I have had this year some REALLY dry Ash wood that has caused some very high (1000) degree flu temps. this is if the actual log was touching the back wall of the stove low enough to the holes at the bottom. very loud rumble. to fix it i would open the door and move the wood off the wall. i stopped using that wood and stick mostly with oak...it burns slower i guess so the temp stay aroun500-550 in the stove pipe.
Vermont Castings Blowtorch Sound on Reload
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no, on the inside of the double wall. i have the thermometer that goes inside the pipe 18inches above the stove.
Oh ok. Lol. That would have been crazy.
Do you get black glass on the top of the glass? I get it in the same spot on my stove every burn.
![[Hearth.com] Vermont Castings Blowtorch Sound on Reload](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/309/309029-eeae9d766df499f839203adace86d2d1.jpg?hash=lR1JL0uqCb "[Hearth.com] Vermont Castings Blowtorch Sound on Reload")
i get black glass yes. its in a pattern though. def behind the andirons. i stopped cleaning it, it doesnt matter what i do it gets black. the dryness of the wood is a big factor. my wood is good this year but in years past the only clean glass burns i had were when i added a sawdust tractor supply log to the fire. i would wake up to perfect glass. i think i cleaned my glass so often that i made an air leak between the glass and the door.
Yeah, if you look at the attachment on the last post, it's black from one clip to the other, door to door. Makes a semi circle. I can't figure it out. I do have air getting in from the top lid. I confirmed it with a smoke test. The dealer has been useless though. Won't get back to me.
i havent gone to the dealer at all. i figured all the issues i was having was "operator error" but clearly its not with everyone having the same issue. what i really want is to get another stove completely. something with no cat , maybe with the tubes ....something that makes more sense to me unlike the stupid downdraft. i have friends with 20 and 30 year old stoves that just plain work. this 3000$ POS drives me up the wall every day.
I feel the same way. I don't have the cat in mine yet, I'm hoping that will help. I love the look of the stove, but the way it works is terrible. For 3k, the airwash for the glass should work.
I have about 2 feet of single wall pipe before it gets to my liner, and when I hear the blow torch sound, the highest I've seen it get is 450ish on the outside with an IR thermometer. Is it not common to see the flue temps skyrocket during an over fire in the combustion chamber? The manual has nothing about how to run the stove without a cat, so when I read about the blow torch sound being an over fire, I can't help but think they mean when there is a cat installed. Someone in the VC specific forum mention how the combustion chamber wouldn't get to 1200 without a cat. If that's the case, should we even worry about the blowtorch sound when running without a cat? I would measure the temps myself, but my stove is in a fireplace, and I'd have to pull it out to install a probe. A job for the off season.
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The stove design is flawed. There's really no other way to put it. In a lab, controlled setting, maybe it works fine - but for real world environments these are the worst stoves to own apparently. Not only that, VC didnt learn from their mistakes. They continue to fine tune their pig in order to keep their top loading feature a thing. Im finally at a point of acceptance and can operate my stove fairly well, but it does take babysitting and experience to get it to the point that you arent playing what I called...
VC Roulette...what behavior will I land on today.
Overheating the cat is pretty common, but as others have pointed out getting that great bed of coals and catching a load w/ primary open first seems key. Not saying you wont continue to overheat the cat area, but it will be less and less often. Unless of course, you have a 24' chimney or 14.5' or 17% wood instead of 18-20, or it's less than 35% humidity, a quarter moon, a tattoo of a fish on your arm...(list 100 other conditions when the VC just wont work well no matter how hard you try)
Just ask Dale Bowman from saskatchewan canada
. This guy went through the wringer on similarly design VCS.In the end, if I can get my hands on a Jotul at the end of winter I will sell my VC. If anything I can say by then I gave the VC a GOOD try and then try out the Jotul and compare my experiences. I dont see many people complaining about those, and it's less expensive. Go figure.
Edit: Im not saying I hate the VC. Im very happy that I feel like I figured out how to operate this stove quite well, with clean glass and a fairly clear flue pipe when it's operated within a very strict set of parameters, that are fairly easy to keep within as long as you do not disregard warning signs and pay extra attention through the first few hours of a cold startup. However, I do have to consider that other members of my family should be able to operate this with some level of ease and free of fearlessness. I also have that itch to find out if this stove is really that much of a POS, or if it is possibly all EPA stoves.
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i bought the cat, it was no help. 300 bucks down the drain.i should have kept my money.
Yea I felt the same way. When I first started telling my tale of woes in these forums, it was usually met with ah check your wood, check your draft, check your wood again, operator error, several others have stoves like yours and they use them fine it must be you.
Well, they werent all wrong, it was me to some degree. I just didnt realize that some of what I was doing was the opposite of what I should be. And thinking that I was going to run the stove sub 450 and not create alot of creosote was a farce that I believed due to a couple of sales pitches, that I WANTED to listen to because I really liked the VC and the top loading.
The cat, for me, really didnt do much. I can say that I noticed less smoke but not a significant amount less when burning low. SO I set out to figure out how to burn as cleanly as possible without it keeping it warmer. I will reserve the cat for the times that I really want to burn but it's not that super cold outside and I want to let it burn around 400 STT all the time.
yeah...top loading and smoking out your house hahaha !
i run mine whatever temp it gets to while dampered down to the 3rd click. thats it,every time.all coals to the back, 2 or 3 good size pieces and 3 clicks. usually about 500or so SST plus the flue and Cat temp gauge in the middle of the range. cat thermometer is in but no cat.i would take it out but then id just have an empty hole in the side of the stove.
I will likely put my cat back in, now that I know that I get a 'free' one if this one fails within 6 years.
I should add, I do not have the problem of smoking coming in from the top hatch, unless of course I forget to open the primary. If I have nothing but coals though, I can open and toss a couple splits in even with the primary closed. Sometimes yes, if the wood is really smoking and I open the primary, and then the top hatch I'll get some smoke coming in. Usually I can foresee that happening though and I then just crack the lid open, wait a second or two, then open it a bit more, wait a second, then open it enough to do what it is I meant to do.
Up until a week ago I was burning without the cat. Temps on my auber are all over the place, sometimes maxing out around 1700 but not for long. I always figured the probe was in the flames. Now that I have the cat the stove is much more controlable.
That's interesting because you would think that further combustion would create higher heat.
I really didnt notice a difference to be honest, nothing that I could change with air control. With the cat in, I may have run a click lower, and that's likely because I have a big hunk of metal in the way now.
Yup, throw some wood in, close the damper, & watch the temp on the auber launch. It will settle down after a few minutes. What puzzles me is the occasional spike in temps that occur 3-4 hours after loading it for the night. Stove top, pipe, & auber will get up to the max. It hasn't happened sence I put the cat in.
Just found this thread. On my 5th winter running the dauntless. I concur generally with the comments, but I thought that this whooshing sound was FAD (functioning as designed) this whole time. This is my first year having the catalyst in the stove, I thought I would give it a try to see if I produce less creosote. I bought the dauntless because it was the smallest stove I could find that takes 16" logs. I put it in, using double insulated inside pipe and the home depot duravent, running straight up from the pipe about 4', then elbow through the wall (about 18" down from ceiling), then outside and up the gable end of the house with the duravent chimney pipe. I noticed year 3, the chimney cap (screened for bat control) was clogged up, so replaced that last summer.
1.) For my little 2 story 1300 sq ft this thing is a beast. It heats the entire house like nothing. So I cannot have it running full bore, otherwise i'll be opening windows, so I keep things dampered, both the left flap for forcing exhaust through the catalyst and the right side damper I keep about 4 clicks back, just about straight down direction, or maybe a little further back. I CANNOT keep the glass clean. I have been using easy off stove cleaner on the glass every 4 burns or so, or when I have time to clean it up.
2.) Once I get things heated high enough to turn the oscillating fan that I put on top of the stove (usually 350 on the thermometer I placed on the top loader), I will click the damper on the left side down to force the exhaust through the catalyst and I hear the jet turbine. Every time. I always though this was normal. Like I said, 5 winters now, always have heard it and yes, when it's really rushing it makes me a little nervous but I have never seen red hot pipe and the outside chimney pipe has ALWAYS been cold to the touch.
3.) All in all, this stove has been pretty good for me. Do I think it has too many moving parts? Does the thinness of the metal for the ashpan, damper doors, etc seem a little chintzy? DO I think that this many cast iron panels put together seems like a recipe for a bad design? Would I have bought a different stove had I only known about these issues - ESPECIALLY considering what I paid for thins thing?? Kind of, yes to all.
All of that said, I have also loaded this thing to the brim on a nice high bed of coals at 10PM, closed it down and woke up at 5AM to a warm house with the stove still burning away, so it's not like I can say with absolute conviction that this thing is a complete piece of chit. It does the job I ask of it, but it's finicky and you also have to keep your wits about you when using it, but is burning wood 100% safe and easy in any stove?
1.) For my little 2 story 1300 sq ft this thing is a beast. It heats the entire house like nothing. So I cannot have it running full bore, otherwise i'll be opening windows, so I keep things dampered, both the left flap for forcing exhaust through the catalyst and the right side damper I keep about 4 clicks back, just about straight down direction, or maybe a little further back. I CANNOT keep the glass clean. I have been using easy off stove cleaner on the glass every 4 burns or so, or when I have time to clean it up.
2.) Once I get things heated high enough to turn the oscillating fan that I put on top of the stove (usually 350 on the thermometer I placed on the top loader), I will click the damper on the left side down to force the exhaust through the catalyst and I hear the jet turbine. Every time. I always though this was normal. Like I said, 5 winters now, always have heard it and yes, when it's really rushing it makes me a little nervous but I have never seen red hot pipe and the outside chimney pipe has ALWAYS been cold to the touch.
3.) All in all, this stove has been pretty good for me. Do I think it has too many moving parts? Does the thinness of the metal for the ashpan, damper doors, etc seem a little chintzy? DO I think that this many cast iron panels put together seems like a recipe for a bad design? Would I have bought a different stove had I only known about these issues - ESPECIALLY considering what I paid for thins thing?? Kind of, yes to all.
All of that said, I have also loaded this thing to the brim on a nice high bed of coals at 10PM, closed it down and woke up at 5AM to a warm house with the stove still burning away, so it's not like I can say with absolute conviction that this thing is a complete piece of chit. It does the job I ask of it, but it's finicky and you also have to keep your wits about you when using it, but is burning wood 100% safe and easy in any stove?
Hello,
chrisjburg. I'll echo most of your comments about running this stove. Its a beast to get it to work. Near as I can tell the rumble is part of it. If mine is NOT rumbling with bypass closed, its smoking like a house fire. It has to make noise to work. I don't have a CAT as that was one of my criteria. I do NOT want a cat stove or to have to deal with them. It seems another layer of complexity and cost. I suspect also the problems with ridiculous CAT temps come from the overly finicky secondary burner. If its not lit and burning the CAT has to cash the check and that's a HUGE fuel load. I suspect that for those with high cat temps a bit more air and ensuring the secondary actually lit would have much better CAT behavior. I'm guessing the later stage temp spikes are the secondary burner stalling as the wood off gasses less or shifts around making secondary burn less favorable. Mine is supper sensitive to wood position. It has to be against the back opening to work.
I don't have the driest wood this year and that doesn't improve things. I've found that the coals have to be pushed all the way back covering the secondary burner opening and piling the wood against the back to get it to burn. Its super finicky. Once its happy and lit it will coast along with the air control 4-5 clicks closed. More than 5 closed is guaranteed to back puff/explode. Full closed is slightly better but it completely annihilates the glass. Only 4 closed leaves the glass good. There HAS to be flames present in the fire box. If the fire dies LOOK OUT!! Its VERY, VERY picky about this. The back puffing is a very real, very serious problem. This is also related to temperature and monitoring.
I suspect crap thermometers are part of the problems with this stove. I don't have an EGT probe or a stack probe because of the double wall pipe. Ive been using a surface thermometer on the stove but I've found it to be total crap. I found mine reads at least 150* too high. This was tested by placing thermometer on a cast iron skillet in the oven set at 450. Maybe not perfect but there is no way my oven is more than 600* when set to 450*. Before this trying to keep the stove below VC claimed max surface temp was nearly impossible and lead to all sorts of issues from running the stove too cold. A Harbor freight LASER thermometer gun is at least better and has greatly helped with stove performance and heat output. I may have to pay the piper and invest in decent thermometers.
All in all I'm happy with the stove now that I figured out how to reliably reload it and not back puff the house to death or smoke out the neighborhood. Knowing what I know now would I had done the VC Dauntless? Probably. Its poor behavior is not to be underestimated though. The thing looks like a million bucks and when its working properly burns like a champ. Time will tell on durability but for now I'm pleased. Also, nice thread revival...
Bullittman
chrisjburg. I'll echo most of your comments about running this stove. Its a beast to get it to work. Near as I can tell the rumble is part of it. If mine is NOT rumbling with bypass closed, its smoking like a house fire. It has to make noise to work. I don't have a CAT as that was one of my criteria. I do NOT want a cat stove or to have to deal with them. It seems another layer of complexity and cost. I suspect also the problems with ridiculous CAT temps come from the overly finicky secondary burner. If its not lit and burning the CAT has to cash the check and that's a HUGE fuel load. I suspect that for those with high cat temps a bit more air and ensuring the secondary actually lit would have much better CAT behavior. I'm guessing the later stage temp spikes are the secondary burner stalling as the wood off gasses less or shifts around making secondary burn less favorable. Mine is supper sensitive to wood position. It has to be against the back opening to work.
I don't have the driest wood this year and that doesn't improve things. I've found that the coals have to be pushed all the way back covering the secondary burner opening and piling the wood against the back to get it to burn. Its super finicky. Once its happy and lit it will coast along with the air control 4-5 clicks closed. More than 5 closed is guaranteed to back puff/explode. Full closed is slightly better but it completely annihilates the glass. Only 4 closed leaves the glass good. There HAS to be flames present in the fire box. If the fire dies LOOK OUT!! Its VERY, VERY picky about this. The back puffing is a very real, very serious problem. This is also related to temperature and monitoring.
I suspect crap thermometers are part of the problems with this stove. I don't have an EGT probe or a stack probe because of the double wall pipe. Ive been using a surface thermometer on the stove but I've found it to be total crap. I found mine reads at least 150* too high. This was tested by placing thermometer on a cast iron skillet in the oven set at 450. Maybe not perfect but there is no way my oven is more than 600* when set to 450*. Before this trying to keep the stove below VC claimed max surface temp was nearly impossible and lead to all sorts of issues from running the stove too cold. A Harbor freight LASER thermometer gun is at least better and has greatly helped with stove performance and heat output. I may have to pay the piper and invest in decent thermometers.
All in all I'm happy with the stove now that I figured out how to reliably reload it and not back puff the house to death or smoke out the neighborhood. Knowing what I know now would I had done the VC Dauntless? Probably. Its poor behavior is not to be underestimated though. The thing looks like a million bucks and when its working properly burns like a champ. Time will tell on durability but for now I'm pleased. Also, nice thread revival...
Bullittman
