When building small fires in a bigger stove like you guys say are you just not getting the full potential of the stove or is it a matter of having to load the stove more often and getting shorter burn times? My big worry is trying to maintain correct stack temps?
Such a thing as too big of a stove?
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Doc C
Minister of Fire
Stack Temps are much lower in the EPA stoves. I have a hard time getting tk the recommended Temps. Now I judge how I'm burning based on how clean the glass is and how much smoke I have.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I’ll let others answer from a non-cat perspective. When talking about a catalytic stove on low burn, the firebox becomes just a cold fuel tank, almost all of the “burning” is being done in the catalytic combustor. You can turn down the inlet air to where the firebox becomes a dark, smoky, smoldering box of wood, just feeding volatile off-gassing to the catalytic combustor. Meanwhile that little combustor is ripping along at 500 - 1500 degF, burning off those volatiles and ensuring your chimney stays sparkly clean.
... or you can turn it up and have a ripping fire, like any non-cat stove. In that case, the entire mass of the stove heats up, and they can throw almost as much heat as any similar size non-cat. The beauty is being able to run either way, or any point between.
I run two cat stoves. One is almost always in this low smoldering mode, as it’s in a smaller, well-insulated space. I load it once every 24 hours, most of the winter, and it just keeps chugging. The other is in the older and larger part of the house, and I will frequently rip thru a quick load at full throttle in the evenings on that one, before turning it down to do a medium burn (equivalent to a non-cat stove’s lowest burn rate) for a 8-10 hour overnight burn.
Both of my chimneys stay clean. I have them cleaned each year, mostly to get eyes on them for inspection, there’s never much in them when they run the brush. Cat stoves are known to gum up the firebox of the stove (and the window) on long slow burns, but this burns right off with the next ripping fire, the chimney stays clean either way.
I run our stove by the weather. We are entering a milder spell and so I switch to smaller loads of about 6 splits. The flue still drafts well, no smoke and flue temps stays above 400F during the fire stage. Yes, burn times are shorter with this smaller fuel load. They are typically 6 hrs. as compared to 10-12 hrs with a full load, but all family members can run the stove so this is not a big deal for us. Our flue is straight up through the house which helps keep flue gases warm. For the past 3 yrs. I get .5 to 1 cup of soot and sote when doing the annual cleaning.
Our climate zone has very long shoulder seasons, so a lot of burning is like this. Once it gets above about 47F we run the heat pump instead. It's more cost effective, efficient and clean.
Our climate zone has very long shoulder seasons, so a lot of burning is like this. Once it gets above about 47F we run the heat pump instead. It's more cost effective, efficient and clean.
The moral of this story is well insulated home you don't need too big of a stove.Drafty or uninsulated home go big stove.
It's clear from his initial posts that he's looking at budget stoves. That takes most if not all cat stoves off the table. I saw some new Dutchwest cats at a local shop a few years back, they weren't real pricey...but they aren't high-end stoves, and I don't think they even make 'em any more.
I don't think he's going to have a lot of shoulder season low burning to deal with anyway..he lives just down the road from International Falls, MN. They have about two months of "summer" up there, then it's back into the deep freeze.
Yep, if he plans to do more air-sealing and insulation, he might get by with a somewhat smaller stove in the long run. In any case, where he lives, he's still gonna need a pretty big stove the vast majority of the time..that's what you have to plan for. And the woods that are common are probably faster-burning species so he'll want a bigger box for that as well. He might be able to get some Sugar (hard) Maple though, I don't know.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Good point. The ideal solution is affected by your central heating system. Mine is hot water baseboard via oil-fired boiler, which is nice and comfortable in all weather, but equally inefficient in all weather. Those with a heat pump have good reason to switch over at some temperature, whether it be 47F or some other number.
Cat stove is out of the question, if money was no issue yes id love one but for my application i wont see the payoff before i sell the house. And yes i started the wood stove about end of october and it will run probaly till about may. Most wood i burn will be softwoods(poplar, pine, spruce and id be lucky to get my hands on some birch). Some air sealing will be done a couple new doors, gonna add about a foot of insulation to the attic. Biggest problem is all i have is 2x4 walls so not much r value there and my crawl space keeps our floors quite chilly. As long as running a big stove with smaller loads isnt gonna hurt the stove or build up creosote to fast seems like thats the way to go. I dont mind if i can only get 3-4 hr burns its alot better than what i have been getting
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Cool. In that case, you’d do well to not go too insane on stove size. A somewhat too-large non-cat can be managed by building small but hot fires in it. A non-cat requires 1100F to support secondary burn without aid of a catalyst, so smoldering out a long slow one is not the way to roll, there. A somewhat oversized stove (within reason) can be managed with partial loads run hot enough to maintain secondary combustion. Essentially, quick hot fires, that pump some energy into the house. A well-sealed house is desired here, so as to reduce the bumps in this rollercoaster ride.
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That said, a lot of people end up wanting to burn longer and supplement more of their heat needs, once they see the longer burn times of the new EPA stoves. In that case you might also want to load it up before you go to work...that's where a bigger box would be useful.
As long as you get the secondary burn of the stove working, you shouldn't have to worry about a lot of creo in the chimney. Keep an eye on your chimney at first, until you know what to expect for creo buildup. Actually, it might be easier to burn the smaller stove cleaner, without roasting yourself out as badly. Sounds like you aren't concerned with long burns anyway, and will just burn the stove when you are there. Yes, you will have to load the smaller one a little more often, but you won't have as high of spikes in the heat curve, and the house will be more of a constant temp.
That said, a lot of people end up wanting to burn longer and supplement more of their heat needs, once they see the longer burn times of the new EPA stoves. In that case you might also want to load it up before you go to work...that's where a bigger box would be useful.
Would the century fw3000 be considered on the large end of wood stoves? Or kinda medium? It does say 800-2000 sq ft
Doc C
Minister of Fire
I would encourage you to get away from square foot ratings of stoves. There is not really a universal rating method between the companies.
The FW3000 is a 2.4 CF box. I would say it's a medium sized stove.
If your house was insulated well I would suggest a 1.8 CF box if you don't need long burns.
Since it's not insulated well then I would probably be looking around 2.5cf box.
In your situation I think you will have to compromise on something if you are going with a stove with burn tubes. If you go small like 1.8cf then you lose burn times but might be able to heat your house just fine. If you go large like over 3 cf then I think you will have give up being able to run the stove the way it was designed because it will be to hot.
The medium sized stoves might be a good compromise.
Yeah to bad you couldnt test burn a stove like you test drive a car haha im really on the fence with this one. The cost savings between the 13nc and the fw3000 isnt much but the hearth that the 13nc reguires is, does anyone knoe what a 4x8 sheet of micore 300 runs?
Doc C
Minister of Fire
I used 5 layers of Durock and including framing, tile, thinset, grout, screws, passive air vent, and misc stuff I was in it less then $200.
Not sure about micore as it's not available where I am
Doc C
Minister of Fire
Why? How thick is your subfloor and what is the size and spacing of your floor joists?
Don't worry. It's not an issue, especially if you use Durock NexGen which is about all one can find these days. It's much lighter than regular cement board.
Doc C
Minister of Fire
That's what I was thinking. Trying to figure out how a house could be built to weak to hold about 300 pounds of Durock
Its 2x8 or 2x10 joists with 2 layers of 3/4 plywood for subfloor, i guess it wouldnt matter much im trying to keep the total weight under my old stove which is like 430lb
blacktail
Minister of Fire
I have a 1.6cf insert that handles ~90% of my heating and my house is only slightly bigger than yours at just over 1100sf. But I have good insulation, new windows and doors, and most importantly, I'm in a mild climate. I think my PUD bill said our average low temp for last month was 33. 1.6cf wouldn't come close to cutting it if I was in MN.
When a manufacturer says their stove will heat up to 2000sf they mean under easy conditions with good insulation. They don't mean it'll heat 2000sf of drafty house where it's 20 below zero outside.
When a manufacturer says their stove will heat up to 2000sf they mean under easy conditions with good insulation. They don't mean it'll heat 2000sf of drafty house where it's 20 below zero outside.
KindredSpiritzz
Minister of Fire
Doc C
Minister of Fire
No reason to worry about weight in this situation. Your house is plenty strong enough for this application
Agreed a 2x8 or 2x10 will hold a lot of weight, ALOT! you will be fine.
For what it’s worth I live just south of you in Rochester, MN and burn mid sept to mid may with a BK cat stove.
Is it possible you could invest more in a stove and then take it with you when you sell the house? Just abandon the chimney?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
For what it’s worth I live just south of you in Rochester, MN and burn mid sept to mid may with a BK cat stove.
Is it possible you could invest more in a stove and then take it with you when you sell the house? Just abandon the chimney?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Ashful
Minister of Fire
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