Stove Installed - Clearance Wrong and Question

[bholler]

If a single wall pipe gets you into the clearances needed, I would go with that and be done. Yes they should have done it right and informed you of this. But a single wall pipe is such a simple solution a court is not going to give you much more then the cost of a single wall pipe and chances of getting them to pay your legal fees is a second battle. I do not understand how a single wall pipe allows the stove body to be closer to the wall, but if the manufacturer says so my bet is the court would recommend that as the solution. A court will look for a compromise on both sides, chances of them giving you exactly what you want is slim. Most stoves run with a single wall stove pipe unless you need to reduce the clearance of the actual pipe to a combustible. When installing mine I was going to do double wall seemed safer, but the draft guy at woodland direct explained why that was not needed and I would get better room heating with a single wall. He was DOWN selling me.

So a "draft" guy from woodland advised you that it is better to give up heat from the pipe???

 

[sesro1978]

Hey all-

Thanks for the suggestions and input here. This really helps to clarify my thinking and response. I've decided to construct a heat shield myself and ask that the company chip in towards the cost of materials. I'm not asking that they cover my time or childcare costs (have a 3-year old who always wants to 'help').

I did send a very pointed, clear message back to both the sales person and the owner of the company indicating that the margin really didn't have anything to do with this discussion. I also asked why single-wall was a better option now as I had originally discussed this with the sales person and he very clearly stated "you're so much better off with double-wall". Seems like back-peddling to me.

I'm not holding my breath, but I do really feel this has gone on too long with too much back and forth...and come to think of it, I still haven't had an apology from anyone - again, not holding my breath - but to someone who has worked in customer support for year's, this seems like a poor practice.

 

[Ashful]

I didnt say get a lawyer. I said have a lawyer send a letter. In my experience that doesnt cost much and can get results. As i said before to me it wouldnt be about the money.

Bholler, we are so opposite, that I’m surprised I like you as much as I do. Life is too short, this ship has sailed, the OP needn’t get an ulcer or lose sleep over this. Cut your losses, walk away, find another solution.

The last thing I’d want at this point is that contractor coming back into my house, and rigging up whatever cheap solution he needs to minimally satisfy this requirement. The relationship has already gone sour, and a letter from a lawyer is not going to pour sugar into that cocktail.

Of course, while we’re all sitting here debating what could be done, the OP has not provided the single most important detail: WHAT TECHNICAL SOLUTION WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO HIM (or his wife)? Unless my memory is failing me (I’m not going to go back and re-read all 75 posts on this thread), he has ruled out each of the possible solutions that has been presented. WHAT does he want to do to solve this problem? Move the stove? SIngle wall pipe? Wall shield? I think each idea was nixed.

 

[Ludlow]

I didnt say get a lawyer. I said have a lawyer send a letter. In my experience that doesnt cost much and can get results. As i said before to me it wouldnt be about the money.

It it scary when you see an unsafe install from PROFESSIONALS. I remember reading about a housing development where the furnaces in attics were installed too close to combustibles. It took quite a few years for pyrolysis to occur and I believe three houses burned down before they remedied the situation. It ended up being a joint settlement between both the builder and the manufacturer of the furnaces. Both screwed up a little and it added up to disaster.

 

[sesro1978]

Bholler, we are so opposite, that I’m surprised I like you as much as I do. Life is too short, this ship has sailed, the OP needn’t get an ulcer or lose sleep over this. Cut your losses, walk away, find another solution.

The last thing I’d want at this point is that contractor coming back into my house, and rigging up whatever cheap solution he needs to minimally satisfy this requirement. The relationship has already gone sour, and a letter from a lawyer is not going to pour sugar into that cocktail.

Of course, while we’re all sitting here debating what could be done, the OP has not provided the single most important detail: WHAT TECHNICAL SOLUTION WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO HIM (or his wife)? Unless my memory is failing me (I’m not going to go back and re-read all 75 posts on this thread), he has ruled out each of the possible solutions that has been presented. WHAT does he want to do to solve this problem? Move the stove? SIngle wall pipe? Wall shield? I think each idea was nixed.

I agree - I really don't want them back in my house. The acceptable solution is that we (I) will construct a wall shield that provides the needed safety and is acceptable in appearance to us. If you recall, we didn't want a wall shield to begin, which was exactly why we chose this stove over another. If this is something that we now need, we want to like it since we'll need to look at it for the next 30-years.

Yes we nixed:
1) move the stove: looks stupid when moved over as proposed
2) black wall shield: ugly (in our view) - again, chose this stove over another model because it wouldn't need shielding where it was installed - or so we thought
3) single-wall: would meet the 15" clearance to the side, but not the 18" needed from the pipe to the back wall. Yes, I know there are pipe shields but don't want one

 

[bholler]

Bholler, we are so opposite, that I’m surprised I like you as much as I do. Life is too short, this ship has sailed, the OP needn’t get an ulcer or lose sleep over this. Cut your losses, walk away, find another solution.

The last thing I’d want at this point is that contractor coming back into my house, and rigging up whatever cheap solution he needs to minimally satisfy this requirement. The relationship has already gone sour, and a letter from a lawyer is not going to pour sugar into that cocktail.

Of course, while we’re all sitting here debating what could be done, the OP has not provided the single most important detail: WHAT TECHNICAL SOLUTION WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO HIM (or his wife)? Unless my memory is failing me (I’m not going to go back and re-read all 75 posts on this thread), he has ruled out each of the possible solutions that has been presented. WHAT does he want to do to solve this problem? Move the stove? SIngle wall pipe? Wall shield? I think each idea was nixed.

See to me letting them get away with endangering my family would make me loose much more sleep than harrasing them about it would.

 

[Ludlow]

I agree - I really don't want them back in my house. The acceptable solution is that we (I) will construct a wall shield that provides the needed safety and is acceptable in appearance to us. If you recall, we didn't want a wall shield to begin, which was exactly why we chose this stove over another. If this is something that we now need, we want to like it since we'll need to look at it for the next 30-years.

Yes we nixed:
1) move the stove: looks stupid when moved over as proposed
2) black wall shield: ugly (in our view) - again, chose this stove over another model because it wouldn't need shielding where it was installed - or so we thought
3) single-wall: would meet the 15" clearance to the side, but not the 18" needed from the pipe to the back wall. Yes, I know there are pipe shields but don't want one

Your stove is listed for less than the 18" clearance that is simply a default in untested stoves. You can put your stove as close to the back wall as the instructions state.

 

[sesro1978]

Your stove is listed for less than the 18" clearance that is simply a default in untested stoves. You can put your stove as close to the back wall as the instructions state.

This is what I see in the manual:
Single-wall connector rear clearance to an unprotected surface: 11"
Chimney connector vertical installation: 11"

Seems obvious, but I'll ask anyway - that means that 11" of clearance is required from back of the stove to the unprotected wall?

 

[sesro1978]

This is the latest from the sales person:
I'm not getting into margin either as it's not worth it, but the fact of the matter we service what we sell and if you need service down the road and we go out of business...

Look at the clearance info in the manual on single wall, but you would have to shield.
I mentioned this early on!

I feel as if I'm being held hostage here! While I understand they are a business that needs revenue to survive and I don't want them to go out of business, it's not my fault if they do - again it's on them. Honestly, I really just want some assistance with the wall shield which seems unlikely at this point.

 

[bholler]

This is the latest from the sales person:
I'm not getting into margin either as it's not worth it, but the fact of the matter we service what we sell and if you need service down the road and we go out of business...

Look at the clearance info in the manual on single wall, but you would have to shield.
I mentioned this early on!

I feel as if I'm being held hostage here! While I understand they are a business that needs revenue to survive and I don't want them to go out of business, it's not my fault if they do - again it's on them. Honestly, I really just want some assistance with the wall shield which seems unlikely at this point.

There are plenty of good sweeps working in vermont who will gladly service your stove. I wouldnt worry about that

 

[Trey1979]

You would think that yes. Sadly the reality is there are some "pros" who dont think that way. And as a pro my self it really pisses me off.

I have been In carpentry and home repair for 25 years family having 50 plus years and I'm thinking of adding chimney sweeping and installing stoves and inserts to my list of things i can do..even in Mississippi we burn alot of wood

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[Trey1979]

My response to that would be with a letter from a lawyer. Their margins dont matter in the least. You paid them to do a safe professional install they did not. If they loose money on the job because of that it is on them not you.

So true

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[Ashful]

See to me letting them get away with endangering my family would make me loose much more sleep than harrasing them about it would.

... and that’s why I wish you were my sweep/installer. Unfortunately, I’ve gotten used to the fact that I can’t count on trusting contractors, by default. There are a few out there that are absolutely fantastic, but as with all professions, there are a lot of bums. It’s a shame, but you really need to do your own research, as a consumer, to be sure what you are getting is safe and good. That is, until you find someone who is really good at their profession, and then you hang onto them like gold.

 

[bholler]

I have been In carpentry and home repair for 25 years family having 50 plus years and I'm thinking of adding chimney sweeping and installing stoves and inserts to my list of things i can do..even in Mississippi we burn alot of wood

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Ok more sweeps are always welcome. But there is allot to learn. No one part of the job is very complicated at all. But there are a lot of parts.

 

[maple1]

I agree - I really don't want them back in my house. The acceptable solution is that we (I) will construct a wall shield that provides the needed safety and is acceptable in appearance to us. If you recall, we didn't want a wall shield to begin, which was exactly why we chose this stove over another. If this is something that we now need, we want to like it since we'll need to look at it for the next 30-years.

Yes we nixed:
1) move the stove: looks stupid when moved over as proposed
2) black wall shield: ugly (in our view) - again, chose this stove over another model because it wouldn't need shielding where it was installed - or so we thought
3) single-wall: would meet the 15" clearance to the side, but not the 18" needed from the pipe to the back wall. Yes, I know there are pipe shields but don't want one

Why does a shield need to be black?

We have a silver colored textured metal shield behind our stove at our cottage. I think it looks pretty good, whether it is there for form or function.

Sure the stove wasn't installed right, which was a mistake on their part - but this seem to me to be a really easy fix.

 

[begreen]

This is what I see in the manual:
Single-wall connector rear clearance to an unprotected surface: 11"
Chimney connector vertical installation: 11"

Seems obvious, but I'll ask anyway - that means that 11" of clearance is required from back of the stove to the unprotected wall?

Yes. Though I personally would be very uncomfortable with that spec, it is what they have listed.

 

[begreen]

Why does a shield need to be black?

It doesn't. There is no color requirement.

 

[maple1]

It doesn't. There is no color requirement.

Well, yes - but it seems to need to be by the post I quoted.

 

[sesro1978]

It doesn't. There is no color requirement.

The shield doesn't need to be black, but that's what they offered me. They have a bronze color too but again, not into it.

 

[Trey1979]

Ok more sweeps are always welcome. But there is allot to learn. No one part of the job is very complicated at all. But there are a lot of parts.

I sure would like to know all I can around here there is know one to my knowledge that could teach me and I sure wouldnt want to put a family's life in danger

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[bholler]

I sure would like to know all I can around here there is know one to my knowledge that could teach me and I sure wouldnt want to put a family's life in danger

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There is the csia training facility. And many state guilds hold workshops and training events.

 

[kborndale]

The shield doesn't need to be black, but that's what they offered me. They have a bronze color too but again, not into it.

Nothing some high-heat spray paint couldn't fix.

 

[edyit]

I know the heat shield isn't what you want, but if you're settling on it as the fix they make stove bright paint in a lot of colors

(broken link removed to http://forrestpaint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/SBCC2017.pdf)

 

[Jotel me this]

I didnt say get a lawyer. I said have a lawyer send a letter. In my experience that doesnt cost much and can get results. As i said before to me it wouldnt be about the money.

apologies! i didnt by any means infer that you were suggesting a lawyer and wasnt even trying to quote you.

it was a general statement that ive had people tell me countless times in the past... something going on in my life, "just get a lawyer"..

 

[Jotel me this]

Following up on this as I received a response from the dealer.

Honestly, not sure how to respond to this and I'm a little rip-$%&* about it. Maybe I'm off base? How do margins figure into this - seems like an excuse or diversion...? I honestly don't give a rats-butt what their margins look like...

Also, I recall discussing single-wall and I was told (by this same person) that it was not a good idea and that we were better off with double-wall.

Not that its the easiest way by any means, but couldn't a rip-down of the Sheetrock and an install of 1/2" cement board fix all this?
..again, i know its not the easiest