Stove Installed - Clearance Wrong and Question

[bholler]

Not that its the easiest way by any means, but couldn't a rip-down of the Sheetrock and an install of 1/2" cement board fix all this?
..again, i know its not the easiest

No what would that accomplish?

 

[Jotel me this]

If single wall falls within the listed clearances then that is all you are going to get out of a court case. That will be their defense that it wasnt improperly installed, merely the wrong connector was demanded by you.
Just have them put the best quality single wall connector on and a heat shield for it. Those pipe shields are barely noticeable. You could ask for the pipe cost difference to be refunded to you as well. You will get more heat output out of the single wall anyway. I dont know why people get stuck on double wall when it isnt necessary. Overkill.

of course, if he does use single wall it has to be black iron or stainless steel with a minimum thickness of 24 gauge.

i wouldnt do it.

 

[Jotel me this]

No what would that accomplish?

once complete, it would give the look of a regular wall, without having to change the location of the stove, and the cement board would resist the heat, no?

 

[AlbergSteve]

once complete, it would give the look of a regular wall, without having to change the location of the stove, and the cement board would resist the heat, no?

But he would still be too close to combustibles, the wood studs behind the cement board.

 

[Ludlow]

But he would still be too close to combustibles, the wood studs behind the cement board.

Can we agree that they could technically use single wall as it sits? What is the current measurement from the back of the stove to the wall right now?

 

[Ludlow]

 

[Ludlow]

Side (A) - 15" - we have 15.5"
Rear (B) - 11" - we have 14"

My head is spinning wondering why this is even a problem at all. OP is a couple inches past minimums without heat shields of any kind.

 

[deborita3]

I am new here. Where do I find the different forums to post in? I have a quadra fire 300i wood insert I have some questions about. Thanks.

 

[bholler]

I am new here. Where do I find the different forums to post in? I have a quadra fire 300i wood insert I have some questions about. Thanks.

You found it start a new thread of your own to ask questions

 

[bholler]

My head is spinning wondering why this is even a problem at all. OP is a couple inches past minimums without heat shields of any kind.

You know i just read back through it and looked at the manual unless i am missing something i am pretty sure you are right. Thats what i get for not reading from the start

 

[Sodbuster]

You know i just read back through it and looked at the manual unless i am missing something i am pretty sure you are right. Thats what i get for not reading from the start

Here's another avenue to take if the dealer is unwilling to budge, or communicate. How did you pay for your stove and installation, credit card? If you did you can contest the charge and the credit card company will act on your behalf. I've done it twice in my many years, and it's worked great both times. Amazing how fast they call when you tie up their funds.

 

[Ludlow]

You know i just read back through it and looked at the manual unless i am missing something i am pretty sure you are right. Thats what i get for not reading from the start

I am framing this one.

 

[AlbergSteve]

My head is spinning wondering why this is even a problem at all. OP is a couple inches past minimums without heat shields of any kind.

I've re-read this post a couple of times including the F100 manual. If NFPA says you need 18'' to single wall connector, how can Jotul spec 11'' to the back of the stove using single wall? That would make the pipe clearance about 12''. Why would side clearance increase with double wall? Seems counter-intuitive. My money's on a typo in the manual.

 

[Ludlow]

Here's another avenue to take if the dealer is unwilling to budge, or communicate. How did you pay for your stove and installation, credit card? If you did you can contest the charge and the credit card company will act on your behalf. I've done it twice in my many years, and it's worked great both times. Amazing how fast they call when you tie up their funds.

I did it twice as well.

I've re-read this post a couple of times including the F100 manual. If NFPA says you need 18'' to single wall connector, how can Jotul spec 11'' to the back of the stove using single wall? That would make the pipe clearance about 12''. Why would side clearance increase with double wall? Seems counter-intuitive. My money's on a typo in the manual.

This is a pet project of mine it seems. The 18" clearance is just a default for untested stoves. If the stove is tested and approved by UL for less than 18" then that is the minimum clearance for that stove. Still, I would like to go as far beyond as possible. The OP is three inches past the minimum for unshielded single wall as it sits. The stove side minimum for DW is higher because of the increased draft potential of DW and the stove side can range higher temp in that case. They must have paid for one Hell of a detailed test!

If you notice, the horizontal connector minimum is indeed 18".

 

[AlbergSteve]

I did it twice as well.


This is a pet project of mine it seems. The 18" clearance is just a default for untested stoves. If the stove is tested and approved by UL for less than 18" then that is the minimum clearance for that stove. Still, I would like to go as far beyond as possible. The OP is three inches past the minimum for unshielded single wall as it sits. The stove side minimum for DW is higher because of the increased draft potential of DW and the stove side can range higher temp in that case. They must have paid for one Hell of a detailed test!

If you notice, the horizontal connector minimum is indeed 18".

Yep, saw the horizontal number. If draft increased with dw pipe, wouldn't that be true for any stove?


Hmm... not in the three random stove manuals I looked up, 18'' was the minimum, period, with sw pipe. Even Selkirks pipe manual says 18'' for single wall.

As an example, here's an excerpt from and Osburn 2000 wood stove:

It states that clearances must be met individually.


There is similar wording for my BK Ashford, minimum 18'' to sw pipe.

I don't know how they can say it's tested for sw pipe at 11'' without saying there must be a shield behind the pipe.

 

[AlbergSteve]

I'd like everyone to take five minutes and check their own stove manual and see what it says, I'll wait...

 

[bholler]

I'd like everyone to take five minutes and check their own stove manual and see what it says, I'll wait...

I know of 5 or 6 stove manuals that spec below 18" for single wall pipe. You are correct you need to follow all clearances for ul listed products. The problem is i dont know of any ul listed single wall connector pipe. That means that a stove manufacturer can override that generic untested clearance of 18" if they prove it safe in testing.

 

[bholler]

I am framing this one.

Not so fast the op has doublewall pipe which for some crazy reason increases the side clearance to 17" not with in spec. I dont understand any reason that would be correct but it is what the manual says

 

[sesro1978]

Not so fast the op has doublewall pipe which for some crazy reason increases the side clearance to 17" not with in spec. I dont understand any reason that would be correct but it is what the manual says

It seems completely non-sensical, but after calling Jotul (yes, I actually spoke to one of their techs...apparently I should count myself lucky) they indicate that since the double-wall drafts better the stove has the potential to output more heat, so they require 17" for double wall. It's not a typo according to them.

 

[Ashful]

My head is spinning wondering why this is even a problem at all. OP is a couple inches past minimums without heat shields of any kind.

The issue, as I understood it, is that the retailer / installer had done a very good job of convincing the OP that double wall was the way to go. He probably described how it drafts better, stays cleaner, and does your dishes, too. Now the OP is remembering all those advantages that were described to him when the retailer sold him that pipe, some real and some less significant, and is apprehensive to switch to single wall.

Also, wouldn’t the single wall require a shield on the pipe to sit 11 inches from the wall? The stove may be tested for that clearance, but doesn’t single wall always require more, no matter the stove to which it is connected?

 

[bholler]

The issue, as I understood it, is that the retailer / installer had done a very good job of convincing the OP that double wall was the way to go. He probably described how it drafts better, stays cleaner, and does your dishes, too. Now the OP is remembering all those advantages that were described to him when the retailer sold him that pipe, some real and some less significant, and is apprehensive to switch to single wall.

Also, wouldn’t the single wall require a shield on the pipe to sit 11 inches from the wall? The stove may be tested for that clearance, but doesn’t single wall always require more, no matter the stove to which it is connected?

No if it is sheilded it goes to double wall clearances. And a stove manufacturer can specify less than the default 18" for singlewall as long as they test it and it passes. They can do this because singlewall pipe is not ul listed and that 18" is just a default clearance the same as 36" is default for an unlisted stove.

 

[Ludlow]

The issue, as I understood it, is that the retailer / installer had done a very good job of convincing the OP that double wall was the way to go. He probably described how it drafts better, stays cleaner, and does your dishes, too. Now the OP is remembering all those advantages that were described to him when the retailer sold him that pipe, some real and some less significant, and is apprehensive to switch to single wall.

When you get something in your head it can be hard to let go. Bet the salesman is regretting the upsell on this one.

 

[maple1]

It seems completely non-sensical, but after calling Jotul (yes, I actually spoke to one of their techs...apparently I should count myself lucky) they indicate that since the double-wall drafts better the stove has the potential to output more heat, so they require 17" for double wall. It's not a typo according to them.

That makes a little bit of sense, but still seems a bit wonky to me, given all the other factors that can affect draft too. E.g., do they take height of chimney into account also? Trees nearby? Other site specific things that could make the stove draft better and output more heat?

 

[Ludlow]

That makes a little bit of sense, but still seems a bit wonky to me, given all the other factors that can affect draft too. E.g., do they take height of chimney into account also? Trees nearby? Other site specific things that could make the stove draft better and output more heat?

I would think that they would run the stove into an overfire to test peak heat radiance. You'd think anyway.

 

[Ludlow]

I'd like everyone to take five minutes and check their own stove manual and see what it says, I'll wait...

Are you still waiting? My stove says I can have single wall in a vertical configuration within 12" of combustibles.