Single vs double wall flue pipe

[BethelStrong]

Plus, that's a pretty short chimney.

It is short. I got cheap and didn’t want spend for more chimney or a guy kit (unless there was an issue). Are you saying shorter means less draft, so doublewall would help there? It’s my first install, and my first stove, so all this is great info for me.

Thanks for the feedback all. I don’t want to highjack the original poster though...




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[bholler]

I’ve been holding back on asking this same question (1st season install). I have doublewall stovepipe, but was considering going to single wall next season. The double stovepipe is one of those adjustable types, I assume just a shield really, and no insulation. I ended up not needing the clearance reduction (or is it gain?). Am I wasting too much heat? My stove heats my house well enough, sometimes too much (when that happens, on comes the furnace circulator to bring cold basement air up or hot air down).

Quadrafire Millennium 3100 EPA
6 feet of Chimney
5 feet of Stivepipe
No temp probe
No stovepipe damper


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Get a probe. How are you running the stove without one

 

[maple1]

It is short. I got cheap and didn’t want spend for more chimney or a guy kit (unless there was an issue). Are you saying shorter means less draft, so doublewall would help there? It’s my first install, and my first stove, so all this is great info for me.

Thanks for the feedback all. I don’t want to highjack the original poster though...




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Generally, yes.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm starting to wonder if getting double wall and a 6" liner would help. If anything my draft should be terrible, but aside from a cold start it creates crazy secondaries. Even when the draft cap is closed completely, it's full heat. I just wish I could turn it down a bit. I mostly do this with smaller loads. Maybe I should try a damper in my single wall. If it's full or nothing, this is fine too, I just use less fuel. I'm not overly worried about it, but from my point of view a 6" liner would be a waste.

 

[BethelStrong]

Get a probe. How are you running the stove without one

Where do I stick it? Through the doublewall? I don’t really know how to run the stove with or without it tbh. Currently I measure the top of the stove with an infrared thermometer. When the temp gets 500-700, I dial the stove down. It’s an EPA stove, so I don’t have much adjustment. I just try to get it to slow down. That’s where I’m at now.


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[bholler]

Where do I stick it? Through the doublewall? I don’t really know how to run the stove with or without it tbh. Currently I measure the top of the stove with an infrared thermometer. When the temp gets 500-700, I dial the stove down. It’s an EPA stove, so I don’t have much adjustment. I just try to get it to slow down. That’s where I’m at now.


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You have plenty of adjustment. You just need to know when to start shutting it back. The stack temps are a much better way to know that. And yes the probe goes through the double wall pipe

 

[bholler]

I'm starting to wonder if getting double wall and a 6" liner would help. If anything my draft should be terrible, but aside from a cold start it creates crazy secondaries. Even when the draft cap is closed completely, it's full heat. I just wish I could turn it down a bit. I mostly do this with smaller loads. Maybe I should try a damper in my single wall. If it's full or nothing, this is fine too, I just use less fuel. I'm not overly worried about it, but from my point of view a 6" liner would be a waste.

I think double wall is un needed in your case. But an insulated liner is.

 

[BethelStrong]

You have plenty of adjustment. You just need to know when to start shutting it back. The stack temps are a much better way to know that. And yes the probe goes through the double wall pipe

Good to know. Well, good to know there is hope, but I still don’t know. So when does one cut back exactly? I’ll grab a probe.


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[bholler]

Good to know. Well, good to know there is hope, but I still don’t know. So when does one cut back exactly? I’ll grab a probe.


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That will vary depending upon fuel and draft.

 

[ShawnLiNY]

Good to know. Well, good to know there is hope, but I still don’t know. So when does one cut back exactly? I’ll grab a probe.


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You’ll learn at what stack temps to start cutting back air as mentioned it depends on stove , type of fuel , how much fuel is used , size of splits etc

 

[bholler]

You’ll learn at what stack temps to start cutting back air as mentioned it depends on stove , type of fuel , how much fuel is used , size of splits etc

Exactly

 

[Gunfixr]

Starting to look like I should have a probe.
I bought a magnetic, it was the last one on the shelf, already opened. Worked once, I guess, got the stove good and hot, it was up around 300-400. Hasn't gone past 200 since.
If I mount a probe, and later go double wall, will I need a different probe?
Is using an infrared the same, more accurate, less accurate?

 

[BethelStrong]

Ok, so it depends, I get that. But what am I looking for to achieve this elusive thing called learn?


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[bholler]

Ok, so it depends, I get that. But what am I looking for to achieve this elusive thing called learn?


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When you get a probe so you can see what the temp is doing you will be able to figure out what works best.
Generally it works to start shutting back about the middle of the normal operating range. But with high draft that may be to late and with low draft it may be to early. You just need to see how your stove with your wood on your chimney responds

 

[bholler]

Starting to look like I should have a probe.
I bought a magnetic, it was the last one on the shelf, already opened. Worked once, I guess, got the stove good and hot, it was up around 300-400. Hasn't gone past 200 since.
If I mount a probe, and later go double wall, will I need a different probe?
Is using an infrared the same, more accurate, less accurate?

If you have single wall a magnetic thermometer is just fine

 

[Gunfixr]

If you have single wall a magnetic thermometer is just fine

OK.
Trying to figure out if I should go double wall. I went single for the heat, but it doesn't look now like that's going to be an issue. The issue is, it's difficult to keep the stove running smoothly with anything less than at least a half full firebox, and at least half open air.
I am running an outside air intake, so it's not supply.
I've read here exhaust temp affects draft, and therefore burn efficiency. That is why I started this thread, might the single wall pipe be reducing my exhaust temp too much.

Just trying to learn. Put in the stove, knew a little, learned more to get it installed correctly, now finding out I knew much less than I thought.

 

[bholler]

OK.
Trying to figure out if I should go double wall. I went single for the heat, but it doesn't look now like that's going to be an issue. The issue is, it's difficult to keep the stove running smoothly with anything less than at least a half full firebox, and at least half open air.
I am running an outside air intake, so it's not supply.
I've read here exhaust temp affects draft, and therefore burn efficiency. That is why I started this thread, might the single wall pipe be reducing my exhaust temp too much.

Just trying to learn. Put in the stove, knew a little, learned more to get it installed correctly, now finding out I knew much less than I thought.

What moisture content is your wood at? How tall and what type chimney do you have. How much connector pipe do u have

 

[BethelStrong]

Just trying to learn. Put in the stove, knew a little, learned more to get it installed correctly, now finding out I knew much less than I thought.

You think only you just found that out? I just found out I don’t know how to start a fire, and I need a computer and a wind tunnel laboratory to figure my stove out


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[SpaceBus]

OK.
Trying to figure out if I should go double wall. I went single for the heat, but it doesn't look now like that's going to be an issue. The issue is, it's difficult to keep the stove running smoothly with anything less than at least a half full firebox, and at least half open air.
I am running an outside air intake, so it's not supply.
I've read here exhaust temp affects draft, and therefore burn efficiency. That is why I started this thread, might the single wall pipe be reducing my exhaust temp too much.

Just trying to learn. Put in the stove, knew a little, learned more to get it installed correctly, now finding out I knew much less than I thought.

Don't feel bad, I've learned a lot too.

 

[Corey]

OK.
Trying to figure out if I should go double wall. I went single for the heat, but it doesn't look now like that's going to be an issue. The issue is, it's difficult to keep the stove running smoothly with anything less than at least a half full firebox, and at least half open air....

What does 'running smoothly' actually mean to you? Actual heat output? Seeing the fire flare up/die down? Changes in stovetop or stack temps? Something different still?

Often times any adjustment to the stove will take 10-15 (or more) minutes to work its way through 'the system'. Even then, it's best to make very small, step-wise adjustments. If you're making adjustments every few minutes, you could actually be creating wide changes in stove output that you're trying to stop. ...PIO - Pilot Induced Oscillations.

 

[ShawnLiNY]

OK.
Trying to figure out if I should go double wall. I went single for the heat, but it doesn't look now like that's going to be an issue. The issue is, it's difficult to keep the stove running smoothly with anything less than at least a half full firebox, and at least half open air.
I am running an outside air intake, so it's not supply.
I've read here exhaust temp affects draft, and therefore burn efficiency. That is why I started this thread, might the single wall pipe be reducing my exhaust temp too much.

Just trying to learn. Put in the stove, knew a little, learned more to get it installed correctly, now finding out I knew much less than I thought.

Gunfixr, before proceeding with any equipment changes aside from a probe thermometer , test the wood for moisture as Bholler suggested . A lot of problems that people post are strictly wood related and have nothing to do with the equipment .modern Stoves ( even some 10-15 yrs old ) have very specific moisture requirements even 2% over recommended can kill a stoves heat output . Get a moisture meter from Lowe’s or harbor freight and test a room temp freshly split piece. If you can’t get a meter immediately do a test load with old pallet wood or compressed bricks/logs if stove produces more heat the moisture content of your wood supply is too high . Split smaller and bring in as much as you can 3-4 days inside can make a huge difference .

 

[Gunfixr]

What moisture content is your wood at? How tall and what type chimney do you have. How much connector pipe do u have

I do not know the moisture content, and don't have a meter. In a few days I will be able to get one.
Chimney is duravent double wall, ending approx 36" above the roof from where it comes through. It has a screened cap. Below that is the chimney box, triple insulated, also duravent. I bought the 24" high box for vaulted ceilings, the guys who installed it said they shortened it quite a bit. There is 6.5 ft of connector pipe. There is a pic of the stove a few posts up. Everything above that is straight vertical.

 

[Gunfixr]

You think only you just found that out? I just found out I don’t know how to start a fire, and I need a computer and a wind tunnel laboratory to figure my stove out


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Well, I guess i'm not that bad off. I can get it lit pretty quickly.

 

[Gunfixr]

What does 'running smoothly' actually mean to you? Actual heat output? Seeing the fire flare up/die down? Changes in stovetop or stack temps? Something different still?

Often times any adjustment to the stove will take 10-15 (or more) minutes to work its way through 'the system'. Even then, it's best to make very small, step-wise adjustments. If you're making adjustments every few minutes, you could actually be creating wide changes in stove output that you're trying to stop. ...PIO - Pilot Induced Oscillations.

Well, maybe i'm expecting the wrong thing, I do know any changes I make take awhile, so change only one thing and wait.
The only way I have to check temps is with a magnetic temp gauge. However, i'm not sure it's working correctly. I had it on the connector pipe, about 18" above the stove.
Running smoothly I suppose is wood inside, with some amount of steady flame coming off it. I'm guessing about half or more of the area? More than just getting going, but not necessarily the whole stove just packed with active flames. Is this correct?
When I say I add a good sized piece and it stops running smoothly, I put in a large piece, or two, and of course the fire will die down if I have active flames, but they either come back a little, or don't come back at all. Changing the air has no effect. Cracking open the door will bring it back, but no matter how hot the stove feels, or how much heat is rolling off it, closing the door will kill it back down. It will go all the way until it just glows red around the edges, and slowly turns to ash, and very little heat coming off the stove. If I put in smaller pieces, this will happen, but cracking open the door will bring it back, and after long enough, I can fully close it.
This is loading onto actively burning pieces, to load on coals, I need about a 2" deep, bright red bed to get anything going, and often will have to crack the door open for awhile.

 

[Gunfixr]

I do have 2 of the eco energy fuel blocks 3pks (6 blocks total).