Trouble!!

[jqgs214]

Classic!

 

[Tendencies]

It's amazing this post has had over 2200 hits in 3 days!! :ahhh: Talk about the power of the web!! ;-)

T

 

[Roospike]

Well, it's been quite a day, first the Dealer stopped by and took a couple pic's, we discussed the problem at length and he was very receptive to what I had to say, very polite and easy to deal with, said he had never seen anything like it happen to a stove. I told him and his wife about this web site, and all the posts you had all made and that another stove had popped up with the same problem, they were not aware that this place even existed. Needless to say, I think they must of logged on when he got home, got the jist of whats going here and called there rep's and inturn they must of gotten ahold of somebody at VC and walla!! Just got a call and I will have a new stove, properly welded, with bottom support within the next 2 weeks!! The weight isn't completely off my shoulders yet but I feel much better!! Thanks much people!!

T

So what is the deal with bottom supports ? Why does your stove not have them and what is different with the new stove? Are they adding bottom supports to the new stove? were the bottom supports left out when they made your stove ?

 

[Codeman812]

Along those lines, what thread has had the most hits and what did it number? Anyone know off hand?

It's amazing this post has had over 2200 hits in 3 days!! :ahhh: Talk about the power of the web!! ;-)

T

 

[[email protected]]

First of all I think I can solve the weld quality control issue. Bill. (tenmdencies) has liminte options as to what will fit his opening.
In general he is pleased with the heat vollume and burn times ,actually better than expected.

I fully support bringing in the heavy response if VC draggs its feet. You being new to the form have no Idea the influence I have concerning VC Did you know they gave a new red enamal Everburn Encore for the donor program Yeah the stove that test.7gph.
Also Preffese this the reason we here more about VC issues is their shear Vollume. The Vermont factory produces 50,000 stoves a year alone then their other factories in Canada and Indiana produce the plate steel line. There are over 2mill VC working stoves in homes. The reason we do not hear a lot about of other stoves, is there sampling is rather meager in comparison. Naturally one hears more VC issues than any other stove manufacturer What we do not hear is the millions of satisfied customers, only the few that experience QC issues


Part of my appeal to them is I share the patriotism of supporting Americam manufacturing and American Jobs. Imagine if the plant close what that would do the the small towns in VT. It would leave a void in ther economies that would take years to recover from if ther ever did.

If you followed this forum you will see the conflict of people wanting to ban wood smoke from all stoves the Flagship in this arguement it VC .7gph. I fear that if these negative post tear down a good stove manufacturer we all loose. Not one manufacturer had broken the 1 gph barrier before Vc did


So If I may use my influence and go about getting this issue resolved everbody comes out better. The forum also gains as its power and reconition makes it appealing that manufactures are standing up and taking notice. If I can not help push this along then bring in the heavy artillary and fire away. Each time issues can get resolved by forum influence all forum member gain
eventually and I am working on this other manufactures will not want me to be giving them a call or e-mail to get issues taken care of. And I have some influence to do this.

I told you about my wife pouporie spillage well at first I thought it was a warranty issue and got a hold ov VC I was getting
no where till I informed them that went presenting my seminar to all eastern states Inspectors in Albany that I would not present the best view of their products I reminded them I would be rubbing shoulders with the EPA Comsumer protection divisions of tour government including UL. Evidently they made a call to my state which confirmed I was who I said I was and that I was presenting seminars. I can tell you within one week it was sir what can we do for you and I had a new top



before you diss the crap out ov VC please tell me one other manufacturer that has personally solved stove issues on this forum?
Or is gennerous enough to donate stoves to help others? Tell me why there are millions of satisfied customers ,or do you support what little Amnerican manufacturing we have left. VC is comming out of a very precarious financial situation they are fragial and are banking on their flagship of clean burning. I hope they make it ,susceed and force other manufactures to compete towards clean burning . This is a case we all win. Lets see if this can be done expediently

You shouldn't have to be an inspector who has clout in the industry to get results. They only want to help you out if they think you can hurt them. The courts are the defense of the little guy.

 

[GVA]

Along those lines, what thread has had the most hits and what did it number? Anyone know off hand?

It's amazing this post has had over 2200 hits in 3 days!! :ahhh: Talk about the power of the web!! ;-)

T

This was pretty good https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4464/
Still wonder how they made out?

 

[DavidV]

Well I read the first 2 pages and skipped to the end. My 18 year old Appalachian has done us proud. I am considering replacing it next year and The Dutchwest was on my list. WAS! No way now. If this is indicative of VC products and service I'm definately steering clear.

 

[restorer]

Sometimes jerking the chain is more fun than playing it straight. I have some special business card. They are for those persons who think that the initials after the name are more important than skills they have.

So I have cards that read:

Uncle Rich, BA,BS,MA,MS,CA,DIDPT

Occasionally, I get the question, "So, I have the BA,MA,CA down, but what's a DIDPT?" And in a straight face I say, "Dealer In Dead Peoples' Things."

My local stove dealer had the best come-back I have ever heard. I bought my stove from his daddy twenty-two years ago. I also bought a Stove-Stat to use with it. Three or four years ago the Stove-Stat crapped out from the heat and I just never got around to looking for another one.

The father died six years ago and the "boys" now run the store. While I was picking up pipe I spotted a new Stove-Stat on the shelf and grabbed it. On the way to the register I ran into the oldest son and told him that I had a warranty issue with a Stove-Stat I bought there. It quit working and after only 18 years I think it is a warranty issue. Instant super response:

"BB there is no warranty on items you bought from dead relatives."

Cracked me up.

 

[TruePatriot]

wxman:

First, let me say I’m glad that both you and Tendencies' are getting the proper remedies. That was my purpose in trying to load Tendencies "consumer rights" gun with things to say--to AVOID having to go to the litigation stage. (Please see posts #35, 71 and 72 should you wish to refresh your memory.)

However, I take issue with the bolded portion of your remarks, below:

To be fair Tendencies post this on Friday or Thursday. His dealer is the Monday and VC has a new stove in the works. Seems like a pretty good response time to me. Just because they dont post it on this website, they let the dealer do his job. Hope I have the same happy outcome. Sure will be showing my dealerthe results here.

Edit: he posted on Friday near 4:00 PM sure they dont work Sat and SUN so Its a one workday Response. Cant ask for anything more and all you guys wan ted to SUE after 2 hours. (by wxman)

Please tell me who "all" those guys are who wanted to sue--at all, let alone, after only two hours?

You can start with my posts: #35, 71 and 72.

And, you're welcome for the assistance of my suggestions to Tendencies, of the kinds of things that can be said to a foot-dragging mfr., who needs to be informed as to how best to resolve a serious situation, for the benefit of BOTH parties, while AVOIDING LITIGATION. Everyone likes to be appreciated. :lol:


But again, I defy you to even one person who was “wanted to SUE after 2 hours.”

You see, words matter. For example, when I tried to explain to Elk, in post #72, that

Shipping defective product and mishandling the complaints is, again, the surest way to financial ruin. Remember Merck and VIOXX? At one point, there was speculation that the CLASS ACTION SUITS would, literally, cause the co. to fold.

…I knew we would soon see the totally understandable post by someone such as Davidv:

Well I read the first 2 pages and skipped to the end. My 18 year old Appalachian has done us proud. I am considering replacing it next year and The Dutchwest was on my list. WAS! No way now. If this is indicative of VC products and service I’m definately steering clear.

For the record, Davidv, I feel exactly as you do.


Now, wxman, I know you subsequently modified some of your original statements, evidenced in this exchange with TMonter:

If you read the original post, it took more than a week for the first response from VC and then they only replied after catching some heat from here on the boards.
It’s one thing to get a response that they are working on the problem and quite another to have to wait an entire week with an obvious stove defect. (by TMonter)

True I missed that part, but as soon as his dealer showed up it was same day service. The dealer may hold more clout in this case?? He buys Dozens of stove a year? Losing that hurts the bottom line more. I know thats not the best case but it did get the job done. (by wxman).

So I’m just asking for a similar clarification: please give me even one example of who is “all you guys wan ted to SUE after 2 hours. ”

I’ll give you one hint to get you started—it **** sure wasn’t me.

Have a nice day.

And to the group:

I believe it was Roo who first (and I believe correctly) raised the possibility that there is a design defect here. Roo (and I) now ask:

So what is the deal with bottom supports ? Why does your stove not have them and what is different with the new stove? Are they adding bottom supports to the new stove? were the bottom supports left out when they made your stove ?

You know, the addition of after-the-fact-fixes is no small matter. Now, I’m a little rusty on my law (haven’t practiced in many years) but I seem to remember a special part of evidence law dealing with just such a situation. I believe it holds that evidence of subsequent modifications is inadmissible in some situations, in product liability litigation.

Here’s the rationale: if you don’t give mfrs. some protection on this point, they’ll avoid making needed fixes, which can later be used against them to prove a defect. Mfr's not making needed fixes would lead to more potential injury and death, so let's encourage them to make the necessary fixes, by not allowing the evidence of those "redo's" into the trial. (And like most evidence law, I'm sure there are multiple exemptions.)

My point here is not to apply an actual law to this situation, but to point out that the addition of a subsequent “patch” IS A BIG DEAL. If it were not, the law would not have evolved special rules and exceptions to general evidence law, to deal with just such situations.

Therefore, I think Roo's question is a very good one—let’s read it again, as I’m hoping someone will comment on it:

So what is the deal with bottom supports ? Why does your stove not have them and what is different with the new stove? Are they adding bottom supports to the new stove? were the bottom supports left out when they made your stove ?

Peter

 

[Tendencies]

Well as I stated, there is still no bottom support coming on or with the stove, my dealer made hand made shims and placed them under the stove to hold it up, may stop the stove from drooping down but I don't think it will stop the welds from letting loose. As a side note, the Consumer Protection Agency is now handling my case and is also interested in the Weathermans stove as well so I would expect some serious repercussions to happen sooner or later....ie a recall or something else....... As the season is now over for heating, it won't be until next winter before I know how this new unit will hold up..

T

 

[Fire Bug]

Well as I stated, there is still no bottom support coming on or with the stove, my dealer made hand made shims and placed them under the stove to hold it up, may stop the stove from drooping down but I don't think it will stop the welds from letting loose. As a side note, the Consumer Protection Agency is now handling my case and is also interested in the Weathermans stove as well so I would expect some serious repercussions to happen sooner or later....ie a recall or something else....... As the season is now over for heating, it won't be until next winter before I know how this new unit will hold up..

T

Hi T,
I definitely think you made the right decission with filing a safety report with the CPSC. They are a great organization.
I hope your response from them is as quick as mine, (two days, start to finish), thanks to a field investigator, Laurie Lovelace.
She was one heck of a dedicated individual who pursued my problem and complaint with a unbelieveable amount of dedication.
The idea of the shims sounds like a piss poor, half assed, solution to your problem. Which engineer designed this? It sounds really high tech and took alot of brain power.
This is suppose to be well constructed and designed unit. If you wanted this kind of "Bush League Fix", you could of probably used a 55 gallon drum for a insert and saved much ching.

John

 

[elkimmeg]

These stoves are economy line plate steel stoves. The only this different is the castiron loading door option, than the plate steel body of century stoves These are not $3500 Woodstocks but in line with Endlanders and Droits.. I agree about the support should be there, and agree that comsumer agiencies should be informed and that issue persued.

To clarify it is hard to get BMW engineering in a Hugo or expect it