Started as stove talk now thread about marriage, etc...
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
MRD, I'm guessing most of your rounds were under 20" diameter? A 20" bar will run fine on 50cc, until you get the nose fully-buried in something big. Then it struggles.
Caw, I'm telling you, skip the 261/026's, and go straight to MS-362. The MS-362 can pull a full 20" bar with a factory grind, without bogging under load. The 026/261 can do it, if it's what you've already got, but it won't be real happy with you.
I've owned multiple 50cc saws, and found they're much happier with 16" and 18" bars, when buried past the nose in oak. A 20" bar on 50cc is best left for the softwood guys north and west of us.
If you run a more aggressive than factory grind, as I do, then drop the bar sizes another increment. I would run 18" on an MS-362, if setting up a new saw today, because I like to take my depth gauges below factory set, for a faster cut.
If I owned only one saw (the horror!), it would be an MS-4xx. Given Stihl's weirdly-troublesome history with 70cc saws, it'd be whichever one was causing owners the fewest issues, in that particular vintage. 70-75cc hits a real sweet spot, of enough power to get through anything, even with some struggle, while not being as heavy and ornery as the big saws.
Caw, I'm telling you, skip the 261/026's, and go straight to MS-362. The MS-362 can pull a full 20" bar with a factory grind, without bogging under load. The 026/261 can do it, if it's what you've already got, but it won't be real happy with you.
I've owned multiple 50cc saws, and found they're much happier with 16" and 18" bars, when buried past the nose in oak. A 20" bar on 50cc is best left for the softwood guys north and west of us.
If you run a more aggressive than factory grind, as I do, then drop the bar sizes another increment. I would run 18" on an MS-362, if setting up a new saw today, because I like to take my depth gauges below factory set, for a faster cut.
If I owned only one saw (the horror!), it would be an MS-4xx. Given Stihl's weirdly-troublesome history with 70cc saws, it'd be whichever one was causing owners the fewest issues, in that particular vintage. 70-75cc hits a real sweet spot, of enough power to get through anything, even with some struggle, while not being as heavy and ornery as the big saws.
I’ve yet to see this struggle of any log I’ve cut. A couple of these logs were over 20” and it didn’t struggle. In my opinion it is not underpowered with a 20” bar. Engine is 4 hp.
Caw
Minister of Fire
If I were to get a Ms 261 or 550 xp I'd run the 18" bar. I don't really need the 20" everything I'm cutting is 28" or under white the majority being under 20" so big ones are a double cut either way which is fine with a good powerful saw.
The 362 is definitely a bigger better saw but also heavier and honestly feels like overkill. I really don't get that many giants. It's a good $200 more expensive. I feel like for my needs it would be a good second saw for the odd big boys I get but I'd prefer a smaller primary option.
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A 60cc saw is a great one saw plan. In other words, it's a great all around saw. Good for up to a 24'' bar too.
For me, I shied away from the 60cc line up, because I'm in tree service. Once I'm done with a 50cc, on limbing and smaller bucking, I jump right up to the 72cc. If that saw is working a little hard I jump up to a 75 or 80cc ride. For the big stuff, the 95 or 99cc come out for play time.
For the guy cutting firewood on his homestead, 60cc foots the bill.
For me, I shied away from the 60cc line up, because I'm in tree service. Once I'm done with a 50cc, on limbing and smaller bucking, I jump right up to the 72cc. If that saw is working a little hard I jump up to a 75 or 80cc ride. For the big stuff, the 95 or 99cc come out for play time.
For the guy cutting firewood on his homestead, 60cc foots the bill.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
lol. Ignoring top-handle and pole saws, the 63cc Stihl 036 is my small saw. I have owned up to 125cc, but my main squeeze now is an 85cc Stihl 064 AV.
I will agree the 362 is a bloated pig, compared to their older 361 and 036. Same horsepower, but why the extra weight!? Emissions crap? If I were shopping replacements today, it might be 361 over 362, but for now my 036 still runs great.
As to MS-250, I have had multiple 50cc saws, and you can definitely get by with them. But if you say they’re not struggling with a 20” bar buried past the nose in oak, you must be running a slower-cutting chain, not full chisel and full comp. Maybe you’re running .325 low profile? The MS250 could probably pull that at 20”, but it cuts slower than standard chain, in everything.
I cut a lot of wood, 10-20 cords every year, the last 12 years, even if we ignore the four fireplaces I fed in my prior home. I’ve owned numerous saws, including at least two that I can remember at 50cc, as well as 40cc and 63cc saws for close comparisons. I used to cut several days per year with an MS-250, that my former cutting partner started carrying, when he got too old to carry larger saws. So, I’m speaking from some experience.
I see moe just chimed in, an actual tree service guy, and agrees with my conclusion, even if his own plan preferences differ. If I were cutting smaller stuff, and didn’t need 85cc, then I’d own an MS-250 with 16” and an MS-44x with 24”, similar to moe. But since I really need to run at least 28” (and occasionally larger) for the stuff I’m cutting, I was only looking at 064/066/66x saws. The 036/36x are the best pairing to 90cc, given the relative bar sizes.
Yes, I do agree. That said, I don't play with a model 250. For Stihl it's the 261c and for Husky the 550.
Both are powerhouse 50cc. If you have not run neither, you don't know what your missing. LOL
When I leave the yard, I take my top handle 201tc, the 261c, and since my MS440 is down I grab the 461.
With just this trio, I can pretty much handle any work I come across.
That’s what I use. mS261 C. Cuts like a larger saw.
next big storm pull the breaker and light the stove.
Caw
Minister of Fire
We're talking about the MS 261 and Husky 550 xp. They are the beast mode 50 cc saws. Id personally run the 18" but 20" is fine too.
I don't want a MS 250 it's only 45 cc and basically a lateral move from my 440. Only a slight improvement.
I don't run the crazy chains either I keep it simple with a semi chisel that I keep sharp. Yeah a full chisel skip would be way faster but I am not in a rush and prefer the more cautious chain.
Caw
Minister of Fire
The power went out honey idk what happened! Good thing we have this stove. That's actually a hilariously good idea. Assuming she's too naive to figure it out. Getting caught would be really bad.
026 is basically and older outdated saw with less power
I like echo saws. For limbing and small trees I use an echo 3510 a 35cc saw. Anything bigger I run my echo 590 which is a 60cc saw. It absolutely rips through wood. I’ve had it buried up to the tip in oak with a 20” bar full house chisel chain without bogging. I even have a 28” bar with a full skip for it that I’ve buried it to the tip in hardwoods as well. With the 28” buried in a pine log it was ripping through like it wasn’t even there.
A really bigger factor in that is how I have the saw tuned. I took off the factory limiting caps so I can get a proper tune on it. But other than that it’s completely stock no muffler mods or porting.
A really bigger factor in that is how I have the saw tuned. I took off the factory limiting caps so I can get a proper tune on it. But other than that it’s completely stock no muffler mods or porting.
Caw
Minister of Fire
Yes a bump in power. The biggest advantage is the computer controlled tune. No carb adjusting. The chipped saw will hold higher RPMs.
It's an animal of a little saw. Same for the Husky 550xp auto tune. The Husky is a tad heavier.
Caw
Minister of Fire
Or maybe he needs the 2 man version. We can buck 2 cords together in 20 minutes using 8 gallons of fuel 🤣
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I actually meant 261, not 250. I was outside typing on a phone, and thinking "50cc", when I typed 250. Sorry about that.
Okay, so let's look at the actual specs:
1. Stihl does not ship the MS-261 with standard chain, but rather smaller 0.325" chain. They do this because .325 chain requires less power, but it cuts slower, because chain speed is lower for same sprocket pin count. As I said before, put standard 3/8" chain on an MS-261, and it's going to suffer.
2. They also ship RM chain on this saw, instead of the RS chain they ship on the 36x saws. Again, RM requires less power, but cuts slower, than RS. RM is usually pushed on homeowner saws, because it can take hits on rocks and dirt better than RS and requires less frequent sharpening, but it's a slower cutter.
3. Stihl recommends a 16" bar for this saw, it's repeated all over their dealer pages:
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So again, you can put 20" of full chisel 3/8" full comp (eg. RS/RS3) chain onto an MS-261, but it is not going to cut very well. The only way to even make that saw do a half-decent job with a 20" bar is to put a slower chain on it, as in 0.325" chain, and maybe even going from full chisel (RS) to semi-chisel (RM).
That said, if you really need a 20" bar to cut stuff nearing 40" diameter, and all you own is a 50cc saw, then .325" semi-chisel chain is a great way to get it done... albeit slowly.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I should add to the above post, that we all have different motivators. I'm in this woodburning thing for the fun of it, as much as anything else. I don't need to save money, in fact burning wood costs me much more in hours than it ever will save me in dollars. When I'm out cutting wood, I want to be doing it with something that puts a smile on my face, and that means a big displacement powerhead on a tiny bar. Call it light-saber mode, if you like.
My main saw is 85cc and I run a modified grind on 3/8" RS chain on that saw. The "modified grind" is nothing special, just the usual 30/60/10 degree angles, but I take the depth gauges down about 20% farther than stock, so each tooth is taking 1.2x the bite of standard RS chain (which is already fast chain). The chips that throws look like playground mulch, compared to what you'd see coming off micro or picco chain. And it cuts so fast that every time I cut with someone new, they always comment on, "damn, how'd you cut all that wood so fast?" Again, smile time.
But taking a bigger bite without losing chain speed also requires more horsepower. Another reason to favor a smaller bar on a bigger powerhead.
I started with two saws of 40cc and 50cc displacement, and that's all I had the first year or two I got back into woodburning, after many years away from it. They got the job done, but there was no grin on my face.
My main saw is 85cc and I run a modified grind on 3/8" RS chain on that saw. The "modified grind" is nothing special, just the usual 30/60/10 degree angles, but I take the depth gauges down about 20% farther than stock, so each tooth is taking 1.2x the bite of standard RS chain (which is already fast chain). The chips that throws look like playground mulch, compared to what you'd see coming off micro or picco chain. And it cuts so fast that every time I cut with someone new, they always comment on, "damn, how'd you cut all that wood so fast?" Again, smile time.
But taking a bigger bite without losing chain speed also requires more horsepower. Another reason to favor a smaller bar on a bigger powerhead.
I started with two saws of 40cc and 50cc displacement, and that's all I had the first year or two I got back into woodburning, after many years away from it. They got the job done, but there was no grin on my face.
Caw
Minister of Fire
Yes I realize a 50cc saw with a smaller chain is going to pale in comparison to the big boy saws and aggressive chains out there. Let's be real though...I don't need that. I'm just a guy in his driveway cutting firewood who wants just a little more oomph when his saw is buried in a 18" oak log. I don't need to get crazy with chains and I'll never be cutting anything bigger than 30"...rarely more than 24". I only do 2 cords at a time. I could continue on forever with my 440, I love it, it'll just continue to be a little slower. I think I'd be perfect happy with either the 261 or 550 xp with a 0.325" semi chisel chain and 18" bar. They're very similar to my 440 just juiced up nicely.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I agree, and I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing with that. My only point of contention was the assertion that it pulls a 20" bar just fine. You need to make some concessions (such as smaller chain), if you want to run a 20" bar on a 50cc saw.
In any case, I guess we're beating a dead horse, at this point. Run what you brung!
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