The cheese they try to put in stove now
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one of my englanders, the NC13 ,has ceramic boards and while they may be more fragile compared to other designs it serves it purpose very well and i could probably replace it 10 times over and still have less in it than some of the high dollar big names on the market .I bet alot of issues come into play from mishandling the wood jammed up carelessly.
I've had my Quad for several years now and have not cracked the board yet (knock on wood). Maybe it is because the tubes below shield it some. Compared to my last Quad though with the 30 pound steel baffle, it's a lot easier to handle when cleaning the insert, though it has to be handled very carefully.
Now, about those flimsy firebricks....
Now, about those flimsy firebricks....
Secondary baffle is built into a stainless box with ceramic blanket on top, then a stainless top cover. Same as the Summit.
Jotul F3CBs have a galvanized steel baffle in them. It is going to be real interesting to see how long that lasts.
BrotherBart said:
I never had to replace a baffle in a 3cb, and we've dealt w/ jotul for around 10 yrs now.
velvetfoot said:I've had my Quad for several years now and have not cracked the board yet (knock on wood). Maybe it is because the tubes below shield it some. Compared to my last Quad though with the 30 pound steel baffle, it's a lot easier to handle when cleaning the insert, though it has to be handled very carefully.
Now, about those flimsy firebricks....
firebrick is another... although it is an itam very commonly avail. my summit came with pumice like bricks in the bottom and sides, and it took us a year to start carrying them because of that, but the baffles sold us after that
summit said:velvetfoot said:I've had my Quad for several years now and have not cracked the board yet (knock on wood). Maybe it is because the tubes below shield it some. Compared to my last Quad though with the 30 pound steel baffle, it's a lot easier to handle when cleaning the insert, though it has to be handled very carefully.
Now, about those flimsy firebricks....
firebrick is another... although it is an itam very commonly avail. my summit came with pumice like bricks in the bottom and sides, and it took us a year to start carrying them because of that, but the baffles sold us after that
The light bricks are far superior in performance to the heavy bricks.
OK, I disassembled the insert today and have a sweep coming this Tuesday. Last year when the sweep came I just pulled the baffles, this time I pulled everything.
A link to the baffles online (broken link removed to http://www.stove-parts.net/Baffle_Kit_for_Napoleon_1400_1401_p/w018-0078.htm)
A picture of my current baffles, this insert has about 10 cord through it.
The metal bracket on the right covers the air tube for the secondary burn. The white material inside this bracket has not been identified as it is not on the parts list for this insert that I can find, any help will be appreciated.
A link to the baffles online (broken link removed to http://www.stove-parts.net/Baffle_Kit_for_Napoleon_1400_1401_p/w018-0078.htm)
A picture of my current baffles, this insert has about 10 cord through it.
The metal bracket on the right covers the air tube for the secondary burn. The white material inside this bracket has not been identified as it is not on the parts list for this insert that I can find, any help will be appreciated.
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cmonSTART said:
they had to be split , a single would not fit through the door. as for impact breakage it would take some carelessness on the part of the loader as they are situated above the door opening. we specify that the stove should also only be loaded to the top of the bricks to provide room for secondary combustion this leaves 3 to 4 inches before hitting the tubes and the width of the tubes before getting to the baffles. as for durability , they have held up quite well we really have not had a very high percentage of replacements (though we did have to put a label in the stove on top of the panels as folks occasionally thought they were "packing materials" and ripped them out)"oops"
stoveguy2esw said:
Poker damage was my biggest problem in the 30-NC since my previous stove had a steel baffle that didn't care how many times it was smacked. Pokers do slip when your are moving splits. Fact of life. For the first two seasons those boards drove me nuts. Year three and I stopped trying to pack it full and got the same burn times and didn't ever put another dent in the boards. I will put up with those boards before I would ever put up with soft, over priced, bricks in the firebox like the PE and Quad stoves. But now they are deteriorating fast in year three with no outside help.
Now, about the damned boards not being wide enough to stay in place when a fire is burning. That is an Englander screw up. Period. I had to fix it with a piece of gasket rope with a stainless rod through the middle of it to stop the stove top temp from heading to the moon on start-up due to the combustion gases bypassing the baffle.
Fact is, with board replacement the maintenance costs of this non-cat and a cat stove ain't gonna be a dime's worth of difference.
flewism said:
if the white stuff was in that channel when you took it out, it is probably a mineral wool insulation that will likely come with that metal rail part when you order it
i don't know what the baffles on my Jotul are made of but they are heavy as hell, so i am assuming they are not fiberboard.
Hey People.. Been busy landscaping, splitting wood etc... I know many of you despise my stove but it is very durable with no refractory materials and during it's 20+ yrs it has required 1 combustor at ~$90.00 and one cast iron baffle at $20.00.. This is why I can't part with it.. Plus it's very efficient to boot.. Long as I am burning properly seasoned wood it is very little trouble otherwise it would tend to puff.. If a stove costs alot to keep running it's not worth the trouble and expense of conventional heating but that's just opinion.. If I had a stove that needed repairs often I would stop burning wood as I don't have the time or patience to deal with it.. Reliability is king in my books..
Ray
Ray
Sounds like a great testimonial to me. I rarely despise anything that does its job well year after year. Reliability + clean burning + good heat make for the best stoves.
I'm sure everyone here already knows the answers but I can't help asking anyway...
What's a baffle?
What's a firebrick?
Sorry if this is a bit exasperating for you, but I'm a fast learner!
What's a baffle?
What's a firebrick?
Sorry if this is a bit exasperating for you, but I'm a fast learner!
lorskimac said:
In my case the baffle resides under the cat to prevent flames from directly contacting the cat causing thermal shock and damaging the ceramic substrate.. Firebrick which I do not have lines the firebox to protect the outer surfaces and bottom of the stove from direct flames and are replacable when they deteriorate(sp?) ..I always leave a layer of ash on the bottom to protect the bottom.. My stove uses cast iron plates with an airspace behind them to protect the outer cast iron and to this day are still in good shape..
Ray
lorskimac said:
a baffle is usually in the top of the stove, and it juts out across the firebox so that the flame and smoke do not go directly up the stovepipe from the fire, but have to make kind of an "S" turn around the baffle to exit. this causes the smoke to tumble around and the turbulence (and longer residence time of the smoke in the firebox) helps to burn off the gasses in the woodsmoke for a more efficient burn. Often times these baffles will have an integrated airtube or slot to allow extra combustion air to feed into the exhaust. this added red hot air burns the smoke for a cleaner burn and more heat output per log. sometimes these baffles also cover a catalyst (like in your car's exhaust system) which, when the damper is closed, burns off the smoke at low temps.
firebrick are a beige colored brick (usually 4.24 x 9 x 1.25 inches) that are mostly installed in steel stoves to insulate the firebox wall from heat damage, and also to reflect heat back into the fire for a hotter, more efficient combustion
Think of your stove as a "box within a box". There's the outer "box" which is made of cast iron, soapstone, plate steel, or some combination thereof. Then, the "inside box" which is the interior of your stove, the part lined with fire brick. The top "shelf" of this interior box is the baffle. The combustion gases travel across the baffle where secondary air is often introduced to create a cleaner burn. Different manufacturers use different materials to construct this baffle.
(broken image removed)
(broken image removed)
so if a person was going to buy a stove which is the best to buy . have another post asking help for best stove to get. if they are going to be a constant hassle my dad will just keep his old fisher. he will not want to buy another if things are going to break and constant mantinance.
Yeah, and my cell phone is not nearly as rugged as the old black Bell Telephone dial unit. You could drop those suckers onto a brick floor and they'd never show a trace of damage. Of course they weighed 2-3 pounds (compared to my cell phone's 4-5 ounces) and the digital pictures they took weren't worth a damn...
Rugged isn't everything.
Rugged isn't everything.
the bull said:
This was the reason we went with the Pacific Energy stove. It has a stainless baffle system that encloses the insulation blanket. An alternative would be to get a stove that uses firebrick like the Avalon or Lopi stoves.
mine consists of stainless steel air tubes with a stainless plate with firebrick and a white (ceramic wool) blanket on top.
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