Trouble finding a N/S loading stove....

[realstihl]

I thought the Drolet Escape 1800 was more of a E/W loader. The firebricks only look about 13" deep. Is this different from your stove?

View attachment 152653

It's not a true N/S loader but the fire box is 16.5 deep. I cut most of my stuff 14-16' so it works either way. The Enerzone 2.3 has the same size firebox and is advertised as a front to back or side to side.

(broken link removed to http://enerzone-intl.com/en/heaters/solution-23-stove)

 

[MontanaSam]

Seems like the resounding advice is to keep the fire box small-ish, right around 2.0. What I'm taking from this is that with a larger stove, I'll heat myself out of the living space, correct? If I keep it around 1.9-2.2 (lets say) firebox size, I can regulate the temp in a small space much better?

Top candidates are Super 27 (still too expensive, but seems like the best bet)
And original thought, TN19, cheaper and what I'm looking for, regardless of 1.9 firebox size. I like the look of these two stoves best, like the flat-top too, seems practical.
Then the Heatilator Eco Choice WS18....also a good looking stove. Within budget as well.

 

[begreen]

You control the amount of heat needed to keep the place warm by regulating both the amount of fuel fed to the stove and the amount of air. If you don't need a lot of heat make a smaller, hot fire and let it go out. In sizing the stove there does come a point in a very well insulated home where one can get too large to run the stove efficiently. In that case the stove is essentially idling all the time. It's like using a 4 ton truck as a daily driver when all it's doing is picking up groceries. If the max BTUs the house will ever need is 40K/btus per hour then having a stove the can put out 60K/hr is useless.

The choice of stove is going to depend on the house construction. There are different ways to make a place tight and efficient. This is one place where money invested will pay back. Conventional construction will just go with 2x6 walls and fiberglass insulation. That design still allows thermal bridging via each and every exterior wall stud. It can be dramatically improved upon by wrapping the house envelope in foam board insulation. Or build with a staggered 2x4 wall for an 8" wall thickness and no thermal bridging. After the basic construction is settled, your best bet would to be to do the heat loss calculations on the house and go from there for stove sizing.

 

[Grisu]

Seems like the resounding advice is to keep the fire box small-ish, right around 2.0. What I'm taking from this is that with a larger stove, I'll heat myself out of the living space, correct? If I keep it around 1.9-2.2 (lets say) firebox size, I can regulate the temp in a small space much better?

Top candidates are Super 27 (still too expensive, but seems like the best bet)
And original thought, TN19, cheaper and what I'm looking for, regardless of 1.9 firebox size. I like the look of these two stoves best, like the flat-top too, seems practical.
Then the Heatilator Eco Choice WS18....also a good looking stove. Within budget as well.

Since you seem to be looking for a budget mid-size stove I will throw in another one: The (new) Englander Madison. Here is a thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/madison-in-my-burn-trailer.128150/ The firebox looks pretty square, so you can load N-S or E-W, as you prefer. It is still a special order item meaning you need to ask at the desk of an Englander retailer that they order it for you. Cost is reportedly ~$900. A forum search will reveal some more threads about it.

However, I would suggest to take a good look at the Super. I have the insert version and no complaints. It costs a bit more but over the lifetime of the stove it is not that much and I am pretty sure you will be very happy.

 

[shoot-straight]

Given your budget you are in a bit of a pickle. I would look for a 2cu used stove. I used a small regency this fall, and I liked it. As others have said, a small cat would be best i think. A small hearthstone would work too. The soapstone will be less likely to cook you out. Metal stoves can simply be too overwhelming. All that said, the englandar line is the best bang for the buck it seems.

 

[MontanaSam]

Thank you all, have focused my efforts on three stoves, listed below. They are all pretty comparable, however after seeing and messing around with the stoves in person, I admire the Super 27's superior construction, and seems like an all around better made stove. Both the TN19 and WS18 seemed like great choices too though. WS18 firebox seemed a little more square though, as some have suggested, E/W or N/S loading.

Went around today after work and stopped by two stove shops in town. Looked at three stoves, and their prices (in USD)

TN19 selling for $1200.00
PE Super 27 selling for $1800.00
Heatilator WS18 selling for $1100.00

All those are bare, no blower, no ash pans, etc. Pedestal bases.


Any opinions? Do stove sellers flex the prices a bit, as in could you bargain them down? Those prices seem slightly higher than what I've been seeing on the internet....anyone have buying tips?

 

[Mr.Stroker]

My Napoleon 1400 was $1500 with the door, ash pan but no blower. I'm also supposed to get a $125 rebate and I think that's still going on. I added a blower and even on negative days the main room is over 80

 

[begreen]

Thank you all, have focused my efforts on three stoves, listed below. They are all pretty comparable, however after seeing and messing around with the stoves in person, I admire the Super 27's superior construction, and seems like an all around better made stove. Both the TN19 and WS18 seemed like great choices too though. WS18 firebox seemed a little more square though, as some have suggested, E/W or N/S loading.

Went around today after work and stopped by two stove shops in town. Looked at three stoves, and their prices (in USD)

TN19 selling for $1200.00
PE Super 27 selling for $1800.00
Heatilator WS18 selling for $1100.00

All those are bare, no blower, no ash pans, etc. Pedestal bases.


Any opinions? Do stove sellers flex the prices a bit, as in could you bargain them down? Those prices seem slightly higher than what I've been seeing on the internet....anyone have buying tips?

That's the highest price I've seen for a TN19. They are selling at our local hardware stove for $799. The Super 27 will deliver longer burn times and easier service and cleaning.

 

[Seanm]

Any opinions?

I can only speak for the 27 but if i had a chance to do it over again and the option was available I would have avoided the ash pan. I packed mine with ash and never used it again after the first couple of clean outs. Some here really like them and others have had issues with them leaking. I think there may be a thread or two here about the subject. I paid $1600 for mine three years ago in BC with no blower.

 

[ChadD]

Enviro 1700 series 20" N/S

 

[rdust]

Lol this thread is hilarious - almost everyone is chiming in with their own stove!

Almost everyone thinks their stove is the "best" stove when in fact most of them are wrong because my stove is the best stove out there!

 

[rdust]

I'm not sure why you're stuck on a non cat, for a smaller well insulated living space a cat stove is the way to go. A BK stove with a cat you could oversize and still be ok since you can dial them way down. 24 hour burns all season long sounds like a great thing to me.

I burned a Lopi Endeavor which loaded n/s for 2 seasons, it was a good well built stove. Others have mentioned the PE Super 27, a lot of happy users around here. Honestly it's hard to go wrong with a lot of these stoves. PE, Jotul, Lopi(Travis Industries), Englander etc. Look at the stoves that meet your criteria then go with the one your wife likes.

 

[Mr.Stroker]

I wish I would have started looking into a stove in the summer and I think I would have got the BK just for the burn times.

 

[jeff_t]

I can only speak for the 27 but if i had a chance to do it over again and the option was available I would have avoided the ash pan. I packed mine with ash and never used it again after the first couple of clean outs. Some here really like them and others have had issues with them leaking. I think there may be a thread or two here about the subject. I paid $1600 for mine three years ago in BC with no blower.

The ash dump is silly. Anything combining linkage and a trap door with wood ashes makes no sense.

The blower can be added later if you don't want to spring for it now.

 

[iluvjazznjava]

I run a Jotul F55 and load it N-S. 18" splits.

View attachment 152582

I too run the Jotul F55 and can attest it is a good stove, but its probably overkill for 1,200 sq ft (they rate the F55 for 2,500 sq ft). However, its little brother the Jotul F45 Greenville is very similar, just smaller. It's rated to heat 1,500 sq ft and Jotul says on their website that it can handle an 18" split in a N/S loading setup.

(broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/jotul-f-45-greenville)

 

[Knots]

Lol this thread is hilarious - almost everyone is chiming in with their own stove!

It's the only one I have experience with!

 

[realstihl]

It's the only one I have experience with!

Yep, pretty hard to comment on someone elses stove. I also don't think my stove is the best.

 

[RiverLogger]

I'll jump on the Super 27 bandwagon. I had an Englander 13 before my Super 27 and will say my OPINION is the Super 27 is far superior to the 13. It's twice the price too!! The baffle design of the 27 is bulletproof compared to the ceramic board found in the lesser models(like the TN19). I still smile everytime I look at the 27 sitting in the living room.

I will also say your quoted prices seem high to me. I bought my 27 this summer for $1550 out the door. It's the same model you're looking at, Heritage with pedestal. I also looked at the TN19 and the price was $950.

Good Luck

 

[begreen]

You got a good price for your Super 27. It pays to shop around a bit.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsup27.htm)

 

[eclecticcottage]

I'm not sure why you're stuck on a non cat, for a smaller well insulated living space a cat stove is the way to go. A BK stove with a cat you could oversize and still be ok since you can dial them way down. 24 hour burns all season long sounds like a great thing to me.

I burned a Lopi Endeavor which loaded n/s for 2 seasons, it was a good well built stove. Others have mentioned the PE Super 27, a lot of happy users around here. Honestly it's hard to go wrong with a lot of these stoves. PE, Jotul, Lopi(Travis Industries), Englander etc. Look at the stoves that meet your criteria then go with the one your wife likes.

Never had one but from everything I've read I agree. Wish BK had the Sirocco and/or Ashford when we were looking.

I was thinking Republic 1750 based on budget and CU firebox size. We burn a lot of pine in ours. Full load won't make it the 10 hours burn time but you should have coals for a quick restart.

 

[Topstove]

Love my Englander NC-30. I installed myself with a duravent ss liner for $1200 total.

 

[MontanaSam]

Wanted to ask another question of the panel here; went ahead and purchased the Super 27, waiting to finish dry walling to install it in the house. I've installed a high efficiency electric furnace in the basement with a duct work system that should circulate the heat pretty well, this will be able to run without the furnace operating, to hopefully circulate the wood heat better. The stove is located almost dead center of the house, with a chase going up through the master bedroom and out the roof near the peak.

Assuming I want to stay reasonably warm, and am burning entirely fir, larch, spruce and pine, how many cords can I expect to go through in a well insulated, brand new house with a "smart"-thermostat and furnace set to 50 degrees F? Northwestern Montana location. Any advice on what I need to put up this summer wood wise?

ps; I have become absolutely hooked on wood cutting. Just bought an old 3/4 ton and have been hauling larch rounds from National Forest clear cuts like I have a disease with only one cure. Traded an old shotgun for a Stihl 311...holy smokes, nice upgrade from my Toyota truck and Husqee 435.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations, it's a great stove. Wood consumption is hard to tell there are so many variables. As a guess, with 1200 sq ft, small bedrooms above the main living room, very compact, tight and efficient design it could be as little as a couple cords, but have at least 3 on hand for starters. The Super 27 does well with softwood. I would burn the pine and spruce in the fall/spring and the fir and larch in the colder weather. The main thing is to get it split and stacked asap. Split some on the smaller side (3-4" splits) for quicker drying. In your climate the wood should dry pretty quickly.

 

[Grisu]

You can never have too much firewood. Whatever would be left after the winter you can just burn the next one. Given Montana's winter and that your wood does not have the highest BTU value I would put up at least 4 to 5 cords. (Knowing how much fuel (oil/gas) you usually use during one winter would also give you a pretty good indication how much wood you will need.)

 

[begreen]

It's a small, well insulated place. Shouldn't take too much too heat. What will determine consumption is the length of season and how much the primary heating system is used in conjunction with the stove. Doug fir is not too bad for btu value, but Larch (Tamarack) is much better. It has a higher btu content than soft maple and elm, almost the same as ash and walnut and dries out pretty quickly when split too.