and draft manipulation. (brand of pipe, length of pipe, number of elbows, length of horizontal runs, single wall, double wall, barometeric or key dampers etc.)

It's safe to say that even a 1 gr/hr unit can be made to burn differently (dirtier) depending upon dozens or variables. (Variability being the operative word)

Getting everyone to understand all of this has been a challenge. I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.

Chris I understand now what your saying the BK wood stove is a Lot like a high preformance muscle car. One has a car however a little tweek here and their makes a termendunce amounts of horsepower. Someone says they did a 1/8 in 6.6 we want to go equal of faster. Well in our case here we're after a alot of heat example one says 20 hrs @ 450 ....

 

[BKVP]

Correct. Influences in your example, drop air pressure in the rear tires, advance timing 1 degree, raise octane 2 points, keep engine warm between runs etc. I raced. I made all the classic assumptions....and I hated (and still do) to lose!

Solid fuel heaters are just as complex.

I had a guy the other day say his brand new Ashford 30 was pouring smoke into the dining area of his restaurant. 8' of double wall and 6' of chimney. No elbows. Smoked with first fire, both door open and door closed. Fire died minute door was closed. If he had posted here, classic observations would be:

1) wet wood
2) failure to open by pass
3) insuffient air or blocked passage air way
4) blockage in pipe or cap
5) backwards wound spring in thermostat (ugh)
6) paint curing
7) many more.....

So I called the guy, my rep and dealer both at odds over situation....so I called him directly. In just a few minutes of his venting (nice words for being upset) I told him to go to the stove and we can go over the operation.

When I said turn the thermostat knob to warmest setting he said "what thermostat knob?" He thought the black knob was for the fans. I said no, that would be the rheostat knob located in the lower right corner. He said that knob was missing. I asked about the shaft the knob would be on and he said "oh, I remember I did not order the fans for this stove."

I'll tell you more Owners Manuals are used to start the first fire than all fire starters combined!

 

[Poindexter]

Spring bruin 2013, 1167 yards. 338 RUM and NightForce 12x42 NXS.

That's a rifle shot from more than a half mile away. zounds.

Monday the first is the day! (Evening)

Cool.

There seems to be a lack of interest for enforcement responsibility in the Borough/State. While dealers are selling only stoves below 2.5 gr/hr., some merchants are still selling exempt stoves around the area.
For those not up to date on your stove change out (and this will get some comments!) the borough will give you up to $3,400 to turn in old pre EPA stoves to be used towards getting a stove that is 2,5 gr/hr or less. Yet there is no restriction on coal emissions from either the power plants or residential burning.
And if you have an EPA approved model that is rated at greater than 2.5, it too can be traded in for financial support.

It seems to me to be a patchwork of efforts with little coordination from all parties involved.

There have been several upgrade programs recently. The wife and I qualified for one earlier this year that let us turn in our old (EPA cert non-cat) stove and get reimbursed up to $4000 for a new EPA cert stove - provided the new stove tested at half or less than half of the emissions of the stove we turned in, and less than 2.5 grams per hour. Even the BK princess wan't quite clean enough - or our old stove was already clean enough, whatever, the size 30BK was the only stove on the market that emitted less than half of what our old stove did, it was either the Sirocco, the Chinook or the Ashford. The wife liked the Ashford.

Two reasonable articles in the News Miner this fall, One was an editorial ahead of the election pointing out that if we don't regulate ourselves into clean air the feds will regulate us into clean air - therefore shouldn't we as independent small government types clean up our own air?

When the election came the resolution re-authorizing the borough to regulate air quality passed- with the voters most in favor voting in the precincts with the dirtiest air, again according to an article in the News-Miner. I live about 150 meters from Wood River Elementary School myself, a poster child neighborhood for what's wrong with burning wood.

Besides "we have always done it this way", another common theme is our air quality sucks in the summer time too. Forest fires around here don't tend to threaten structures, so the forest service lets them burn, the smoke drifts into town, invariably on Friday afternoons, and "doesn't wood smoke from forest fires cause asthma in little kids too?"

And the automobile emissions regs were allowed to expire a couple years ago, by itself that didn't solve the problem.

"Uncoordinated Patchwork" is an excellent synopsis of the situation. Thanks for doing what you can to fight the good fight. I am in favor of small government, but I am also in favor of responsible citizenry.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the Princess is a good stove by all accounts. If I could have gotten one I would have looked real hard at giving up a bedroom to put a stove in my downstairs "office", paid the $$$ to extend my chimney from upstairs to downstairs and saved even more money on my oil bill. But, my old stove was rated at 3.4 grams per hour, so to get the upgraded stove on that particular borough program back in the spring we had to find a new stove at less than 1.7 grams per hour. Princess is rated at 1.74gr/hr. Dang good, but just above my upper limit.

 

[Poindexter]

I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.

I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.

Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.

I have a pretty good hunch that exhaust plume opacity isn't the entire story. Probably a clean plume, sort of like a clean spark plug can tell us that everything is working pretty good. But like a spark plug an unclean exhaust plume alone doesn't tell us the whole story. Probably.

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam,

As you all know I use NIELS. My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes. Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons. Then I reload again. I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.

I tried to be careful and objective in creating a data point. My "by the book" installation, my long burn goals, my clean burn goals, my definition of "smoke", demonstrated that the NIELs are a smokey fuel source from cold start to at least 12 hours. Perhaps there is an installation and control setting that allows the NIELs to be smoke free and that would be another data point. As you said Chris, each install is different. The only way to get valuable data is by collecting data instead of discounting each report. I accept that your king can do 12 hour cycles smoke free though I understand that your stove, flue, cat condition, stat setting, and climate may be different.

 

[Highbeam]

Princess is rated at 1.74gr/hr. Dang good, but just above my upper limit.

I could have sworn it was mid 2s gph but I don't pay much attention. Visible smoke and gph may not be directly related. For one thing, steam increases opacity.

 

[craigbaill]

Correct. Influences in your example, drop air pressure in the rear tires, advance timing 1 degree, raise octane 2 points, keep engine warm between runs etc. I raced. I made all the classic assumptions....and I hated (and still do) to lose!

Solid fuel heaters are just as complex.

I had a guy the other day say his brand new Ashford 30 was pouring smoke into the dining area of his restaurant. 8' of double wall and 6' of chimney. No elbows. Smoked with first fire, both door open and door closed. Fire died minute door was closed. If he had posted here, classic observations would be:

1) wet wood
2) failure to open by pass
3) insuffient air or blocked passage air way
4) blockage in pipe or cap
5) backwards wound spring in thermostat (ugh)
6) paint curing
7) many more.....

So I called the guy, my rep and dealer both at odds over situation....so I called him directly. In just a few minutes of his venting (nice words for being upset) I told him to go to the stove and we can go over the operation.

When I said turn the thermostat knob to warmest setting he said "what thermostat knob?" He thought the black knob was for the fans. I said no, that would be the rheostat knob located in the lower right corner. He said that knob was missing. I asked about the shaft the knob would be on and he said "oh, I remember I did not order the fans for this stove."

I'll tell you more Owners Manuals are used to start the first fire than all fire starters combined!

Classic...... Wow, just wow. But at least you got him squared away! Its a shame to have such a great piece of equipment but not get it to function properly. RTFM is a mantra for me. Lots of good info in those manuals! Places like this and folks like you BKVP give us the right info to make it all work.

 

[becasunshine]

As God as my witness, I started the first fire in our Princess with the owners manual opened on the nearby table, and in my hands when the stove or the fire wood were not. My husband was clear across the country in Vegas at a conference.

I did exactly what the manual said to do, word for word.

I'd never once in my life started a wood stove fire before that night.

I had more trouble with our overly sensitive smoke alarms than I even dreamed about having with the stove. The stove behaved *exactly* like the manual said it would- to the letter.

Our fire wood is dry enough that we don't have to let the stove run on high as long as the manual recommends- that is the only deviation we've done since starting the stove up last month.

The manual is priceless- it tells you exactly what to do, and when you do that, the stove does exactly what the manual says it will do. Honestly, I wish all appliances adhered to the manual the way the Princess does.

(At a neighbor's suggestion we replaced the overly sensitive smoke alarm in the near vicinity to the stove with a system compliant heat alarm from the same manufacturer. It's plug and play and talks to all of the other alarms just like the smoke alarm in that location did. Since replacing that smoke alarm with the heat alarm and getting past the curing stage, our alarm issues appear to be over as well.)

 

[SKRAE]

Thoughts on running 24-30" of single wall from a princess to my chimney liner in a alcove?