Whitfield died?

[Mt Bob]

If it starts back up and runs,turn off and unplug,to save the board you repaired.I highly suspect a wire has a rubbed through spot somewhere,could be very tiny.One old school way,put inline fusees in the power feed wires to all 3 motors,smaller amps than main fuse.Will leave you some info links,not all apply to your stove,but good stuff.http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/lowlimit.htm http://butkus.org/whitfield_operate/whitfield_operate.htm https://www.scribd.com/document/153792908/Advantage-II-T-Classic-Pellet-Stove-Manual. And--KF7BBL

 

[Bugs]

Did it start back up after replacing the fuse? (this time)

Yes, it was working fine auger was working correctly. I’m thinking problem solved, then I heard the fuse blow. I bought the fuses at Home Depot they match the rating of the original.(amps-volts). Wiring all appears to be fine. And now with a new fuse the auger is running all the time again....on or off :-(

 

[Stovensen]

The fuse on my control board is rated 6 Amps and it's an F type ( F= fast action ). The Amp rating of the fuse in a 120 Volt stove is probably a little higher.

Try a test run with both blowers and auger motor unplugged. If fuse pops now, something is shorted on the board. Otherwise plug each load in one at a time, until the fuse blows.

If you have a good ampère meter you could insert the probes from this instead of the fuse and take a reading of the current that is drawn, and also see if the current is fluctuating violently ( periodic failure? )

Good luck and take care.

 

[Mt Bob]

Yes, it was working fine auger was working correctly. I’m thinking problem solved, then I heard the fuse blow. I bought the fuses at Home Depot they match the rating of the original.(amps-volts). Wiring all appears to be fine. And now with a new fuse the auger is running all the time again....on or off :-(

So the fuse blew,and took out the triac again?Time to do what I said with inline fuses.

 

[Bugs]

So the fuse blew,and took out the triac again?Time to do what I said with inline fuses.

Yes, it took out the triac AGAIN! I didn’t do as Bob suggested in time..I did get extras (triac and varistor) but I just don’t get where it is shorting, guess I’m going to have to uninstall and go through all the wiring with a fine tooth comb.

 

[Mt Bob]

Newer electronics are much better protected,your old board is not.Used to be common to install separate inline fuses in older stoves.Good luck.

 

[Bugs]

Newer electronics are much better protected,your old board is not.Used to be common to install separate inline fuses in older stoves.Good luck.

Here are some pictures before it was cleaned what wires would you put inline fuses?

 

[Mt Bob]

The hot side of the motors.close to control,busy right now,will check your manual and get back to you later.

 

[Mt Bob]

Your wire colors may be different.The main thing is to be on the hot leg,does not do any good to be on the ground leg.

 

[Mt Bob]

I put x where I would do it,could be either side of terminal board

 

[Bugs]

I would assume an inline fuse rated the same that is on the board.

 

[Mt Bob]

I would assume an inline fuse rated the same that is on the board.

No,I would go lower,you are testing/protecting individual items,not the whole system,that way if one goes,will not damage board.

 

[Stovensen]

Bugs, this could explain, why your stove keeps blowing the auger-triac and the fuse: The auger rotation is restricted ( worn out Nylatron bushing ). This extra load on the motor overheats the auger-triac so much that it melts down after some minutes and turns into a permanent short circuit. Now auger motor gets 120 Vac constantly through the shorted triac, and this will eventually blow the fuse.
I bet your stove originally had a 3A fuse installed, since there's no igniter, right?
In this old thread several Advantage stoves had the same issue like yours. One user "cured" it by upgrading to a 6A fuse, but the correct remedy is to inspect the auger bearing for any restrictions due to wear. Most likely it's just the Nylatron bushing that needs replacement.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...making-me-go-bald-pulling-my-hair-out.116588/

 

[Bugs]

Bugs, this could explain, why your stove keeps blowing the auger-triac and the fuse: The auger rotation is restricted ( worn out Nylatron bushing ). This extra load on the motor overheats the auger-triac so much that it melts down after some minutes and turns into a permanent short circuit. Now auger motor gets 120 Vac constantly through the shorted triac, and this will eventually blow the fuse.
I bet your stove originally had a 3A fuse installed, since there's no igniter, right?
In this old thread several Advantage stoves had the same issue like yours. One user "cured" it by upgrading to a 6A fuse, but the correct remedy is to inspect the auger bearing for any restrictions due to wear. Most likely it's just the Nylatron bushing that needs replacement.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...making-me-go-bald-pulling-my-hair-out.116588/

So if the triac melts down and creates a short, wouldn’t the auger run nonstop for a period of time before the fuse blows? I’m not seeing that happen. The stove is running normal and then I hear the fuse pop (loud) and after replacing the fuse it now runs continuously (auger). However it does make some sense, it seamed like when I span the auger by hand replacing the auger it seemed to hang up a bit like something was jammed. Then it seemed to free up?

 

[Stovensen]

The stove is running normal and then I hear the fuse pop (loud) and after replacing the fuse it now runs continuously (auger).

If we could have measured both the torgue produced by the auger motor and the current flow trough the triac, and also have had a data logging system record the exact time for these events, I'm sure the curves would have peaked at the same time. The loud sound you hear, must be generated by the stuck auger shaft losing its torgue very abruptly, when power is cut by the burnt fuse.
The melting of a fuse thread inside its glass tube is quite silent.

However it does make some sense, it seamed like when I span the auger by hand replacing the auger it seemed to hang up a bit like something was jammed. Then it seemed to free up?

Time to pull the auger shaft for a closer inspection. If your stove has the older Oilite bronze bushing, I strongly recommend upgrading to the Nylatron version, but this requires the purchase of both a new endplate and Nylatron bushing:
(broken link removed to https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUGER-BEARING-ENDPLATE-for-WHITFIELD-PELLET-STOVE-PP4010-12153900-13650072-/401052357998)

 

[Bugs]

If we could have measured both the torgue produced by the auger motor and the current flow trough the triac, and also have had a data logging system record the exact time for these events, I'm sure the curves would have peaked at the same time. The loud sound you hear, must be generated by the stuck auger shaft losing its torgue very abruptly, when power is cut by the burnt fuse.
The melting of a fuse thread inside its glass tube is quite silent.



Time to pull the auger shaft for a closer inspection. If your stove has the older Oilite bronze bushing, I strongly recommend upgrading to the Nylatron version, but this requires the purchase of both a new endplate and Nylatron bushing:
(broken link removed to https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUGER-BEARING-ENDPLATE-for-WHITFIELD-PELLET-STOVE-PP4010-12153900-13650072-/401052357998)

Usually fuses die a peaceful death, but 2 out of 3 where loud and left the fuses black inside. I’ll empty my pellets again and pull the auger.

 

[Mt Bob]

And,(I know you do not want to hear this) there have been cases that control boards blow the fuse/short after running for a while.

 

[Bugs]

Pulled the auger motor off, cleaned out the hopper. Been spinning the auger by hand and no hang ups... it does have about 1/4 in of play in/out not really any excessive play. It was definitely hanging up the first time I had the motor off, but I also had a lot of sawdust I was trying to remove old pellets.

 

[Ssyko]

If the armature slides up / down it wil lose alot of its torque because of the armature moving out of the manetic field the coil is producing. They use nylon and phenolic washers/shims to keep it centered. So if you power the auger up while holding it you can see the armature move down(usually) from the worm gear made into the shaft. That pulls it into the gearbox. You can add more washers to that end of the shaft to make up for the wear. But it only going to be a temp fix, might get an hour might get a year. Never know

1/4” up n down is excessive

 

[Stovensen]

Something like this must be blocking your auger. 1/4 '' clearance is way too much.

"The auger blades were hitting the back plate"

 

[Don2222]

Now I think about it we had a stove last year that was blowing fuses. I finally found it by unplugging the power to the low limit, high limit and vacuum switches. I also unhooked the power to the auger. I started the stove and reconnected everything one at a time. When I connected the auger the fuse blew. It ended up a "new" auger motor had a short in it.

I found a similar issue. The insulation melted off one of the auger motor wires and shorted to the stove body, and caused the igniter to burn out and blow the fuse!
On another stove a shorted igniter kept blowing the fuse!

 

[Bugs]

That maybe what I am experiencing, I’ll order the nylatron endplate you suggested, or is there more to do? Do I also need to replace the bushing and get spacers. Than I still have to get my board fixed again, I did get an extra triac and veristor just in case, should I replace them both again.

thank you all for the great help.

 

[Stovensen]

Do I also need to replace the bushing and get spacers.

How much is left of the bushing in your stove? Is it nylon or bronze?
It is the bushing that keeps the lower part ( the auger blade ) in safe distance from the back plate. A spacer or a washer should not be needed. At least not when all parts are new. When things get worn heavily, a spacer could help keeping a safe distance, but wouldn't it increase friction? The Nylatron bushing in my stove has been working well for ten years without any spacer.

Are there obvious signs of your augerblade grinding on the endplate? Can you post of pic the involved parts?
You need to inspect the entire auger mechanism for abnormal wear or damage.
If your stove had a Nylatron bushing from new, there's no need to buy the extra endplate, just the Nylatron bushing. A bronze bushing has a different diameter, so different endplate.

I did get an extra triac and veristor just in case, should I replace them both again.

Since the auger runs continously, the triac must be replaced. The varistor I would remove permanently and instead run the stove with a quality surge protector. An even better solution is an UPS ( Uinterrupted Power Supply ) and not much more expensive.
Keeping my fingers crossed on your success with the stove.

 

[Bugs]

How much is left of the bushing in your stove? Is it nylon or bronze?
It is the bushing that keeps the lower part ( the auger blade ) in safe distance from the back plate. A spacer or a washer should not be needed. At least not when all parts are new. When things get worn heavily, a spacer could help keeping a safe distance, but wouldn't it increase friction? The Nylatron bushing in my stove has been working well for ten years without any spacer.

Are there obvious signs of your augerblade grinding on the endplate? Can you post of pic the involved parts?
You need to inspect the entire auger mechanism for abnormal wear or damage.
If your stove had a Nylatron bushing from new, there's no need to buy the extra endplate, just the Nylatron bushing. A bronze bushing has a different diameter, so different endplate.



Since the auger runs continously, the triac must be replaced. The varistor I would remove permanently and instead run the stove with a quality surge protector. An even better solution is an UPS ( Uinterrupted Power Supply ) and not much more expensive.
Keeping my fingers crossed on your success with the stove.

I haven’t pulled the auger out yet, will do that today and take pictures. I’m sure this is the original plate.
If I remove the veristor will I need to jump the holes left ?

 

[Stovensen]

If I remove the veristor will I need to jump the holes left ?

NO ! by no means jump the holes left. This will blow the fuse immediately. The varistor is connected between the hot phase and neutral. It has to be, you know, in order to absorb surges on the mains supply.
Remember: The varistor is a Voltage Dependent Resistor that is shunting the surges by turning into a very low resistance, when the applied voltage is over a certain threshold.
But don't remove the varistor, unless you have an external surge protector of a good quality. The TrippLite I mentioned earlier in the thread is one of the best.
Looking forward to see what's left of the bushing.