Student loan forgiveness

[stoveliker]

I can confirm that.
It was easy to make the budget work there. I have it good here, but if I'd make the same here as there,. it'd be hard.

 

[PaulOinMA]

I agree. On porch having cigar after a few beers. Shouldn't post.

Skunk in yard somewhere. Skunk probably thinking stinky person in yard somewhere.

 

[Ashful]

Analysis | The most-regretted (and lowest-paying) college majors — The Washington Post

Humanities disciplines are among the most regretted majors and are declining in popularity. Meanwhile, STEM fields have doubled enrollment in the last decade.

apple.news

 

[tlc1976]

Actually, they get a lot for the high taxes. By not spending the majority of these funds on the military they get some excellent benefits. There's a reason why Denmark is always among the top spots of the world’s happiest places. In addition to great education benefits, they also get at least 5 weeks paid leave a year, they have universal health care, a generous retirement pension, elderly home care, and 52 weeks paid leave for a new child split between both parents.

Why Danes Appreciate the High Danish Income Tax Rate | IRIS FMP

Denmark has one of the highest income tax rates in the world, and yet is home to some of the happiest people. Find out why it’s the tax that they appreciate.

fmpglobal.com

When compared to the combined state, FICA, and federal income tax of say MA being about 20%, then add at least 15% more for retirement planning, they get more for their money for life.

Then the sales tax when you use whatever money you have left.

 

[stoveliker]

And yet, folks there live better with a lower spendable budget that that same budget here allows. I did.

 

[Ashful]

And yet, folks there live better with a lower spendable budget that that same budget here allows. I did.

I've lived and worked in several countries in Europe, most notably Germany, Italy, Ireland, England, in addition to visiting Belgium, France, Czech Republic.

While what you say is (mostly) true, I would not trade what I'm able to achieve here, for any one of them. Yes, those at the bottom may have it better in Germany, than here. But everyone not at the bottom of the socioeconomic pile have it considerably worse. I have no interest in finding my way to the bottom of the pile.

 

[stoveliker]

I'd say anybody below at least the middle of the economic pile has it better there. That's more than half the population (because wealth is also not equally distributed there).

I live here now, and I have it better too - but I'm well above that middle of the scale, consistent with your observations.

 

[EbS-P]

The first thing I saw is Finland's tax rate of 56.95%. Good luck with that.

Denmark 55.90%.

Would gladly pay it for the quality of life improvements. We have decent health insurance. One child with manageable epilepsy and has a baby this year. We are up to 8k in medical out of pocket expenses. (And I even delivered the baby my self on the bedroom floor! By by choice!)

No Americans will never go for it but I argue it’s not the citizens preventing it but the corporate greed that has a constitutional right to spend what ever they want to help candidates who will do their bidding. I know nothing of the campaign finance rules in those countries but I’m guess they are different than ours.

Look more than half of Americans don’t go to college. This was never fair. Biden got lucky on this one. There is a legitimate argument against it. But other things have happened since it was announced and now it’s old news.

On different but related note I want to thank everyone who has participated in this discussion. I wa sure it was going to get shut down before it got to end of the second page. We don’t have to always agree but it’s nice to see everyone following the rules.

 

[EbS-P]

I've lived and worked in several countries in Europe, most notably Germany, Italy, Ireland, England, in addition to visiting Belgium, France, Czech Republic.

While what you say is (mostly) true, I would not trade what I'm able to achieve here, for any one of them. Yes, those at the bottom may have it better in Germany, than here. But everyone not at the bottom of the socioeconomic pile have it considerably worse. I have no interest in finding my way to the bottom of the pile.

My interpretation is the progressive tax system makes the pile much shorter. Making relative movement with said pile easier/more attainable.

I think that directly relates to the need to borrow money to get an education to climb the ladder. But the pile is just too deep (read that as generalized limited upward financial mobility)

I do think rural areas have certain cost of living advantages but and it’s a big one. The upward mobility is more limited and couple that with shrinking population the economy will shrink too this making any positive movements even more difficult.

Those with means are geographically mobile. So I think you will see rural areas increasingly reliant on programs like, or similar to, debt forgiveness for their success in the future. They need teachers. They need health care. And if they can’t pay a wage that allows a person to live and pay off student debt, those communities can and and probably will find themselves in a downward spiral.

 

[begreen]

Seen on Twitter:
If you have a problem with the student loan cancellation because you already paid off your loans, just pretend it's a tax cut for the rich that you also never got, but mysteriously never complained about.

 

[ABMax24]

For a comparison of how other first-world nations view this issue:

• In Germany, college is free, even if you are an American visiting.
• In Finland, anyone is welcome to get an education for free.
• In Denmark, college is free of course, but the student also gets $900/mo. for expenses for up to 6 yrs.
• In France, it's 170 Euros a year for bachelor's programs.

The point is, that education is important for the well-being of the nation and the world. They make it easy for those that seek higher education.

Meanwhile, back home you've got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps. We charge an arm and a leg for education and it keeps on getting worse. It's $35.5K a year is average for college these days. However, we'll provide you with a loan at 10x the rate that the bank pays. If you don't pay we'll garnish your paycheck. If you declare bankruptcy (quite expensive), you still owe the man.

So while I agree, that the student loan payoff is not the best solution because it's temporary. It's a bandaid covering a festering wound. Education should not be a high-profit institution and that needs to be addressed. Add the fact that wages have been relatively stagnant for a long time.
This is the problem:

The Price of College in America Is Increasing 8x faster Than Wages – The Finance Twins

The cost of college is increasing approx. 8x faster than wages. This begs the question: is college even worth it anymore?

thefinancetwins.com

(And yes, I put myself through college with the help of a BEOG and a part-time job. However, my tuition was something like $650/semester.)

US tuition is out of hand. Out of curiosity I checked what University costs are here, an engineering degree is 4 years at about $11k/year (that's all university costs combined), which is a lot higher than the $7,500/year I was paying 10 years ago.

I don't agree with free education though, even with our tuition rates I knew a lot of students attending post-secondary education for lack of any better plan for their lives, but with no real intended direction. Many of which dropped out within 2 years without earning any credentials because the costs grew too large. These students occupied seats that could have been filled by other students with a plan to a degree.

Having a fee to the student helps keep "career students" out of the classroom and frees up spots for students with a plan to a degree and the intent to later join the workforce with that degree.

 

[Ashful]

Out of curiosity I checked what University costs are here, an engineering degree is 4 years at about $11k/year (that's all university costs combined), which is a lot higher than the $7,500/year I was paying 10 years ago.

Great post, I agree with everything you said.

This graph has been floating around Forbes, seemingly originally posted on WealthTrace, but without any citation or qualification (eg., I don't know if it's national average, if it's only private schools, etc.), but seems to reflect what everyone here has been feeling:

 

[EbS-P]

Great post, I agree with everything you said.

This graph has been floating around Forbes, seemingly originally posted on WealthTrace, but without any citation or qualification (eg., I don't know if it's national average, if it's only private schools, etc.), but seems to reflect what everyone here has been feeling:

View attachment 298676

Comparing what ever “college education inflation” is to consumer prices I don’t see as a valid comparison. As we have found out consumer price index is weighted heavily to the price of oil. Food is next. And this graph stops in 2010.

A more meaningful comparison might be the msrp of a vehicle say the the F-150. My googling says a 1985 f150 listed for $7800. For 2010 it was $22000. A 280% increase.

Dot com bubble burst and wee see the two lines diverge. I’m guessing we would see the same thing happen if it graph kept going and probably even steeper increases in college cost due the Great Recession.

I’m not agreeing that costs have not increased the absolutely have, but for a real meaningful discussion we need to understand why that graph turned.