Wood insert (and problems) came with the house

[murinsky]

Well, the good news is that you have a decent model insert. I think that is an Avalon Rainier-45.

Yep I can confirm this. I have the Rainier 90. It is called the 45 because of the angle of the back/top where the flue exits. On the 90, it comes straight out the top.

This is a great insert and I love mine. Avalon does make a blower for it, although mine came without and still heats 1250 sq ft of a partially-reinsulated/partially replaced windows 1950's ranch. I plan to add the blower soon. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to post the link directly, but here is the link to the owners manual: (broken link removed)

I noticed from the pictures that I can't see the handle for the air control. It should be under the ash shelf on the bottom of the stove. I can't tell if it's missing or just hidden out of view from the angle of the picture, but there should be something there. Pushed in = more air, pulled out = less air. Of course the glass is the main concern now, but you wouldn't want to use the stove without air control either.

The issues with the install are indeed numerous and have been pretty well covered already. The advice you will get on this forum is the best there is.

 

[dave_376]

I would look for a new stove. I see around 500 just to get that stove back to running condition. 250-300 for the blower and 100 for the glass, how are the burn tubes? they are another 100.

 

[stamello]

Yep I can confirm this. I have the Rainier 90. It is called the 45 because of the angle of the back/top where the flue exits. On the 90, it comes straight out the top.

This is a great insert and I love mine. Avalon does make a blower for it, although mine came without and still heats 1250 sq ft of a partially-reinsulated/partially replaced windows 1950's ranch. I plan to add the blower soon. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to post the link directly, but here is the link to the owners manual: (broken link removed)

I noticed from the pictures that I can't see the handle for the air control. It should be under the ash shelf on the bottom of the stove. I can't tell if it's missing or just hidden out of view from the angle of the picture, but there should be something there. Pushed in = more air, pulled out = less air. Of course the glass is the main concern now, but you wouldn't want to use the stove without air control either.

The issues with the install are indeed numerous and have been pretty well covered already. The advice you will get on this forum is the best there is.

Mine looks like this with the air control handle off to the lower right side (at least that's what I think it is):
(broken image removed)
Up is more air, down is less. but I could be wrong about that lever...
With this unit could I still have the blower without the legs? It looks like the blower attaches to the bottom of the unit, but mine sits right on the hearth.

 

[dave_376]

Mine looks like this with the air control handle off to the lower right side (at least that's what I think it is):
(broken image removed)
Up is more air, down is less. but I could be wrong about that lever...
With this unit could I still have the blower without the legs? It looks like the blower attaches to the bottom of the unit, but mine sits right on the hearth.

there are two different blowers for this stove. one is a bottom/back mount and the outer is a front mount. you would need the front mount, it mounts below the ash lip and blows into the rectangle openings and exhausts on the top of the stove.

 

[Snotrocket]

I would be looking at a free standing stove with a hearth like that.

If that was my house I would put an Englander NC 30 sticking out from that fireplace and run a 6 inch liner up the chimney.

The whole thing will cost you less than $1500 and you won't have to worry about it.

You should also get your money back from the ding bat who installed that stove pipe in your chimney and report him. He's going to burn somebody's house down.

 

[stamello]

Well, this thread has been sitting for half a year because I'm not sure what to do. I had a chimney sweep come in. He took everything apart and ran a camera up with chimney. He confirmed that the bottom part of the chimney is old (1920s), and that the top part of the chimney was recently (1980s) added and has a clay tile liner.
However, he also saw something that neither of us expected. At first I didn't believe him, so I climbed up the interior of the chimney to check it. There is a wooden beam running through the chimney between the 1920 and 1980 part. It's about 10 feet off the bottom of the fireplace. You can see it in the picture below.
Now what? Can I run a liner in the chimney if it's got that beam there?
(broken image removed)

 

[begreen]

Oy vey!

 

[Ashful]

Hah... I think I need to go back and read this one carefully. I'm experiencing deja vous... or my worse nightmare.

 

[Ashful]

Okay... read it all in detail. When I joined this forum, I was in the process of shopping around for a second wood stove, and was visiting various local dealers to check out the options. One local dealer, who just happened to be a Jotul / Hearthstone / Lopi shop, insisted my old house needed a "level 2" inspection before making plans to install anything. My house was built in the 1770's, and they had one installation years prior where a similar house caught fire, due to wooden beams penetrating the chimney, of which they were not aware.

For liability reasons, the stove shop doesn't do their own level 2 inspections, but they send a local chimney / masonry company out to do them. After a few reschedulings, it worked out that I was not able to be here on the morning of the inspection, but I was surprised to receive an inspection report stating there was a wood beam running thru my chimney. This was supposedly almost 30 feet up inside of the chimney, where like yours, my chimney transitioned from old work (1770's stone) to new work (1800's brick).

Many weeks of discussions, debates what to do, and many unanswered questions from me to the inspector, revealed that he never did the full camera probe work he told me he had done. More arguments over what I had paid for, and eventually some work on my own to put my self-lighted handheld camcorder up thru the chimney on a tree pruning pole, revealed that what this idiot inspector was citing as a wood beam was really red brick. I made them come back out, finally perform the camera inspection I had originally paid for, and confirm that there was indeed NO WOOD in my chimney.

Much ugliness, argument, accusations, and another bogus quote of $10k to install a liner into my chimney followed. However, I was able to work with another (honest) NFPA sweep, along with the liner manufacturer (Duravent), to get the job done safely, and for roughly 20% of what the first clown was trying to take from me.

Moral of the story... wood looks a lot like brick, and vice versa, particularly when covered in soot and out of arm's reach. Unless I can see it up close, stick an awl in it, etc., I wouldn't believe it.

Call around, and find a sweep with camera equipment for performing level 2 inspections!

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Dam bud, I hope these great guys can help a nice person like you, I'm sorry that inherited these issues, good luck my man

 

[dafattkidd]

Joful, that story is terrible. Ugh.

Stamello, I have to tell you the first thing I thought when I read your post was, "that's probably NOT a wood beam." I can't see it from the picture, but I'd get in there and super confirm that before taking any majorly invasive steps. I work in houses every day, and I've seen a lot of bogus crappy work, but the chances of that being a wood beam seem to be very slim. See if you can get a high quality, professional sweep to investigate your chimney.

 

[mellow]

I mentioned it in Joful's case when he thought he had wood, check out supaflu.com and see if you have any dealers in your area, have them come out and see what they think, since they specialize in older chimneys I am sure they will have a solution, or at least they could guide you to what others have done.

 

[Ashful]

I mentioned it in Joful's case when he thought he had wood, check out supaflu.com and see if you have any dealers in your area, have them come out and see what they think, since they specialize in older chimneys I am sure they will have a solution, or at least they could guide you to what others have done.

Not a bad suggestion, but first you need to confirm 100% whether or not that is really wood. I will be floored if it is. 1980 is very recent, and I don't think wood was any more acceptable in a chimney then, than it is now.

 

[stamello]

Joful, that story is terrible. Ugh.

Stamello, I have to tell you the first thing I thought when I read your post was, "that's probably NOT a wood beam." I can't see it from the picture, but I'd get in there and super confirm that before taking any majorly invasive steps. I work in houses every day, and I've seen a lot of bogus crappy work, but the chances of that being a wood beam seem to be very slim. See if you can get a high quality, professional sweep to investigate your chimney.

I'll crawl up there and check again. Both the chimney sweep and I saw it as wood, but you're right - I'll doublecheck to make sure before I do anything else.

 

[stamello]

I mentioned it in Joful's case when he thought he had wood, check out supaflu.com and see if you have any dealers in your area, have them come out and see what they think, since they specialize in older chimneys I am sure they will have a solution, or at least they could guide you to what others have done.

I'll check them out - thanks

 

[stamello]

So

Okay... read it all in detail. When I joined this forum, I was in the process of shopping around for a second wood stove, and was visiting various local dealers to check out the options. One local dealer, who just happened to be a Jotul / Hearthstone / Lopi shop, insisted my old house needed a "level 2" inspection before making plans to install anything. My house was built in the 1770's, and they had one installation years prior where a similar house caught fire, due to wooden beams penetrating the chimney, of which they were not aware.

For liability reasons, the stove shop doesn't do their own level 2 inspections, but they send a local chimney / masonry company out to do them. After a few reschedulings, it worked out that I was not able to be here on the morning of the inspection, but I was surprised to receive an inspection report stating there was a wood beam running thru my chimney. This was supposedly almost feet up inside of the chimney, where like yours, my chimney transitioned from old work (1770's stone) to new work (1800's brick).

Many weeks of discussions, debates what to do, and many unanswered questions from me to the inspector, revealed that he never did the full camera probe work he told me he had done. More arguments over what I had paid for, and eventually some work on my own to put my self-lighted handheld camcorder up thru the chimney on a tree pruning pole, revealed that what this idiot inspector was citing as a wood beam was really red brick. I made them come back out, finally perform the camera inspection I had originally paid for, and confirm that there was indeed NO WOOD in my chimney.

Much ugliness, argument, accusations, and another bogus quote of $10k to install a liner into my chimney followed. However, I was able to work with another (honest) NFPA sweep, along with the liner manufacturer (Duravent), to get the job done safely, and for roughly 20% of what the first clown was trying to take from me.

Moral of the story... wood looks a lot like brick, and vice versa, particularly when covered in soot and out of arm's reach. Unless I can see it up close, stick an awl in it, etc., I wouldn't believe it.

Call around, and find a sweep with camera equipment for performing level 2 inspections!

Sorry for your experience. I'll crawl up there and check it again. I would be overjoyed if mine was red brick...

 

[Ashful]

FWIW... I did call Supaflu last year, at mellow's suggestion. They indicated they could do nothing to help, in my case. Their definition of "wood in the chimney" was timbers touching the masonry outside of the actual flue, not wood physically inside of the flue.

 

[begreen]

Joful's chimneys were the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned wood in there. See if that 'wood' can be carved or sawed.

 

[mellow]

FWIW... I did call Supaflu last year, at mellow's suggestion. They indicated they could do nothing to help, in my case. Their definition of "wood in the chimney" was timbers touching the masonry outside of the actual flue, not wood physically inside of the flue.

Don't remember you posting that, will have to keep that in mind.

 

[Ashful]

I don't think I ever posted it, as I was a little confused by their response, and still not 100% of their take on it. It's worth giving them a call, but my take-away was that "wood in the chimney" meant built into the masonry of the stack, but not protruding into the flue.

 

[mellow]

Guess I overestimated the insulation properties of the materials they use, they talk it up like it is better than insulated stainless steel liners.

 

[Foragefarmer]

If it is wood and is at the connection from the old to newer section of chimney, maybe it was blocking used by the masons and accidentally left in the chimney. In which case you should be able to get it out. Where is the chimney in the house? Could it really be a beam in the chimney? IE have you taken measurements and crawled around in the attic or whatnot to try to locate the beam outside the chimney?

A floor plan of the house would be interesting to see.

 

[firefighterjake]

Chimney sweep/co-worker said he was cleaning a chimney once and found a propane gas line that the installer had run straight through the chimney for easy access . . . needless to say he told the homeowner that using the chimney as it was would not pass muster.

 

[stamello]

If it is wood and is at the connection from the old to newer section of chimney, maybe it was blocking used by the masons and accidentally left in the chimney. In which case you should be able to get it out. Where is the chimney in the house? Could it really be a beam in the chimney? IE have you taken measurements and crawled around in the attic or whatnot to try to locate the beam outside the chimney?

A floor plan of the house would be interesting to see.

Maybe it's blocking, but I don't want to cut it out before I know for sure.
The chimney was extended in the 80s when the second story was added to the house. The piece of wood seems to be in the right spot to be a part of the second story floor (I'm not saying it is, but the height of it is level with the second story floor).
I need to crawl up there again and measure everything and drill into the piece...

 

[mellow]

I would get one of those drill bits they use for fishing wire and see if you can drill into it from down below. Lowes carry's them in the electrical aisle.