Stoll Heat Champion - Any actual users (or know someone with one)?

[john26]

I was in the same situation with 2 masonry fireplaces I looked at the heat champion and passed. I found 2 very nice used inserts FB market place shopped around for liner and insulation rented a lift and did a self install $1700 with a $500 lift rental. I mostly burn down hardwood I cut myself though.

 

[webby3650]

No, as stated earlier, I wrote off the Champion as pretty much unanimously here people made it clear that I was a fool/idiot/complete moron for buying this.

So, I looked at the Blaze King Princess, Osburn 2400, and a few others since my last post in October. When installers came out, not only did they want to charge me a lot more for being about 3 miles outside the service zone, but they looked at the flue and said that it wouldn't be a simple job - it would take some brick bashing to make it right. So, for the Blaze King, I'd be looking at 10K all in. ...and given that I burn mainly Trembling Aspen, there appears to be no need to be going for the uber-efficient stove with either the great cats nor the secondary combustion as it appears that I would only get that for a few minutes anyway...and many here seem to have trouble keeping it going on a good fire anyway. So, I am not going to pay for chords and chords of Maple to be sent my way when I have acres of Trembling Aspen, a lot of deadfall that would be more than I can burn yearly, and then drop $10K to get a few more minutes of heat.

It literally looks like a huge law of diminishing returns the further I go down this rathole vs just getting a really efficient NG central furnace to replace my 1990's Lennox. I was planning to use some of the heat to keep the stress off the Lennox...

10K is crazy! A typical BK insert with 25’ insulated liner should be $6k or less. A BK would do just fine on that aspen by the way.

 

[webby3650]

Yes and it is not much more than a glorified set of doors. No way is it worth the cost

I certainly don’t disagree with that!
Stoll quit producing literature on them, it’s not a big seller. We’ve done 6 or so I’d say. I don’t get the appeal..

 

[upfroggy]

I just had my Heat Champion installed today. I am AMAZED! I've had this fireplace in this house for 3 years. I've had a wood stove for decades. She didn't want to ruin the ambiance of our extra large fireplace with a small windowed wood stove. The unit costs a bit more than glass doors, and it comes with ceramic glass doors - the unit is a LOT more than the doors themselves. My fireplace has never burned like this - it looks like a wood stove. It does eat through wood, but I don't pack it. A piece or so every 20 min once it gets going. I'm at day 1, but I am pretty impressed. People say it's no better than doors? They have never used a heat champion. If you don't want to line your chimney, or don't want to ruin the look of your extra large fireplace, this is a great option This is the warmest I've ever been in December - EVER

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm amazed anyone's wife would say yes stoll product in their house. I don't see how it looks better than an insert or stove.

 

[upfroggy]

It's in our living room, and our fireplace is 48" wide. I really fought for an insert, but even the largest would add more steel than glass. It was this or doors, and as I mentioned, the high heat doors were not that much less. This is way better than doors. If we had a smaller fireplace, we would have gone with an insert, but again, with a 40' chimney, that installation would cost as much as the stove. This was a compromise, and I think a pretty good one.

 

[bholler]

It's in our living room, and our fireplace is 48" wide. I really fought for an insert, but even the largest would add more steel than glass. It was this or doors, and as I mentioned, the high heat doors were not that much less. This is way better than doors. If we had a smaller fireplace, we would have gone with an insert, but again, with a 40' chimney, that installation would cost as much as the stove. This was a compromise, and I think a pretty good one.

So a piece of wood every 20 mins and you are happy with that? Did you have your chimney properly inspected to be sure it is safe?

 

[Edmonchuck]

Interesting

@upfroggy, I must ask how you got a price just slightly larger than just doors. When I looked at this, the price was almost 6X just doors. This started at $3500 without options. Maybe I was given a wrong quote?

Also, a piece of wood every 20 minutes seems excessive even for an open hearth. My hearth is large as well, and as is burns at 90 minutes of flame and a few hours of coals.

@SpaceBus, the answer to your "wife" question is simple. I was looking for the same reason. A big hulk of steel, surrounded by a big hunk of steel, looks like a huge blackhead in the firebox. If you want a firebox that fits the size, gets rid of a large steel plate surround (or upgrade to something nicer), then the $$$$$ adds up to OMFG levels. Remember, some people don't nerd out with efficiency numbers or promises of unrealistic 30 hour burn times....like with cars, I'll look at economy, power, torque curves, gear ratios, and the like...my wife picks the blue one. That's not an insult to her...she's a well respected lawyer who often gets rulings that change law....she just not interested in engineering or mechanics. That's my role.

 

[bholler]

Interesting

@upfroggy, I must ask how you got a price just slightly larger than just doors. When I looked at this, the price was almost 6X just doors. This started at $3500 without options. Maybe I was given a wrong quote?

Also, a piece of wood every 20 minutes seems excessive even for an open hearth. My hearth is large as well, and as is burns at 90 minutes of flame and a few hours of coals.

@SpaceBus, the answer to your "wife" question is simple. I was looking for the same reason. A big hulk of steel, surrounded by a big hunk of steel, looks like a huge blackhead in the firebox. If you want a firebox that fits the size, gets rid of a large steel plate surround (or upgrade to something nicer), then the $$$$$ adds up to OMFG levels. Remember, some people don't nerd out with efficiency numbers or promises of unrealistic 30 hour burn times....like with cars, I'll look at economy, power, torque curves, gear ratios, and the like...my wife picks the blue one. That's not an insult to her...she's a well respected lawyer who often gets rulings that change law....she just not interested in engineering or mechanics. That's my role.

30 hour burn times are not unrealistic for some stoves.

 

[webby3650]

I'm amazed anyone's wife would say yes stoll product in their house. I don't see how it looks better than an insert or stove.

The champion is just one product made by stoll, and they sell very few of them. They make the best fireplace doors on the market, some are a real work of art and you pay for it.

 

[Edmonchuck]

30 hour burn times are followed by an asterisk. Lab conditions, perfect wood, not heating in a climate where winter is winter....

I'm all for bragging rights, but when the "if's" become lengthy...

 

[bholler]

30 hour burn times are followed by an asterisk. Lab conditions, perfect wood, not heating in a climate where winter is winter....

I'm all for bragging rights, but when the "if's" become lengthy...

No they are absolutely real from the king and the big regency almost gets there. Yes they only do it in spring and fall but that doesn't mean they can't do it.

 

[upfroggy]

Interesting

@upfroggy, I must ask how you got a price just slightly larger than just doors. When I looked at this, the price was almost 6X just doors. This started at $3500 without options. Maybe I was given a wrong quote?

Also, a piece of wood every 20 minutes seems excessive even for an open hearth. My hearth is large as well, and as is burns at 90 minutes of flame and a few hours of coals.

I'm at my second day of burning. It's 23 out, and 68 in here with the only heat being the Heat Champion. My living room is 40 by 35 with 17' ceilings. I never got close to this with just the fireplace. I've got the damper full open, and the vent in the front open as well - this thing looks like a blast furnace. I'm putting very little wood in here, and it's split real small. It does burn quickly, but I'm timing this log - we're at 55 minutes burn and it's still going strong - I shouldn't try to estimate burn times while binge watching Netflix... We paid on the order of $4300 for it. The high temp doors that she wanted were $3600 - I should have been clearer. We could have gotten doors for less, but for the size of the fireplace, tempered glass doors were more than $1000 from every quote we got in any design she liked. The team that installed it were impressed by the quality of the doors, and the look of the thing when it was installed - I think it's breathtaking. I'd love to see a better option that gives me similar fire views and reasonable heat for anywhere near that price. We looked for a very long time. Most manufactures could not accommodate a 49.5" wide opening. That pic is 42.25" from bottom left corner to upper right. I don't think I could be more happy with this thing. This was WAY cheaper than a custom insert and chimney re-line.

 

[upfroggy]

So a piece of wood every 20 mins and you are happy with that? Did you have your chimney properly inspected to be sure it is safe?

Yeah, I was way off with my burn estimates - I got sucked into a Netflix binge - we're well over an hour for a one log burn. My chimney guy was here before and after the installation - he wanted the see the thing, so yep, our chimney is good

 

[Edmonchuck]

you kind of proved my point here. You can....if you meet a/b/c/d and some e.

it is the same as flying a commercial jet. Sure, it CAN cruise at M 0.9....but only if it is high enough, cold enough....etc.

The reality is that you're loading that box far more often than 30 hours...my point is marketing hype v reality.

Then, you also cannot excuse one's hype, then deride another"s. The Heat Champion won't be as efficient as an insert, but I've seen some homebuilts like this with a heat exchange that seemed to perform quite well. ...and still had morning coals to relight. So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the every 20 minutes comment. Something isn't sealed around the masonry is my guess.

 

[bholler]

you kind of proved my point here. You can....if you meet a/b/c/d and some e.

it is the same as flying a commercial jet. Sure, it CAN cruise at M 0.9....but only if it is high enough, cold enough....etc.

The reality is that you're loading that box far more often than 30 hours...my point is marketing hype v reality.

Then, you also cannot excuse one's hype, then deride another"s. The Heat Champion won't be as efficient as an insert, but I've seen some homebuilts like this with a heat exchange that seemed to perform quite well. ...and still had morning coals to relight. So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the every 20 minutes comment. Something isn't sealed around the masonry is my guess.

I am not excusing any hype because it isn't hype. Those are maximum burn times on low. And they are absolutely achievable when btu load is low. As btu load goes up burn times go down obviously. But burn times are not efficiency. You can have very high efficiency with low burn times and low efficiency with high burn times. The heat champion falls way short of even old inserts on both counts.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, I was way off with my burn estimates - I got sucked into a Netflix binge - we're well over an hour for a one log burn. My chimney guy was here before and after the installation - he wanted the see the thing, so yep, our chimney is good

Ok even at an hour per log that is pretty poor. And regardless you are still wasting most of your heat up the chimney after spending thousands on a set of doors

 

[upfroggy]

Ok even at an hour per log that is pretty poor. And regardless you are still wasting most of your heat up the chimney after spending thousands on a set of doors

No one is disputing that, but it's a glorious view while it burns, and it effectively warms my room while it does it. Sure, I can completely ruin the esthetic of my home while burning the wood that falls naturally on my property more efficiently, but it's WAY more effective than it was, and the look is flat out gorgeous.

 

[bholler]

No one is disputing that, but it's a glorious view while it burns, and it effectively warms my room while it does it. Sure, I can completely ruin the esthetic of my home while burning the wood that falls naturally on my property more efficiently, but it's WAY more effective than it was, and the look is flat out gorgeous.

Fair enough

 

[weatherguy]

It's much better than an open fireplace and not everyone is trying to get every last btu out of a piece of wood like we are, some just like a nice fire occassionly that warms them up. My wife likes an open fireplace now and then.

 

[bholler]

It's much better than an open fireplace and not everyone is trying to get every last btu out of a piece of wood like we are, some just like a nice fire occassionly that warms them up. My wife likes an open fireplace now and then.

I agree. I just don't see that the meager gains are worth the massive cost.

 

[weatherguy]

Yeah, starting at $3500 for this cover is not where I thought it would start...but that is where the "basic" model fell in.

sorry, I thought you were married.

 

[Edmonchuck]

So, sorry to zombie this thread...

I went ahead and built a version of the Heat Champion. It isn't ornate, but this was an experiment that all in is under 1/10th of an insert's cost and works extremely well IMO.

Attached are some before and after pictures. The steel is 3/16 hot rolled and the square tubes are 1/8 thick x 1 1/2 OD. The doors come off an older fireplace and cost me $20, all in, including new neoceram glass and gaskets (pays to look on Kijiji). I plumbed in cold air from the basement, mortared in all the joints and edges, used glass blankets where needed, and the gasket tape for other spots. All hidden from view.

Again, I use Trembling Aspen (white poplar) as it is abundant. I have groves of birch and tamarack but the value for sale is high so I'd rather take the income from sales, and burn the Aspen. On the ranch, I have more dead-fall in aspen than I could ever burn in a year on my older fireplace. I get about 3 hours of flame, and I have coals ready for a relight using the lower intake grate as a bellows for about another 6-8, and 12 if I use handheld bellows.

Cold air is drawn up from the basement through the old ash dump (never used as such) and into the heat exchanger. Right now, I have a 200 cfm fan pumping heat into the ash tube (8" x 12" x 6' tall) so I do have decent outlet flow. I also lined the top of the exchanger with 1 1/2 x 9 firebrick, leaving a 3" gap on either side for exhaust. Outlet temps are shown on the pictures, and are in Celcius.

Even though I had thoughts of this for awhile, this was installed in a bit of a rush as this late winter/early spring has surprised us with colder than average temps, by a lot. A few nights lows smashed records, reaching -23 C. In March, that is not a common occurrence, and for a couple weeks, we've been 20 degrees C colder than normal. We should be at 10 C for a high on average, and not freezing at night. In this time, I have only burned about 1/4 cord of Aspen, with a heavy burn given the temps. The house (3200 sq ft) is about 26 C in the fireplace, and 23 in the extremities. Ranch style bungalow, 100' x 35', and not a really open floorplan thanks to the 1974 build. A couple ceiling fans on medium and Bob's your Uncle.

I could probably get more heat out of the exchanger with a better fan. I am looking for an 8" duct fan with remote for the rheostat to get up to 600 cfm, or I have a creative solution to get there with some fans I have lying around.

After running it for 3 weeks of my current billing cycle, I received my bills. I am down $100 in gas, and $60 in power from last month. Most of that cost is fees based on consumption, but the interesting thing is that the addition of a Carbon Tax was on this bill, so with the Carbon Tax, I was still down.

I can't do a Y/Y comparison as the outside temps last year were in the +15 to 20 C range, so those bills were low, and running a fireplace would be stupid.

So no, it is not ornate, which is what Stoll would give you. Yes, I used a bit heavier steel. Yes, mine looks old which is the intent - it needed to look like it was an original install. Yes, it is not hermetically sealed, but I've done a few leak tests and achieved really amazing results (a small leak between the doors is it). The lower grate is a hurricane when opened full and I can light from the smallest of coal beds. My first couple loads were a little too wet, but I had more than enough airflow to make them burn well.

CONS:

You have to do all the work yourself, including the math on expansion, flow rates, etc.
No warranty.
You need to really understand your firebox.
Stoll will cost more, but as shown here, with the heat exchanger/blower option, it would do the same things IMO. I do still have concerns with the blower motor being over the exhaust vs mine being 6' below and staying nice and cool.

I was lucky. I had a pristine firebox to start with, lined with premium refractory brick from the bricklayer who also did Exxon's refineries, so it is overbuilt. The other 2 fireboxes in this stack are also overbuilt, including the indoor BBQ that is coal fired. My set up is the fire breathing equivalent of the cliche "built like a brick sh!thouse".

Would I do this on a heavily used firebox? It depends on its condition, but given some of the haphazard builds I've seen throughout North America where wannabe masons threw something together? No. For one, I took the time to calculate the expansion factor of the metal, and even then I was a bit tight. On a poorly built masonry firebox, it could be a problem.

Again, for what I paid, I couldn't be happier for this application. For a new build, or a firebox that is of questionable condition or quality, get an insert, or a standalone stove. I did this more to see what the reality was vs some of the educated opinions I saw on this thread, and I had the steel, the time, and the drawings.

Thanks for reading.

 

[begreen]

Are you stoll around?

Nice project. It looks quite stout and sounds like you are getting a lot more heat out of the fireplace. What is the plan for cleaning the chimney?

 

[Edmonchuck]

ba da bum...He's here 'til Thursday...and please, try the veal...



I used the heavier steel to get that old school feel to it, and to prevent warping. It also is a nice heat sink when combined with the refractory bricks this is built from.

As for the chimney cleaning, same as before. Open the damper and sweep away. It is still the same old 8 inch masonry chimney. That was one of the factors why I wanted to try this method. I wanted ease of maintenance as well as long life. The firebrick on top of the heat exchanger is just resting on it - a factor I put into the design. It makes removing and replacing as simple as reaching in. I can pull off the brick, sweep the chimney, and put it back. But as you see, with the Aspen I have which is aged 3 years, very little creosote accumulates. Yes, the wet pieces I had to start with sucked, but it all burned off when I was able to access the old sheltered pile.