UPS backup power

[DaveBP]

I’ve always been told to run deep cycle batteries down from time to time to extend the life so i will do that as well.

Don't do it, couchburner.

Lead/acid batteries last longest if the are kept full at a 'float' charge voltage that depends on the exact type of battery and the temperature. Any time a lead/acid battery is run down it takes some of the life out of it. The farther down it is drawn and the longer it is left that way the more the lead plates inside will sulfate and the battery loses capacity. One trick that lead/acid batteries do need once in a while is OVER charging once in a while. It's called equalize charging.

I think the run-it-down-flat advice comes from old ni-cad battery practice. But even that is pretty much obsolete, I believe.

Here's a very good read about batteries and other links on the site for good info on inverters and back-up power.

(broken link removed to http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Battery)

 

[maplewoodshelby]

Dave,
You may be right on that as I have no evidence to support what I have been told and seen for myself but I will stick to draining and recharging occasionally. I fish a lot and have so for 30 years. I used 12 and 24 volt deep cycle battery setups for most of that time 2-3 times per week. I would run the batteries down and they would be recharged that night. The batteries I did this way lasted much, much , much longer than those that would sit fully charged or would have an onboard charger hooked to them (providing float or trickle charge) Maybe the key was that they never set dead very long. I know that is bad for any battery

 

[Bricks]

For me any way my car batteries will be just fine....It`s not like our power goes out once a week. It may only happen once a year so the charge drawdown cycle is really almost non excitent. More likely die from non use.

A great way to keep batteries charged is a solar setup , they also help with avoiding sulfating inside the battery.

 

[DaveBP]

To quote from "Deep Cycle Battery FAQ": @ (broken link removed to http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Battery)

Lead-Acid batteries do NOT have a memory, and the rumor that they should be fully discharged to avoid this "memory" is totally false and will lead to early battery failure.

 

[JSJAC]

The power went out last night. The coldest night so far this year.I am very glad that I spent the time and money on our inverter back up system.

 

[91220da]

Hi guys, similar discussion regarding battery backup in this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/46402/

 

[Dave T]

I like the inverter and battery idea but that does not prepare you for a pump failure situation. Is an overheat loop still needed to be safeguarded in all situations? Dave

 

[julien]

I like the inverter and battery idea but that does not prepare you for a pump failure situation. Is an overheat loop still needed to be safeguarded in all situations? Dave

Very good point !

 

[easternbob]

Well it's been awhile but I finally purchased an inverter/charger with auto switch (AIMS 1500w). I hooked it up last night and it ran the circulator pump (although with a buzzing sound) and the controler fine BUT the fan just buzzed and would not spin. This inverter is a modified sign wave. I had the fan programed to be running at 50%. Just thinking now if I had the fan at 100% would it have worked? Any thoughts?
My draft inducer fan worked fine but I have that at 100%.
Thoughts??
Bob

 

[timberr]

Bob,

I have the AIMS 1500 Pure Sign model, it runs my fan fine at 50%. When you are running off of the inverter how many volts are displayed?

 

[easternbob]

Timberr,
I would have to check again to be sure but I think it was staying right at 12-14 v. When just the circ. pump was running it didn't even show anything on the amp/watt meter. When I turned on the fan it lit the lowest bar on the amp side, but just buzzed and would not spin.
Bob

 

[leatherguy]

I want to make sure I understand what previous posts said, I have apc 500 with dead battery if i figure out bat voltage i replace it with full size bat
and hook it up to electronics of apc ups and i should be good to go?

 

[easternbob]

Leatherguy,
I'm not electronics expert, but from what I've learned there might be a problem with hooking a full size battery to a regular UPS in that it can maintain the voltage in a fully charged big battery but can not handle the load of re-charging if it is drawn down to low. You would have to put the battery on a reg. charger.
Bob

 

[timberr]

easternbob,

Did you get a chance to increase the fan to 100%? What where the results? When I first tested min, I had all (3) circ's running, all 4 zone valves open and everything ran fine. I am at a loss. The only thing I can think is the EKO controller doesn't like the modified sine?

 

[leatherguy]

So after a power failure I simply unhook bat and give a charge than put it back in service. What voltage are apc ups bats normally?

 

[easternbob]

Timberr,
No I'm at work right now so won't be able to check till this evening. The EKO controller seemed to be working fine, or atleast the display looked normal and when I hit stop/start the fan would stop buzzing and then start again. I'm hoping running the fan at 100% (not 50%) will fix it. It would be nice to be able to keep plenty of heat going to the house (will have to figure out a system to power the zones and other cirs in the basement). It's good to hear you were able to run 3 cirs and the zone valves.
Bob

 

[barnartist]

I wired all the ac in my house. Still I feel as if I know so little about how this stuff really works for some reason. Thanks to all for all the helpful links.

I have an RV with a big solar setup, uses 2 deep cell batteries and a 3000 watt inverter. This system sits all winter without use. My first thought was how can I just hook it up to my boiler, but it seemed to complicated to figure out how to make it an automaded setup in the event of a power outage. If anyone has any ideas on if this is possible, please share.

I am thinking I can take the batteries out of the rv and use them in a system for the boiler, so if a guy was to buy the easyest setup, it sounds like a true UPS is the way to go, but what would you guys recommend the power numbers be?

Also, I just took a UPS ES box off of my cpu because the battery is toast (I think). This must be just a small version of what a guy needs out there on the boiler then, yes?

 

[ohbie1]

I wired all the ac in my house. Still I feel as if I know so little about how this stuff really works for some reason. Thanks to all for all the helpful links.

I have an RV with a big solar setup, uses 2 deep cell batteries and a 3000 watt inverter. This system sits all winter without use. My first thought was how can I just hook it up to my boiler, but it seemed to complicated to figure out how to make it an automaded setup in the event of a power outage. If anyone has any ideas on if this is possible, please share.

It seems that you have all and more than you need in the RV. The "automation" could consist of just a relay(SPDT) inserted in the line between the batteries and the inverter. This relay is controlled by house current. When there is house current, the relay is on, and the inverter is off. When the power fails, the relay goes off...BUT...this makes the inverter/battery circuit, and you are in business. You will need a second relay on the inverter/pump line, because the inverter output cannot see house current.
I assume that you do know how to connect the pump(s) etc. to the inverter output, since you have done wiring.

 

[barnartist]

I wired my boiler loop pump with an ac plug on the end so I can hook it up to my generator.
Whats bad is I need to learn about the wiring on the rv, I would not yet know where to put such relays, but would love to figure the sucker out.

 

[Gooserider]

So after a power failure I simply unhook bat and give a charge than put it back in service. What voltage are apc ups bats normally?

A lot depends on the unit - and since "there are no user serviceable parts inside" the APC people won't tell you... However, they seem to use standard "gel cell" batteries which come in 6 or 12 volt sizes, hooked up to do some multiple of 12 volts. I have a bunch of APC 900's that I put new batteries in but never sold, (if you wanted to come to MA to pick one up... they'd be cheap) and those used four 6 volt batteries in series, so you could substitute two 12v deep cycle batteries.

Gooserider

 

[easternbob]

Timberr,
Well I upped the fan motor to 100% and then tried the inverter and it worked fine. Once it was running I could slow the fan down to 60% no problem. I guess the fan just couldn't start up when it was at 50%. Still have some buzzing in both the fan motor and the circ. pump but they seem to be running fine.

In case anyone else is interested this is the inverter I purchased (actually they had a rebuilt unit on ebay, I purchased) http://theinverterstore.com/the-inverter-store-product.php?model=pwric1500w-top-rgb It easy to hook up since it's a inverter/charger with transfer switch built in. Great for those of us who aren't electrical engineers.

 

[timberr]

Good news Bob, there is no buzzing in my setup. This is probably do to the pure sine vs. modifide sine.

 

[easternbob]

My only concern now is if the power goes out when I'm not home or asleep and the inverter takes over, and then the boiler calls for heat (water temp down) my fan is going to try to start but won't be able to (I run my fan at 50% all the time, I don't have storage yet). Is this going to burn the motor up??? IF I'm around I can up the fan to 100% so that won't be an issue. But it seems like I spend more time at work than home at least awake.
Bob

 

[ohbie1]

My only concern now is if the power goes out when I'm not home or asleep and the inverter takes over, and then the boiler calls for heat (water temp down) my fan is going to try to start but won't be able to (I run my fan at 50% all the time, I don't have storage yet). Is this going to burn the motor up??? IF I'm around I can up the fan to 100% so that won't be an issue. But it seems like I spend more time at work than home at least awake.
Bob

Here's a possible solution:
I don't know what your fan control looks like. If it is a switch with positions, you could use a timer type relay to activate the 100% position. This relay would be activated by voltage from the inverter. Inverter on.......relay on (timed)......running the fan at 100%.......relay timer off.....fan drops to 50%. Timer relays are usually settable, so you could choose the length of time to run the fan at 100%.

 

[Fred61]

I wired all the ac in my house. Still I feel as if I know so little about how this stuff really works for some reason. Thanks to all for all the helpful links.

I have an RV with a big solar setup, uses 2 deep cell batteries and a 3000 watt inverter. This system sits all winter without use. My first thought was how can I just hook it up to my boiler, but it seemed to complicated to figure out how to make it an automaded setup in the event of a power outage. If anyone has any ideas on if this is possible, please share.

I am thinking I can take the batteries out of the rv and use them in a system for the boiler, so if a guy was to buy the easyest setup, it sounds like a true UPS is the way to go, but what would you guys recommend the power numbers be?

Also, I just took a UPS ES box off of my cpu because the battery is toast (I think). This must be just a small version of what a guy needs out there on the boiler then, yes?

Your RV should already have the relay, at least mine does. There's a box with a relay inside it in the same compartment as the inverter/charger. When you apply shore power to the RV the relay energizes and power is supplied to the inverter and also to certain outlets within the RV that do not get powered through the inverter. It sounds like somebody dropped a rock in a metel bucket. If your inverter is on and shore power is disconnected, the relay drops out and the outlets that are supplied by the inverter are then powered by the batteries through the inverter. You could basically wire your boiler electrics to any outlet that is powered by the inverter or breakers that supply the outlets. My RV isn't around in the winter. It has been put to bed in a nice heated warehouse for the winter.
BTW try not to burn up that relay. I was hanging around an RV repair facility waiting for my unit to get serviced and there was a guy there getting his relay replaced. I think it was about $500.00