So, split wood takes up more cubic feet than rounds....

[karri0n]

can someone please find that little comic strip somebody made recently with the guy sitting at the computer, the wife calling him to bed, and him saying "This is important! someone is WRONG on hearth.com!"

 

[karri0n]

OK, here we go. If someone on here can demonstrate them making a stack of rounds, measuring it, splitting it, and restacking it, and it's smaller, I will officially give them the GOLD STAR OF WOOD STACKING. I really don't believe anyone is going to be able to split the wood perfectly enough AND stack it tightly enough to take up less air space than when the wood is in a fully compacted log form.

 

[LLigetfa]

When I stack the wood that I split with my Fiskars, there is no air space between the splits..........

And yes, I have a cat stove...... :cheese:


NP

MEOW! Do I predict a cat fight?

 

[daveswoodhauler]

OK, here we go. If someone on here can demonstrate them making a stack of rounds, measuring it, splitting it, and restacking it, and it's smaller, I will officially give them the GOLD STAR OF WOOD STACKING. I really don't believe anyone is going to be able to split the wood perfectly enough AND stack it tightly enough to take up less air space than when the wood is in a fully compacted log form.

I thought the diagram proved this pretty well, but I guess not.

Take an average round size...whatever you want to use.....but lets say its 18" in diameter, and 16" high....traditional split length.
If you were to look at your pickup bed as a 3 dimensional box, we are saying that you can pit more cubic feet of split wood in that box than you can fit rounds.

Do you have a old stove/refrigerator box laying around......how many of thos rounds can you fit in it without changing the dimensions of the box and busting out the sides/tops?

Take a standard cooler, and try to fill it with gallons of milk..measure milk...then do the same with half gallon cartons and then quart cartons....let us know which way you can fit the most milk in

Another good example....just yesterday I split a ton of pine rounds that were stacked in a row.....big air gaps in between each round.....the pine is now split into kindling and is taking up less space.

 

[LLigetfa]

Another good example....just yesterday I split a ton of pine rounds that were stacked in a row.....big air gaps in between each round.....the pine is now split into kindling and is taking up less space.

Why were there big air gaps? To me that's just sloppy stacking. My wood guy asks me what size logs I want and I always ask for a variety. The smaller ones fill the air gaps around the bigger ones. I also order my logs cut to 8 foot so there are fewer gaps than with tree length. Once bucked to 20" rounds and stacked there are fewer gaps still.

One can always play with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point in their favor. The smaller the sample size and larger the round, the greater the exaggeration. A few really big rounds in a small pickup bed would have lots of gaps but a mix of sizes well laid in a larger trailer would have less air. If a firewood purveyor showed up loaded with lots of gaps, he would be sent packing.

Find a round that is the exact diameter of a 5 gallon pail and split it up into small kin'lin. It will not all fit into the pail. How's that for playing with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point?

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Another good example....just yesterday I split a ton of pine rounds that were stacked in a row.....big air gaps in between each round.....the pine is now split into kindling and is taking up less space.

Why were there big air gaps? To me that's just sloppy stacking. My wood guy asks me what size logs I want and I always ask for a variety. The smaller ones fill the air gaps around the bigger ones. I also order my logs cut to 8 foot so there are fewer gaps than with tree length. Once bucked to 20" rounds and stacked there are fewer gaps still.

One can always play with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point in their favor. The smaller the sample size and larger the round, the greater the exaggeration. A few really big rounds in a small pickup bed would have lots of gaps but a mix of sizes well laid in a larger trailer would have less air. If a firewood purveyor showed up loaded with lots of gaps, he would be sent packing.

Find a round that is the exact diameter of a 5 gallon pail and split it up into small kin'lin. It will not all fit into the pail. How's that for playing with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point?

I guess I must be a chitty round stacker then
How do you stack your rounds without any airgaps?
Also, good point on the bucket issue....we agree that the the size will vary.
Can we agree that you can fit more wood in 18" rounds in the back of your pickup versus rounds that are 30" in diameter...thats all we are getting to.
Also, I know that you having those missin pages from the sears book...i saw you take them

 

[LLigetfa]

How do you stack your rounds without any airgaps?

I said fewer not no air gaps and my OCD compels me to place the perfect size round into a particular gap.

As for the pages, some might say that I need to use lots of them. :gulp:

 

[Danno77]

ok, there are really two arguments here and some wires are crossed.

1. splits take up more volume than rounds (vs. rounds take up more volume)
2. you can fit more wood in a truck split (vs in the round)

I still believe that splits take up more volume than rounds, for the reasons stated by myself and others. I do, however, respect the argument that you can fit splits into spaces a round cannot be placed. Think about loading 8' rounds into your truck bed. what about the space behind and in front of the wheel wells? what about the space just under the side's lip? I understand that the argument is that you can cram splits into those otherwise unusable spots. SO, in the end, the opposing argument is that the extra volume splits take up can be expanded into those spots that would otherwise be empty voids. My unscientific guess is that if you fill rounds to the top of the bed vs splits to the top of the bed you'd probably get more splits in there, or at least it would be a close call. The second you start talking about putting rails on and stacking wood or rounds above the top of the bed, i'm thinking the rounds start to win out on total amount of wood.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

How do you stack your rounds without any airgaps?

I said fewer not no air gaps and my OCD compels me to place the perfect size round into a particular gap.

As for the pages, some might say that I need to use lots of them. :gulp:

I have seen your stacks, and I don't think I could fit a dime in between each split of yours
Glad that catalogue has a lot of pages in it :gulp:

 

[LLigetfa]

ok, there are really two arguments here and some wires are crossed.

1. splits take up more volume than rounds (vs. rounds take up more volume)
2. you can fit more wood in a truck split (vs in the round)

I still believe that splits take up more volume than rounds, for the reasons stated by myself and others. I do, however, respect the argument that you can fit splits into spaces a round cannot be placed. Think about loading 8' rounds into your truck bed. what about the space behind and in front of the wheel wells? what about the space just under the side's lip? I understand that the argument is that you can cram splits into those otherwise unusable spots. SO, in the end, the opposing argument is that the extra volume splits take up can be expanded into those spots that would otherwise be empty voids. My unscientific guess is that if you fill rounds to the top of the bed vs splits to the top of the bed you'd probably get more splits in there, or at least it would be a close call. The second you start talking about putting rails on and stacking wood or rounds above the top of the bed, i'm thinking the rounds start to win out on total amount of wood.

EggsActly! You fully support the argument BrowningBAR originally made when he said "Uncut rounds wouldn’t be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150(?)".

Glad we finally got that out of the way. Now, to put that Fiskars thread to rest...

 

[karri0n]

ok, there are really two arguments here and some wires are crossed.

1. splits take up more volume than rounds (vs. rounds take up more volume)
2. you can fit more wood in a truck split (vs in the round)

I still believe that splits take up more volume than rounds, for the reasons stated by myself and others. I do, however, respect the argument that you can fit splits into spaces a round cannot be placed. Think about loading 8' rounds into your truck bed. what about the space behind and in front of the wheel wells? what about the space just under the side's lip? I understand that the argument is that you can cram splits into those otherwise unusable spots. SO, in the end, the opposing argument is that the extra volume splits take up can be expanded into those spots that would otherwise be empty voids. My unscientific guess is that if you fill rounds to the top of the bed vs splits to the top of the bed you'd probably get more splits in there, or at least it would be a close call. The second you start talking about putting rails on and stacking wood or rounds above the top of the bed, i'm thinking the rounds start to win out on total amount of wood.

EggsActly! You fully support the argument BrowningBAR originally made when he said "Uncut rounds wouldn’t be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150(?)".

Glad we finally got that out of the way. Now, to put that Fiskars thread to rest...

Sorry, you lost me. On the one hand you said splits take up more volume, but now you've said rounds take up more volume(both in a truck).


Can we agree that the math is off if you are considring an 8' bed only holding 1/3 of 1 cord? Gulland's website even says you could fit a cord in there if you stacked splits up to the height of the cab(not that I agree). I still think it's more like 1/2 cord/pickup load of splits.

I don't think it's going to come out to much more, maybe end up paying $120 a cord if you figure 1/2 cord in the case of buying unsplit rounds, but I don't think the labor is worth it.

 

[LLigetfa]

Sorry, you lost me. On the one hand you said splits take up more volume, but now you've said rounds take up more volume(both in a truck).

No, I did not say that. I agreed with both BrowningBAR and Danno77 That you cannot fit more BTUs into a pickup bed in unsplit rounds than you can split. As Danno77 pointed out, there are nooks and crannies that splits can fill that would be air space with large rounds. Again it comes down to the size (and shape) of the container versus the size of the rounds.

 

[Danno77]

As Danno77 pointed out, there are nooks and crannies that splits can fill that would be air space with large rounds. Again it comes down to the size (and shape) of the container versus the size of the rounds.

I'd like to clarify, that I did say that, but i I also said that's the case if you are loading even with the top of the bed. I'd predict that as the loads get closer to cab height the rounds start to win out over splits.

SO, at the end of the day my conversation when buying wood by truckload would be this:

(if truck load of round is cheaper)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "how high do you stack it in the truck?"
seller: "pile it as high as I can get it"
me: "rounds please"

(if truck loads are same cost)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "how high do you stack it in the truck?"
seller: "pile it as high as I can get it"
me: "split please" [labor is worth it to me]

(if truck load of splits costs more)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "neither"

 

[LLigetfa]

(if truck load of round is cheaper)
...
(if truck loads are same cost)
...
(if truck load of splits costs more)

You missed the original scenario, that being rounds cost more than split based on the presumption there are more BTUs in a pickup load of rounds.

 

[iceman]

this is what i meant by people who stack in the truck
this is just one of many ways... but when people do it like this its hard to argue you they shorted you... the second is one who sells truckload for 1.5 when he might have a cord/a tad more.. the people who buy that are the ones that get shorted

 

[Pagey]

this is why I perfectly square all my splits. :lol:

 

[iceman]

and this would be a 3 cord load... when people do it like this there is no room for arguing what you are getting.....
but who knows i guess the only way is to actually do it.... when my delivery guy comes i will take pics then see how much it comes out to

 

[Pagey]

and this would be a 3 cord load... when people do it like this there is no room for arguing what you are getting.....
but who knows i guess the only way is to actually do it.... when my delivery guy comes i will take pics then see how much it comes out to

I call BS. There is no way all that wood will fit in that tiny little trash can. :roll: ;-P

 

[iceman]

and this would be a 3 cord load... when people do it like this there is no room for arguing what you are getting.....
but who knows i guess the only way is to actually do it.... when my delivery guy comes i will take pics then see how much it comes out to

I call BS. There is no way all that wood will fit in that tiny little trash can. :roll: ;-P

NO WAY IT WILL IN ROUNDS!! only if its split!

 

[iceman]

this is what i meant by people who stack in the truck
this is just one of many ways... but when people do it like this its hard to argue you they shorted you... the second is one who sells truckload for 1.5 when he might have a cord/a tad more.. the people who buy that are the ones that get shorted

.. funny thing is the one on the right looks real big.. but its a cord/tad bit more the one on the left is a true 1.5...

 

[karri0n]

with a ballcock no less....

 

[smokinj]

with a ballcock no less....

lol

 

[Pagey]

That's so full of win it hurts.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Man, this is my second thread in a row that cause quite a stir. Completely unintentional.

Anyhow, I passed on this and found someone selling a full cord of rounds for $100 delivered. Which I am happy with.

And the guy down the road that took down 10 acres of trees for a vineyard finally called me back. I think I can get several cords off of him on the cheap. That will easily put me into the 2011 burn pile.

 

[Avitare]

The newbie* has a question:

Did this discussion conclude if a 'cord' of unsplit wood is more or less than the same load when it is split ??

(considering I am new to this forum, I would be amazed if this has not been the "beaten dead... rodent" -- I like horses)
tc