Total Creosote Blockage After 1-2 Fires

[rippinryno]

I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern. I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time. Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.

 

[Whiskey Fun]

I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern. I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time. Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.

I'm curious as to what stove you're burning?

 

[rippinryno]

I am burning an nashua NfP, it's got a firebox and then a rear mounted blower that vents to the sides. It is vented out the back of the stov so i have a 90 degree coming out and a 90 to go through the wall, then another 90 to shoot it straight up once it's outside.

 

[Whiskey Fun]

I answered one of earlier questions about how to remove what I was told was a FLEXIBLE SS liner (it's rigid. I figured they used a flu extension for the top). After trying to secure a rope to the bottom with a 4x4 brace, only to have it snap and watch my liner fall to the basement clean out, I was left with only one option.

Now this may not be the most prudent or easiest way to remove a rigid liner, but it's certainly the most satisfying and enjoyable way. I grabbed my trusty sledge and opened up a little access hole in the basement above my clean out door. Gave a couple taps through the thimble from the blunt end of the sledge to make a crease. Went downstairs, a few taps to make another crease, and bit by bit, pulled this mother-expletive out!

SO MUCH FUN Here's some pics of the carnage. Is it me, or is there more creosote on the outside of my liner than most of you probably have on the inside???

 

[claydogg84]

I answered one of earlier questions about how to remove what I was told was a FLEXIBLE SS liner (it's rigid. I figured they used a flu extension for the top). After trying to secure a rope to the bottom with a 4x4 brace, only to have it snap and watch my liner fall to the basement clean out, I was left with only one option.

Now this may not be the most prudent or easiest way to remove a rigid liner, but it's certainly the most satisfying and enjoyable way. I grabbed my trusty sledge and opened up a little access hole in the basement above my clean out door. Gave a couple taps through the thimble from the blunt end of the sledge to make a crease. Went downstairs, a few taps to make another crease, and bit by bit, pulled this mother-expletive out!

SO MUCH FUN Here's some pics of the carnage. Is it me, or is there more creosote on the outside of my liner than most of you probably have on the inside???

That looks like just single wall stove pipe, not flex. I had tagged bholler hoping he would give you advice on how to remove the existing pipe as he does this sort of thing for a living. Looks like you got it out though, so what are your plans now?

 

[claydogg84]

I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern. I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time. Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.

Most people come to this forum to learn how to safely use/install their heating device. He noted that your setup is illegal because it's a safety issue that should be addressed. This is not only for the sake of having insurance, but to keep the risk of you burning your home down to a minimum.

 

[Whiskey Fun]

That looks like just single wall stove pipe, not flex. I had tagged bholler hoping he would give you advice on how to remove the existing pipe as he does this sort of thing for a living. Looks like you got it out though, so what are your plans now?

I was hoping the same thing but I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. The plan is to order up 30' of liner. Now do I get the regular flex stuff, the smooth wall flex, or rigid? It's a straight run with 7" x 11" terra cotta. The only narrow part I can see is where the clay thimble enters. A 6" liner with insulation wrap will be tight. 5" or 5.5" will be perfect. Planning on getting one them there EPA cert'd stoves this summer (or maybe as a Christmas present to myself). So what would be best for a nice long straight run?

 

[rippinryno]

Most people come to this forum to learn how to safely use/install their heating device. He noted that your setup is illegal because it's a safety issue that should be addressed. This is not only for the sake of having insurance, but to keep the risk of you burning your home down to a minimum.

absolutely, something i fully understand. There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage. I due diligence to keep and eye on things, if i do not see creosote issues i do not believe I am at risk. It is new this year so I am keeping my eye on things. This also doesn't make it right but i have country neighbors with the same style setup who have been burning for decades, they do replace their outside pipe as needed, however they've been doing it for a long time. again, none of this makes it right, i just want to clarify the reason i postedin this thread was to explain that cool flu temps won't cause a buildup like that in only 1 or 2 burns, at least not in mjy experience.

 

[Whiskey Fun]

absolutely, something i fully understand. There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage. I due diligence to keep and eye on things, if i do not see creosote issues i do not believe I am at risk. It is new this year so I am keeping my eye on things. This also doesn't make it right but i have country neighbors with the same style setup who have been burning for decades, they do replace their outside pipe as needed, however they've been doing it for a long time. again, none of this makes it right, i just want to clarify the reason i postedin this thread was to explain that cool flu temps won't cause a buildup like that in only 1 or 2 burns, at least not in mjy experience.

So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?

 

[claydogg84]

So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?

I would go with a flex myself, but I don't have enough experience in this field for my opinion to be considered reliable.

 

[rippinryno]

I would go with something a professional recommends for you to use. I'm not a good example and if you're in a house you need to do it right.

 

[bholler]

So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?

We typically only use flex now. Rigid is a good liner but it is a pain to install and the fasteners in the joints can and do fail. Pretty much all we use for wood now is heavy wall flex liner. It is smooth inside and out and is as durable as rigid without all of the fasteners that can fail. As far as pulling it out you are done now so it doesnt matter much but we use a hoist usually with pair of vise grips clamped on to the liner pull it up some and cut it off. repeat that till you can pull it by hand. I have also done it with a rope wrapped around the liner stand on the chimney and squat down and put the rope over your shoulder. Then lift with your legs. I have also had to do basically what you did as well as a last resort.

 

[begreen]

So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?

Rigid does not mean regular interior black connector pipe! It means a stainless steel rigid liner. If it is inside the chimney as a liner it must be stainless steel whether it's flex or rigid.

If you have a straight shot down the chimney with plenty of clearance I like stainless rigid. It is totally smooth on the inside and heavy duty. Some think it a bit harder to install but that is exaggerated if the run is large and not bends. What you need is a good pop rivet tool, stainless rivets and a method to hold the sections in place while you rivet the next section. That method could be a helper, a ratchet strap or a rope.

 

[begreen]

absolutely, something i fully understand. There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage.

Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?

 

[bholler]

If you have a straight shot down the chimney with plenty of clearance I like stainless rigid. It is totally smooth on the inside and heavy duty. Some think it a bit harder to install but that is exaggerated if the run is large and not bends. What you need is a good pop rivet tool, stainless rivets and a method to hold the sections in place while you rivet the next section. That method could be a helper, a ratchet strap or a rope.

Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed. Each type has their benifits and faults. I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases. But to each their own. Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.

 

[jb6l6gc]

We typically only use flex now. Rigid is a good liner but it is a pain to install and the fasteners in the joints can and do fail. Pretty much all we use for wood now is heavy wall flex liner. It is smooth inside and out and is as durable as rigid without all of the fasteners that can fail. As far as pulling it out you are done now so it doesnt matter much but we use a hoist usually with pair of vise grips clamped on to the liner pull it up some and cut it off. repeat that till you can pull it by hand. I have also done it with a rope wrapped around the liner stand on the chimney and squat down and put the rope over your shoulder. Then lift with your legs. I have also had to do basically what you did as well as a last resort.

why do you prefer the smooth over the corrugated. Just curious as I have the spiral corrugated. Id think the corrugated would be better, I find as it expands and contracts it knocks most the crap down to the bottom tee where I can vac it out.

 

[begreen]

Ben, were these coal stove flues? Stainless steel rivets are unlikely to fail. The problem is when folks don't use the right material and don't do the job properly. When I pulled our 8 yr old stainless liner it was like brand new, rivets and all.

 

[jb6l6gc]

Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?

highly doubt theres any approval on anything on that with the way he's described his reasoning and install. Didn't know safety stopped at the city limits I'm in rural country and even the old timers around me have smartened up for thew most part on their methods. Although my neighbour told me his dad used to clean the chimney by pulling the stove pipe showing a big wad of paper in the flue and lighting up the chimney ... absolutely nuts if you ask me.
His dad has since passed and im sure some of these methods have passed with this generation too. He couldnt even believe they way some things used to be done when he was a kid on the farm.

 

[bholler]

Ben, were these coal stove flues? Stainless steel rivets are unlikely to fail. The problem is when folks don't use the right material and don't do the job properly. When I pulled our 8 yr old stainless liner it was like brand new, rivets and all.

Some of them yes and yeah after 8 years they should be ok but when i put a liner in i want ti to last 30 years. Most rigid liners we work on over 15 years or so have atleast one loose joint.

why do you prefer the smooth over the corrugated. Just curious as I have the spiral corrugated. Id think the corrugated would be better, I find as it expands and contracts it knocks most the crap down to the bottom tee where I can vac it out.

The smoother the walls the less turbulence there is which means better draft and less buildup.

 

[jb6l6gc]

the smoother the walls the less turbulence there is which means better draft and less buildup.

when you put it like that makes total sense.

 

[jb6l6gc]

in your professional opinion what are the normal life spans of stainless liners and class A chimneys. Or is it all subjective to how they are taken care of?

 

[bholler]

in your professional opinion what are the normal life spans of stainless liners and class A chimneys. Or is it all subjective to how they are taken care of?

taken care on and good quality i would say 30 years

 

[Whiskey Fun]

Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed. Each type has their benifits and faults. I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases. But to each their own. Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.

Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed. Each type has their benifits and faults. I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases. But to each their own. Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.

Bholler, when you say double layer smooth wall crap, are you referring to the pre-insulated stuff? I was actually looking at this http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Bulk-Chimney-Liner/6-Easy-Flex-Pre-Insulated-Chimney-Liner just because of the ease and "neatness" of the insulation. But I don't mind the extra work if heavy wall flex is that much better. Thanks.

 

[rippinryno]

highly doubt theres any approval on anything on that with the way he's described his reasoning and install. Didn't know safety stopped at the city limits I'm in rural country and even the old timers around me have smartened up for thew most part on their methods. Although my neighbour told me his dad used to clean the chimney by pulling the stove pipe showing a big wad of paper in the flue and lighting up the chimney ... absolutely nuts if you ask me.
His dad has since passed and im sure some of these methods have passed with this generation too. He couldnt even believe they way some things used to be done when he was a kid on the farm.

I am not claiming safety stops in the country, however there are many things you can do in the country that are illegal in town, burning brush piles, burning trash in burn barrels, taking down trees without a permit or insurance, etc, etc, etc. I am also not trying to provide reason just wanted to give some input here, my apologies.

Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?

Since you asked, in my area it is not illegal to heat a garage with solid fuel, in fact I can think of several businesses with shops that are heated with wood as well. One is a muffler shop of all things, the other is a body shop and there is also a power sports business that heats they're building with wood.

Again, just to clarify i don't want to jumble up this thread with my install situation i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.

 

[maple1]

i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.

That's fine - but by extrapolating your experience of a cold flu not making creosote, to rule out that is what is happening here, would then also extrapolate to mean it would not happen anywhere. I'm quite sure cold flues can make creosote, even though you're not seeing it.

Hope this thread plays all the way out to a resolution - there should be lots of learning potential for others if a cause & solution can be found.

EDIT: And to add a bit more input on that, I am feeling quite sure that the chimney is pulling air with less resistance from the bottom of itself (the cold cleanout area), than it is from the narrowed stove pipe section. Suspect the smoke from the stove is lazily travelling into the chimney T, where it is immediately being hit by a cold upward blast from the cleanout. Stack effect could even giving that a boost - but don't know much about the area the cleanout is in.