Summer DWH options

[infinitymike]

I'm surprised that with the Garn you wouldn't just use that for summer DHW.
Probably get a way with 1 fire every couple days.


At least that's what I'm assuming and hoping for when I install storage.

 

[MaineGuy]

This unit will heat the water in your indirect water heater only. I just turned my Amtrol down to like 100 degrees and set the aquastat to turn the hphw on before the oil sees a demand. Which I'm guessing it would come on if I were to use enough hot water and the hpwh can't keep up.

 

[infinitymike]

This unit will heat the water in your indirect water heater only. I just turned my Amtrol down to like 100 degrees and set the aquastat to turn the hphw on before the oil sees a demand. Which I'm guessing it would come on if I were to use enough hot water and the hpwh can't keep up.

I like this. Sounds like a good option.
And I won't have to run that loud, inefficient, energy sucking dehumidifier.

 

[MaineGuy]

That's still an option. I'll probably wait and see how much wood I burn through a winter.

 

[MaineGuy]

Yeah if your already running a dehumidifier it will be like free hot water. My garage floor has been pretty dry since I've been running the hpwh. Its great compared to previous springs.

 

[tom in maine]

Yes, it is an excellent backup for non-wood heating times. HPWH is a heat pump water heater. It takes heat from the room air (usually a basement) and makes domestic hot water.

 

[woodsmaster]

Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?

 

[maple1]

Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?

I think you can duct them too, with some DIY ability. I'm still thinking strongly about one - if I do, I will run some ducting so it can send 'conditioned' air either up to a central vent on my first floor living area (in summer or if it's hot out) or just into the basement, and bring in intake air either from the basement, or a warm sunroom area of my first floor (in summer or if it's hot out).

 

[DBNH22]

Yeah if your already running a dehumidifier it will be like free hot water. My garage floor has been pretty dry since I've been running the hpwh. Its great compared to previous springs.

Glad to hear the HPWH is working out well for you. I'm going to be picking one up in the next few weeks. It's almost warm enough so that I can stop heating but I don't want to have to go back to oil for my DHW so I have to get the heat pump in soon.

 

[kopeck]

Mine (Nyletherm) isn't loud, I would say it's about the same as my Tarm but they're different noises. None the less with my basement door closed I don't hear it running.

With a family of 5 you might want to think about more reserve, 40 gallons might not do it. I think the HWHP is up to the task, it will probably run a lot, it just need to be sized properly. Then again it might do it 80% of the time, having your boiler kick on for the other 20% might not be all that bad.

I don't like burning wood in the summer, the HWHP works well for me.

K

 

[DBNH22]

Mine (Nyletherm) isn't loud, I would say it's about the same as my Tarm but they're different noises. None the less with my basement door closed I don't hear it running.

With a family of 5 you might want to think about more reserve, 40 gallons might not do it. I think the HWHP is up to the task, it will probably run a lot, it just need to be sized properly. Then again it might do it 80% of the time, having your boiler kick on for the other 20% might not be all that bad.

I don't like burning wood in the summer, the HWHP works well for me.

K

You think a 40 gallon tank is a little on the small side? I also have a 40 gallon tank and it's been keeping up fine. It's my wife, myself and two toddlers. We try to minimize the hot water by not taking long showers and not using hot water for laundry. I'm hoping that I don't have to step up the tank size when my kids get older and start showering every day. I guess I could offset it by only showering once a week.

 

[maple1]

Another side benefit (I think), is that if you hook it up to an electric DHW heater, you should extend its life since the elements won't be on. Or not near as much, if at all.

 

[chken]

Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?

You'll have to look at the specs, but heat pumps take time to heat HW. I'm not so sure about continuous HW for a family of 5. It may depend upon how large a storage tank you use. Also, heat pumps need air to draw their heat from, so a larger room to draw heat from the better. I doubt a closet would meet its requirement, unless the door was slatted like a laundry door.

 

[woodsmaster]

You'll have to look at the specs, but heat pumps take time to heat HW. I'm not so sure about continuous HW for a family of 5. It may depend upon how large a storage tank you use. Also, heat pumps need air to draw their heat from, so a larger room to draw heat from the better. I doubt a closet would meet its requirement, unless the door was slatted like a laundry door.

The door is slatted, but if the laundry room door was shut the room still wouldn't be big enough. I have a 80 gallon electric WH now

 

[bdud]

I use a Nyle Geyser water heat pump connected to a Caleffi 80 gallon water tank which supplies all the hot water requirements for our 5 adult house when not using the pellet boiler. No one has noticed the water not being hot. The water pressure with the more consistent temps with 2 showers running at the same time, is so much better than our old indirect coil in the oil boiler. A plus is also a cooler, dryer basement and the water condensate I pump out to a little herb garden growing outside.

 

[DBNH22]

So if you're not using a lot of hot water at the sinks, showers, washers etc do you actually get less dehumidification going on in your basement where the heat pump is? Or does the heat pump continuously dehumidify even when there are no calls for hot water?

 

[moey]

So if you're not using a lot of hot water at the sinks, showers, washers etc do you actually get less dehumidification going on in your basement where the heat pump is? Or does the heat pump continuously dehumidify even when there are no calls for hot water?

You would get less dehumidification it would not run. The dehumidification is side effect positive in most cases.

 

[DBNH22]

You would get less dehumidification it would not run. The dehumidification is side effect positive in most cases.

In practical terms though would the average home with a family of four receive adequate humidification through normal use of the heat pump for DHW? I don't have excessive moisture issues in the basement in general but I'd like to know that after bouts of excessively muggy/rainy weather the heat pump will do a good job of dehimidfying the basement.

 

[bdud]

As moey said, the heat pump would only run if the sensor told it to, this could be from normal heat loss from the tank and pipes.
Nyle sell 2 models, one that uses the electric element sensor that is maybe already in your water tank or a model which has a separate heat sensor that you mount at the bottom the tank, this is the model I have. The hp, maybe because it has the feed & return + sensor at the bottom, seems to heat the tank more thoroughly than the indirect coil and sensor mounted half way up the tank. In my case for our house of 5 adults it heats all our hot water in the warmer months.
Our basement before the heat pump, would be a bit musty, before I ran an a/c supply duct which has its own fan, we would run a dehumidifier but it made the basement warm and noisy. After I put in the a/c supply it still would smell damp and it could still get warm.
With the Nyle the furnace room is sometimes pretty cold, the door to the rest of the basement is closed but those rooms are now also cooler and no more damp smell in the basement.
To answer if the hp would work for you, if your tank is of a reasonable size - you should not get water temp swings, you could expect to save money rather using an oil burner, nobody can hear the hp running if they are in a different room in the basement or in the room above, it cured my damp basement, it cooled my basement, it could work for you, it certainly would reduce and hopefully elimate the time the dehumidifier runs if you use one at the moment.
Pump the water out collected by the hp rather than using a bucket. I use an a/c condensate pump, which goes via a little clear filter (to stop the bugs crawling in) to a couple of micro sprinklers in a garden bed. Hope to grow tomato's in there this year..
It is quite funny to watch it when the water gets pumped out..

 

[DBNH22]

As moey said, the heat pump would only run if the sensor told it to, this could be from normal heat loss from the tank and pipes.
Nyle sell 2 models, one that uses the electric element sensor that is maybe already in your water tank or a model which has a separate heat sensor that you mount at the bottom the tank, this is the model I have. The hp, maybe because it has the feed & return + sensor at the bottom, seems to heat the tank more thoroughly than the indirect coil and sensor mounted half way up the tank. In my case for our house of 5 adults it heats all our hot water in the warmer months.
Our basement before the heat pump, would be a bit musty, before I ran an a/c supply duct which has its own fan, we would run a dehumidifier but it made the basement warm and noisy. After I put in the a/c supply it still would smell damp and it could still get warm.
With the Nyle the furnace room is sometimes pretty cold, the door to the rest of the basement is closed but those rooms are now also cooler and no more damp smell in the basement.
To answer if the hp would work for you, if your tank is of a reasonable size - you should not get water temp swings, you could expect to save money rather using an oil burner, nobody can hear the hp running if they are in a different room in the basement or in the room above, it cured my damp basement, it cooled my basement, it could work for you, it certainly would reduce and hopefully elimate the time the dehumidifier runs if you use one at the moment.
Pump the water out collected by the hp rather than using a bucket. I use an a/c condensate pump, which goes via a little clear filter (to stop the bugs crawling in) to a couple of micro sprinklers in a garden bed. Hope to grow tomato's in there this year..
It is quite funny to watch it when the water gets pumped out..

I have a 40 gallon Superstor that I will be using with the Nyletherm. I ordered the Nyletherm earlier today and hope to have it installed in the next two to three weeks. Tom from Maine mentioned that the unit needs to have a standard aquastat installed so that it does not run continuously. Right now it's just my wife and I and two little toddlers.

The plumber I will have install the Nyletherm is much better than the plumber I had install the Superstor. When the Superstor was installed we did not have any kids and the plumber never thought to mention "hey if you plan on having kids some day you might want to think about a tank that's a little bigger than the 40 gallon model."

The 40 gallon tank has always been able to provide enough hot water for our needs but I think there may come a day when the kids start showering every day that it may fail to do so. Rather than getting a new and larger tank I think I may try much less cost effective solutions to mitigate this such as some low flow shower heads and mixing valves.

 

[kopeck]

We have a 30 gallon tank and are in the same situation (two toddlers). You have to work really hard to exhaust the tank. The bigger issue with the small tank IMHO is that it fluctuates so much that it's always calling for heat, but not of a very long time which isn't efficient. This is really obvious in the summer.

The 30 works OK with my setup now, still not the most efficient setup but it gets the job done.

K

 

[DBNH22]

We have a 30 gallon tank and are in the same situation (two toddlers). You have to work really hard to exhaust the tank. The bigger issue with the small tank IMHO is that it fluctuates so much that it's always calling for heat, but not of a very long time which isn't efficient. This is really obvious in the summer.

The 30 works OK with my setup now, still not the most efficient setup but it gets the job done.

K

What kind of tank do you have that it's temp is always fluctuating? I have one of the stainless Superstor and supposedly they are insulated.


What is causing the temp swings in your tank? Have you ever considered one of those tank blankets/wraps?

 

[kopeck]

It's not the stand by heat loss I'm talking about, it's the fact that it doesn't take a lot of load to run it down so the boiler (or in my case storage) kicks on pretty quickly. The revers is true a well, it doesn't take a long time to top is back off so in the oil boiler's case you get a lot of short cycling, which isn't a good thing.

K

 

[bdud]

As you said Dana B, your tank might be ok for now but the recovery time to heat water from a hp is not quick, so you can get into situations where the water is cooler than you want. I am not sure how you plumb the Nyletherm into the water tank, hopefully it will use the same arrangement as the Nyle Geyser hp's, which seem to heat the tank from the bottom. The Nyle Geyser came with a Johnson Control A419 which works nice, I have a couple fitted to my storage and hot water tank for the boiler control. You can set the temp easily, the temp difference, also with some dip switches additional options. My storage tank tank came with some mechanical control that was a pain, so I quickly scrapped that one.

 

[DBNH22]

As you said Dana B, your tank might be ok for now but the recovery time to heat water from a hp is not quick, so you can get into situations where the water is cooler than you want. I am not sure how you plumb the Nyletherm into the water tank, hopefully it will use the same arrangement as the Nyle Geyser hp's, which seem to heat the tank from the bottom. The Nyle Geyser came with a Johnson Control A419 which works nice, I have a couple fitted to my storage and hot water tank for the boiler control. You can set the temp easily, the temp difference, also with some dip switches additional options. My storage tank tank came with some mechanical control that was a pain, so I quickly scrapped that one.

Did you buy your Nyle through Tom in Maine? That's where I got mine and if I recall correctly he told me that the Nyletherm and the newer version, the Geyser are basically the same unit but the Nyletherm is 240V. I think Tom posted earlier on this thread so he could probably give a better explanation of the two units.

I'm not a plumber/heating guy but my understanding of mixing valves is that they allow you to run the tank hotter and then mix in your hotter hot water with some cold water to give you the desired temp at the faucet while saving water in the tank. I was hoping that I might be able to utilize a mixing valve to extend the recovery time on the tank. Does this hold true to those of you that know better than I?