Stoll Heat Champion - Any actual users (or know someone with one)?

[webby3650]

Nice build. I’m glad you gave it a go!
I love an open wood burning fireplace. The bricks and anything near the opening of my fireplace get screaming hot, while the rest of my house continually gets colder. With a fire right behind the steel there’s no doubt the steel will get screaming hot too! I do like what you did, don’t get me wrong. Our fireplace will blow you out of the room, but the rest of the house still isn’t heated and continues to get colder.

 

[Edmonchuck]

Thanks.

The steel reaches 250-300 C as I try to keep the flame centered in the firebox. That keeps expansion under the 2 mm range.

The biggest thing the steel front does is keep the airflow of combustion air out of the home to a minimum. From a 12 cubic foot warm air vacuum to a sliver of air. With the old firebox being wide open, the room would just stay at 16 C no matter how hard you burned...which is why this fireplace rarely was used.

The bricks immediately adjacent the steel reach 100 C, and then about 12" away, they are more like 65 C. The whole mass reaches an average of 30 C, but that's because the ceiling fan moves a ton of air out of the room to moderate the home.

 

[bholler]

Thanks.

The steel reaches 250-300 C as I try to keep the flame centered in the firebox. That keeps expansion under the 2 mm range.

The biggest thing the steel front does is keep the airflow of combustion air out of the home to a minimum. From a 12 cubic foot warm air vacuum to a sliver of air. With the old firebox being wide open, the room would just stay at 16 C no matter how hard you burned...which is why this fireplace rarely was used.

The bricks immediately adjacent the steel reach 100 C, and then about 12" away, they are more like 65 C. The whole mass reaches an average of 30 C, but that's because the ceiling fan moves a ton of air out of the room to moderate the home.

Does the chimney have all the required clearances to combustibles? When fireplaces are only used for an occasional recreational fire it wasn't as big of a deal. Now that you are burning it for heat. And the dilution air volume is reduced those clearances are much more important

 

[Edmonchuck]

Yes, and then some.

The brick surround you see wraps around to the other side, and the basement masonry stand is under this as well. There are 3 stacks, 2 8" and 1 12" masonry exits. The entire stack is then wrapped in 8x12 concrete blocks with a minimum of 16" of air space between the edge and the chimney. The stack sits inside the entire bottom masony base which is 15' x 15', the walls on 2 sides are 8x12 concrete blocks, and then the outer 2 sides are 8 x 12 concrete blocks with a wall of 4" x 8" red bricks (not veneer, full bricks). Inside the 15' x 20' surround, the chimney stacks are in the middle.

This entire stack houses 3 units, which 2 were designed for high heat (the downstairs furnace/fireplace, the coal fired indoor BBQ on the north side) and then this south one was meant to heat as well using a fireback, but my parents never used it just in case the Pope came over...you know the drill...the room so pristine you couldn't fart in it just in case...

The fourth firebox is a true inserted fireplace into masonry. The log holders are brick. The planters are brick. Brick surrounds the external cold air intake. The chimney there is 2 wall 6" stainless, but it is 2' + from any walls until the roof line, to which it is the standard setback.

At the closest point from any spot of flame anywhere in this system, I am 2' from any combustibles. I'm counting the floor, hearth, surrounds, mantles (which are all masonry), ornaments (which save for the clock are all stone),

Truly, this entire set up is masonry. I was not kidding when I mentioned that a) the mason was a long time journeyman bricklayer that worked in refineries at much higher temps and pressures, yet designed this with this experience and the fact that we had tons of brick and b) my father loved fires, but was absolutely terrified of an uncontrolled one. Hence all the masonry and not one exposed single wall stack.

The basement furnace - what we heated the whole house with at one time and is also the base for the 3 main units. There is about 4' of concrete under this as well. Sorry for the mess, but this is the next reno/refirb project.



The South side the one I modified) stands on top of the right hand side of the basement masonry block. As you see, the center 8 x 16 beam also uses this masonry block as a support.



The North side (left hand wall of the basement block) is the masonry indoor BBQ - the one that in another thread I was looking for ideas. Again, build like a brick S***house.



There is no drywall in behind these stacks, and these stacks also hold up a center beam for the roof trusses. The whole stack is crucial for the house.

The chimney stack. The center chimney is the BBQ, the left is the basement, and the right is the new/old fireplace I built. Note the lack of smoke coming from the right side...I burn as clean as I can.



I also included a shot of the back of the chimney stack from when it was colder last month. Note the lack of melt on the top, and again the lack of thick smoke. In this angle (north looking south or the reverse of the above stack picture), the modified piece is the left hand exit. Also, in this show, the far left exit for the fourth fireplace is visible, in operation, and no major smoke.



The fourth fireplace, showing the amount of masonry around. This entire piece is ~1984. To the right of the TV are the brick stairs coming into this room, and the brick lower wood rack has the primary box, followed by a secondary area to warm up wood that extends 10' to the left of the bottom wood picture.





So, sorry for the long post, but it also helped me think through all this yet again. Yes, you are wise to bring up clearances as most people don't think of it. I too have seen installs that are frightening - yellowing paint on the drywall behind as the heat is too great for example. My wife thinks I am nuts as I frequently go out and check the chimneys to make sure they are exhausting properly and not smoking heavily or at all. I also have been taking frequent temperature measurements all around the central stack and fascias while I break in this new box and learn. However, this entire center stack was built to be run simultaneously, as well as being a crucial support structure.

Welcome to 1974 - where if it was worth doing, it was worth overdoing as far as structural supports went.

 

[begreen]

Looks like a mason's dream. Was the last fireplace with the gold doors made later? The grout work looks rough, like it was intended to be covered.

 

[Edmonchuck]

Yes. The original stack was 1974. The fourth box with the brass doors and log holder was 1984. The rough grout work is intentional, as you see the level surfaces are smoothed and leveled. The reason is the bricks themselves are salvaged from the old sports arena/exhibition center that was torn down/imploded in 1982. They tried to blow it up, and failed. They then used a wreaking ball. Dad got a lot of the bricks from that as they were giving them away. The rough work hides some imperfections in the bricks anyway, and it is a great story to tell of where they came from.

 

[bholler]

Yes, and then some.

The brick surround you see wraps around to the other side, and the basement masonry stand is under this as well. There are 3 stacks, 2 8" and 1 12" masonry exits. The entire stack is then wrapped in 8x12 concrete blocks with a minimum of 16" of air space between the edge and the chimney. The stack sits inside the entire bottom masony base which is 15' x 15', the walls on 2 sides are 8x12 concrete blocks, and then the outer 2 sides are 8 x 12 concrete blocks with a wall of 4" x 8" red bricks (not veneer, full bricks). Inside the 15' x 20' surround, the chimney stacks are in the middle.

This entire stack houses 3 units, which 2 were designed for high heat (the downstairs furnace/fireplace, the coal fired indoor BBQ on the north side) and then this south one was meant to heat as well using a fireback, but my parents never used it just in case the Pope came over...you know the drill...the room so pristine you couldn't fart in it just in case...

The fourth firebox is a true inserted fireplace into masonry. The log holders are brick. The planters are brick. Brick surrounds the external cold air intake. The chimney there is 2 wall 6" stainless, but it is 2' + from any walls until the roof line, to which it is the standard setback.

At the closest point from any spot of flame anywhere in this system, I am 2' from any combustibles. I'm counting the floor, hearth, surrounds, mantles (which are all masonry), ornaments (which save for the clock are all stone),

Truly, this entire set up is masonry. I was not kidding when I mentioned that a) the mason was a long time journeyman bricklayer that worked in refineries at much higher temps and pressures, yet designed this with this experience and the fact that we had tons of brick and b) my father loved fires, but was absolutely terrified of an uncontrolled one. Hence all the masonry and not one exposed single wall stack.

The basement furnace - what we heated the whole house with at one time and is also the base for the 3 main units. There is about 4' of concrete under this as well. Sorry for the mess, but this is the next reno/refirb project.

View attachment 259169

The South side the one I modified) stands on top of the right hand side of the basement masonry block. As you see, the center 8 x 16 beam also uses this masonry block as a support.

View attachment 259170

The North side (left hand wall of the basement block) is the masonry indoor BBQ - the one that in another thread I was looking for ideas. Again, build like a brick S***house.

View attachment 259171

There is no drywall in behind these stacks, and these stacks also hold up a center beam for the roof trusses. The whole stack is crucial for the house.

The chimney stack. The center chimney is the BBQ, the left is the basement, and the right is the new/old fireplace I built. Note the lack of smoke coming from the right side...I burn as clean as I can.

View attachment 259177

I also included a shot of the back of the chimney stack from when it was colder last month. Note the lack of melt on the top, and again the lack of thick smoke. In this angle (north looking south or the reverse of the above stack picture), the modified piece is the left hand exit. Also, in this show, the far left exit for the fourth fireplace is visible, in operation, and no major smoke.

View attachment 259172

The fourth fireplace, showing the amount of masonry around. This entire piece is ~1984. To the right of the TV are the brick stairs coming into this room, and the brick lower wood rack has the primary box, followed by a secondary area to warm up wood that extends 10' to the left of the bottom wood picture.

View attachment 259174

View attachment 259175

So, sorry for the long post, but it also helped me think through all this yet again. Yes, you are wise to bring up clearances as most people don't think of it. I too have seen installs that are frightening - yellowing paint on the drywall behind as the heat is too great for example. My wife thinks I am nuts as I frequently go out and check the chimneys to make sure they are exhausting properly and not smoking heavily or at all. I also have been taking frequent temperature measurements all around the central stack and fascias while I break in this new box and learn. However, this entire center stack was built to be run simultaneously, as well as being a crucial support structure.

Welcome to 1974 - where if it was worth doing, it was worth overdoing as far as structural supports went.

I can see the firebox has plenty of masonry. But the chimney it self we see above the roof line doesn't have that much mass and it needs to have clearance between the outside of that structure and any combustibles. With your interior chimney that needs to be 2" in the us I believe it is the same in Canada. I have seen thousands of chimneys built by very experienced masons and very very few of them have proper clearances. The fact that you say it is a structural support tells me you really can't have proper clearances.

 

[begreen]

What if the chimney is atypical and has much more masonry shoulder thickness at the support points than what pokes out of the roof?

 

[Edmonchuck]

^this.

I can assure you @bholler, there are more than the proper clearances. What you are seeing is a wrapped masonry shell, with air pockets inside that are 3-5" apart from any cement blocks surrounding the chimney. Inside, the ceiling stops at the outer walls, and a secondary fireproof ceiling begins.

So, there is definitely nothing combustible within 2", and definitely farther than that.

I think pictures belie the real scale of the stack.

Also, as begreen says, the chmney stack that pokes out only supports itself. The larger outer walls of the fireplaces does the other work, and only go to the ceiling . The attic has the chimney masses, and they do NOT impart any heat load to the attic or roof - that was the point of the second chimney shot where you see all the snow still on the roof and the chimney mass. Whereas on the metal mass for the other fireplace, the snow cap is long gone.

I can appreciate your experience, but again, the mason here built linings for oil refineries, smelters, etc. While I was young at the time these were built, I can see how overbuilt and careful he was. It truly is overdone. It must have cost a fortune...I have never seen another set up like it in a modern home.

 

[bholler]

^this.

I can assure you @bholler, there are more than the proper clearances. What you are seeing is a wrapped masonry shell, with air pockets inside that are 3-5" apart from any cement blocks surrounding the chimney. Inside, the ceiling stops at the outer walls, and a secondary fireproof ceiling begins.

So, there is definitely nothing combustible within 2", and definitely farther than that.

I think pictures belie the real scale of the stack.

Also, as begreen says, the chmney stack that pokes out only supports itself. The larger outer walls of the fireplaces does the other work, and only go to the ceiling . The attic has the chimney masses, and they do NOT impart any heat load to the attic or roof - that was the point of the second chimney shot where you see all the snow still on the roof and the chimney mass. Whereas on the metal mass for the other fireplace, the snow cap is long gone.

I can appreciate your experience, but again, the mason here built linings for oil refineries, smelters, etc. While I was young at the time these were built, I can see how overbuilt and careful he was. It truly is overdone. It must have cost a fortune...I have never seen another set up like it in a modern home.

I don't think you understand. You need 2" from the outside of the structure not from the clay liner. Knowing how to build industrial stacks doesn't necessarily translate into residential fireplace construction.

 

[bholler]

What if the chimney is atypical and has much more masonry shoulder thickness at the support points than what pokes out of the roof?

It would probably be safe but there is no exemption for that in code.

 

[begreen]

And that is why code is not gospel. It is written for the average circumstance and often does not include the exceptions.

 

[bholler]

And that is why code is not gospel. It is written for the average circumstance and often does not include the exceptions.

I agree and there are certainly plenty of instances where things can be perfectly safe and against code. But the chimney structure sticking through the roof is not all that large. So without proper clearances that could be an issue

 

[Edmonchuck]

It is 4 feet above the roofline. I cropped the shot so you could see just the chimney. The flashing around this 2.5' x 5' x 4' struture has more than enough room. The massing can't even melt the adjacent snow. I'm so not worried.

 

[bholler]

It is 4 feet above the roofline. I cropped the shot so you could see just the chimney. The flashing around this 2.5' x 5' x 4' struture has more than enough room. The massing can't even melt the adjacent snow. I'm so not worried.

I understand you are not worried.

 

[ScottinSSMD]

Absolutely love ours. Heats the whole floor with fan on low. 1 log/hr all day keeps it cozy.

 

[ScottinSSMD]

We have one and use all the time. Blower is quiet and fills the entire 1,200sf basement as well as radiates upstairs. Looking for a second unit for upper floor. Can never find one used. May have to custom order another. Add a log an hour and stays lit. Usually run through the weekend.

 

[john26]

We have one and use all the time. Blower is quiet and fills the entire 1,200sf basement as well as radiates upstairs. Looking for a second unit for upper floor. Can never find one used. May have to custom order another. Add a log an hour and stays lit. Usually run through the weekend.

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