Where has customer service gone

[zrock]

it sucks about the housing situation but the same thing is happening in my area and the "adults" are making it work. Im sorry but $3g by 4 people is only $750 a month plus utilities, so even at a min wage job they are making enough to cover, if not they are trying to live beyond their means in other ways.. I hear the same argument up here with it being i work at walmart and i want to live in a million $$ home. Walmart should be paying me more as i cannot afford to live, but i do not want to go out and get a trade or any type of schooling to better myself i want to do the least amount possible. henc why customer service is so bad..
Where i do feel bad about the housing situation is for the single parents... without a partner or god family support they are screwed..

 

[Ashful]

You guys still don't understand. These are not young kids, they are adults working at least full time many have 2+ jobs. The real estate scene is crazy.

Time to vote with your feet, and move out of the city. Not sure what any of this has to do with customer service, unless we're also going to pretend that many of us haven't already spent most of our lives commuting into the city for work, everyday.

 

[gthomas785]

it sucks about the housing situation but the same thing is happening in my area and the "adults" are making it work. Im sorry but $3g by 4 people is only $750 a month plus utilities, so even at a min wage job they are making enough to cover, if not they are trying to live beyond their means in other ways.. I hear the same argument up here with it being i work at walmart and i want to live in a million $$ home. Walmart should be paying me more as i cannot afford to live, but i do not want to go out and get a trade or any type of schooling to better myself i want to do the least amount possible. henc why customer service is so bad..
Where i do feel bad about the housing situation is for the single parents... without a partner or god family support they are screwed..

Your logic is flawed - first of all, someone has to work the customer service jobs. Of course most of these people do end up going out and getting a better job. But the customer service job is still there, and they're scraping the bottom of the barrel for employees. If you want quality customer service, then they need to be paid like it's important.

Minimum wage is 31k a year, taxed at 12% leaves you with $27k or 2300 a month ignoring state taxes. Rule of thumb is as soon as housing goes over ~1/3 of your after tax income you will be in trouble for paying the rest of your expenses (healthcare, utilities, groceries) etc. so your limit for housing is right around $750 a month or 1/4 of a bedroom. If you want anything more comfortable than that you're sol.

 

[gthomas785]

Time to vote with your feet, and move out of the city. Not sure what any of this has to do with customer service, unless we're also going to pretend that many of us haven't already spent most of our lives commuting into the city for work, everyday.

I did, and I commute 80 miles round trip, every day.
Even when I was trying to buy my house out in the boonies, I wasn't getting approved for a mortgage on my then 90k salary alone. Had to get my wife to co-apply with me.

 

[weee123]

Get a better job than minimum wage then. If you have no aspirations beyond working a minimum wage job than tough doodoo. Don’t act like living comfortably doing the minimum is a human right.

 

[gthomas785]

Get a better job than minimum wage then. If you have no aspirations beyond working a minimum wage job than tough doodoo. Don’t act like living comfortably doing the minimum is a human right.

Sure. not disagreeing with you. The thread topic was how to improve customer service when nobody wants the job because they can't survive on the pay.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Well, if they can’t get somebody to bite on the salary offered, then they’ll have to pay more. I much prefer the market figure this out than govt mandates on it.

 

[gthomas785]

Well, if they can’t get somebody to bite on the salary offered, then they’ll have to pay more. I much prefer the market figure this out than govt mandates on it.

I don't think anyone is talking about government intervention. OP asked why customer service sucks and I'm pretty sure this is why.
I'm sure you've heard that there's a labor shortage and about how "nobody wants to work anymore". Most companies would much rather cut wages than improve their customer service. And then whine about how they can't find workers. Fact of the matter is there are plenty of competent people who would be glad to do the job if they paid enough. They're not asking for much, just idk a place to live and some food and health insurance?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You mentioned a 1/3 rule for rent/housing. Fannie/Freddie use 28% for Principal Interest Taxes Insurance and 36% of gross income

 

[Ashful]

Your logic is flawed... If you want quality customer service, then they need to be paid like it's important.

You're working on assumptions, not actual data.

Back when I was managing employees, I had to go through regular annual training, and got credit for any outside training and coursework I take on myself, considered in determining raises at annual reviews. One thing I clearly remember was literally countless studies, all of which reached the same conclusion: raising someone's pay will never incentivize them to do better work more than a few weeks out past the date of the raise. The way you get better work from employees is by setting high expectations and leading by example. Pay is the reward for work well done, and never incentive for future work.

The poor customer service you are experiencing is the result of poor management, and raising one's pay without resolving that issue will not improve the situation. I have actually seen one case where employee morale and performance increased, while pay simultaneously decreased, during a change in company management. By your logic, you'd assume that's not possible, but it all comes down to the management.

I'm not saying pay couldn't be better, either. I'm just saying that this is not the reason you're seeing poor customer service. Separate issues.

 

[gthomas785]

You're working on assumptions, not actual data.

Back when I was managing employees, I had to go through regular annual training, and got credit for any outside training and coursework I take on myself, considered in determining raises at annual reviews. One thing I clearly remember was literally countless studies, all of which reached the same conclusion: raising someone's pay will never incentivize them to do better work more than a few weeks out past the date of the raise. The way you get better work from employees is by setting high expectations and leading by example. Pay is the reward for work well done, and never incentive for future work.

The poor customer service you are experiencing is the result of poor management, and raising one's pay without resolving that issue will not improve the situation. I have actually seen one case where employee morale and performance increased, while pay simultaneously decreased, during a change in company management. By your logic, you'd assume that's not possible, but it all comes down to the management.

I'm not saying pay couldn't be better, either. I'm just saying that this is not the reason you're seeing poor customer service. Separate issues.

Why do you think they have such bad management though? My premise from my first post was and remains that the cause is primarily economic - retail budgets have been slashed and so the quality of all store functions (customer service, management, inventory, etc) gradually slid down the slope as a result. I agree that you can't just reverse that though, the damage has been done and you're right that raising the pay of an established employee will have limited impact. You'd have to reestablish in people's minds that customer service (and management thereof) can be a respectable career and attract good talent by consistently offering good pay and benefits and hiring competent management that doesn't constantly demoralize and demotivate the employees. This is something most retail stores can't afford to do due to their loss of sales to online shopping so I think we're stuck for now.

 

[ABMax24]

Customer service has changed, the person giving advice no longer resides in the store, they are on YouTube or social media where they can have a huge audience and (if successful enough) are paid equitably for their knowledge.

It's very rare these days that I walk into a store not knowing what I'm going to buy. In that sense I can go online and shop if the pricing is better. Meaning there truely is very little value left in customer service. The only place I still find value in customer service is at restaurants, but like most I reward good service with a tip, and poor service with no tip.

Useless people will remain just that, our local Walmart always appears fully staffed at $15/hr, and we can't find entry level people that want to take on a trade at $24/hr that would pay $45-$50/hr after 3-4 years. And we don't even work odd shifts, 7-5 Monday to Friday, paid 10hrs/day. Walmart you get stuck with evenings and weekends.

I don't get it, people can't correlate the fact that if they generate value or additional value for the company they work for the company can then afford to pay them more. If they don't generate value they are worth minimum wage, or the company is better to lay them off.

 

[zrock]

You're working on assumptions, not actual data.

Back when I was managing employees, I had to go through regular annual training, and got credit for any outside training and coursework I take on myself, considered in determining raises at annual reviews. One thing I clearly remember was literally countless studies, all of which reached the same conclusion: raising someone's pay will never incentivize them to do better work more than a few weeks out past the date of the raise. The way you get better work from employees is by setting high expectations and leading by example. Pay is the reward for work well done, and never incentive for future work.

The poor customer service you are experiencing is the result of poor management, and raising one's pay without resolving that issue will not improve the situation. I have actually seen one case where employee morale and performance increased, while pay simultaneously decreased, during a change in company management. By your logic, you'd assume that's not possible, but it all comes down to the management.

I'm not saying pay couldn't be better, either. I'm just saying that this is not the reason you're seeing poor customer service. Separate issues.

spoken like someone that has been through way to many management courses..LOL... been through them as well and only agree with some of the things... I do agree poor management = poor staff. Sad part in my area is all the new/younger generation that feels they are entitled are not out their working. 90% of our workforce in our area is east indians that have moved up here to work, not the locals that should be out their working.. I have no issue with that until i see 1/2 of those workers sitting on their phone while working, or do not even acknowledge you when they work for a delivery company and do not even say hi when they are dropping parcels off.. The last one really pisses me off as we get lots delivered at work and if i happen to be by the delivery door and they are on their phone or don't say hi i will actually comment to them that they need to improve their customer service and come back when they can..LOL

 

[Ashful]

Why do you think they have such bad management though?

Because those at the top are not doing their jobs. Simple, seen it a hundred times over. The example and expectations are set at the highest levels of the organization, and enforced down through the ranks. You can argue this is the result of low pay, but those who actually study such problems with data to back their conclusions, have concluded otherwise.

 

[Ashful]

spoken like someone that has been through way to many management courses..LOL..

Yes, I have been through too many, which is why I decided to leave corporate work and start my own small business. I like the tech work, more than managing people, even though the people I was managing were mostly very good employees.

Over 25+ years, I managed everything from hourly production workers, up to my last position of managing all six-figure salaried engineers with graduate degrees, and you'd be surprised at how many of the same problems and solutions are common between all groups. Pay is a reflection of how easily you're replaced, not of how hard you have worked or will work in a given role. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise!

 

[zrock]

exactly if the management cannot see the problem then they are not doing their job, and when management is part of the issue then the higher up is not doing their job.. I have also been in management for lot of years and would not hesitate to talk to my staff over issues and if they did not like to change show them the door..

Iv been through to many training courses as well and personally i think 50% of the course is BS. I have a different management and hiring process and it has never let me down and have always had a great staff..

 

[mcdougy]

20 years ago , this thread was somewhat summed up in my mind, when a man looked at me as we both were waiting for customer service and said "Pay bananas...Get monkeys".
I remind myself of this often as I stand waiting for help. It helps me get through the situation without losing my chit.

 

[NHWS]

Management is almost always the problem, pushed by the higher-ups. Customer service is a cost center, not a profit center. It costs bananas to have too few people who are only allowed to read from scripts. The scripts are written to get customers off the phone ASAP, assuming they even wait around past the perpetual "level of calls is high right now". Management is almost never actually interested in solving the customer's problem, since solutions almost always cost money. Customers whose issues are not solved, and often not even acknowledged, get frustrated and don't call back, saving money in the future. They may be reluctant to buy from that company again, but hey, that's what effective monopolies are for.

Been there, seen that. The approach is well understood and mostly deliberate.

Dealing with small, local companies gives one better odds.

 

[zrock]

Management is almost always the problem, pushed by the higher-ups. Customer service is a cost center, not a profit center. It costs bananas to have too few people who are only allowed to read from scripts. The scripts are written to get customers off the phone ASAP, assuming they even wait around past the perpetual "level of calls is high right now". Management is almost never actually interested in solving the customer's problem, since solutions almost always cost money. Customers whose issues are not solved, and often not even acknowledged, get frustrated and don't call back, saving money in the future. They may be reluctant to buy from that company again, but hey, that's what effective monopolies are for.

Been there, seen that. The approach is well understood and mostly deliberate.

Dealing with small, local companies gives one better odds.

haha.. yep that about says it... everytime i have to deal with customer service i tell them not to read from the script as i have already tried all that...

 

[joop]

if i remember correctly my untrained wife had to go to work cashier at grocery chain,at the beginning of covid,before people new if it was a full on killer or not to keep you in food and such. minute it's finish treated like a schlep.told her next time just stay home and screw em.

 

[NHWS]

everytime i have to deal with customer service i tell them not to read from the script as i have already tried all that...

On the rare occasions that I hold my nose and call "customer service", the first I thing I always say to the person who answers the phone is "transfer me to a supervisor". Sometimes it works.

The people who answer the phones are just as much victims of this system as the customers are, but I'm afraid that doesn't always stop me from getting very annoyed with them when their scripts deny reality.

 

[zrock]

On the rare occasions that I hold my nose and call "customer service", the first I thing I always say to the person who answers the phone is "transfer me to a supervisor". Sometimes it works.

The people who answer the phones are just as much victims of this system as the customers are, but I'm afraid that doesn't always stop me from getting very annoyed with them when their scripts deny reality.

yes that is the truth... unfortunately i have gotten pretty pissed off at a few when calling in to support, strange enough after i loose my cool they start to listen and actually quit reading their script and help me.. Since most call centers are over seas as well several times i have had to hang up and call back several times until i actually found someone that i could understand. Nothing worse than trying to get help when their is a language barrier

 

[Ashful]

I really never have these problems. Sure, I know the first line of defense is usually someone even less knowledgeable than me about the product, and just reading a script. But I answer their simple questions, and then it's quickly escalated to the next level of someone who can actually think and help, usually with pretty good knowledge of the product and/or issues.

Once in a very great while, the script reader actually nails my problem, if it's a known and documented issue. That's rare, but it has happened.

 

[zrock]

here is another good lack of customer service.. I purchased a wifi outdoor plug and had issues getting it to connect to my wifi, eventually i had to do a direct connection to my phone. Emailed the manufacturer asking a simple question, received a response back from them asking if i needed help...LOL.. 2 weeks later i have not received a response back from them..

 

[vbu]

I really never have these problems. Sure, I know the first line of defense is usually someone even less knowledgeable than me about the product, and just reading a script. But I answer their simple questions, and then it's quickly escalated to the next level of someone who can actually think and help, usually with pretty good knowledge of the product and/or issues.

Once in a very great while, the script reader actually nails my problem, if it's a known and documented issue. That's rare, but it has happened.

This is exactly my approach as well and I've always been helped in the end. There's no point making the person on the other side of the line miserable, or make them feel stupid. They're just doing their job. Your chances of being transferred to someone who can actually help you go up exponentially if you're nice to them, and answer the couple of questions they have before their script dead ends.
What's the saying, can't catch flies with vinegar?