Screwed by firewood seller

[Bigg_Redd]

Sorry, I don't mean to get quite so worked up... it's just $600 I can't really afford to throw away.

You didn't "throw it away"

You just put it in a CD that is not redeemable till next winter.

 

[krex1010]

Everyone here needs to realize that when it comes to wood burning, we who really care about burning dry, quality wood, we who know what a properly installed woodstove looks like, we who actually enjoy all the work that comes with having quality firewood, we are without doubt the MINORITY. Firewood dealers view us as that grumpy, impossible to please guy who like to complain and bust stones. The majority of people who buy firewood are perfectly happy plunking down there money for short cords of wet wood. So why would we expect a firewood dealer to cater to us? It doesn't happen and never will happen.

 

[gpcollen1]

Bummer for sure. A few years back i was a bit short on wood and had some extra cash so I bought 4 cords, knowing I wouldn't use it all - but the guy had a truck that fit 2 cords and gave 4 cords to me for $700 instead of $800. I asked when it was split and what kind of wood it was - it was split from log length int eh spring and was mixed hardwood at about 25% oak. when it arrived some of it was better than others but it was all burnable - not like your wood. BTW - I have had the experience of getting a load with some fresher oak in it before. That is why I asked the last time...

1 - this experience is the best life lesson ever. No where to go but up from here...

2 - You can split all that wood smaller and use it this year I bet...it will just be a pain in the butt to split and even to burn...but beats NO wood.

3 - You should not give up on scrounging craigslist. I am going back for the second trailer load of standing dead ash today. tree service dropped it but did not cut it up. Total should be about 1.5-2 cords from 2 trees. Split a few pieces yesterday and looks pretty good. I could burn it this year but do not have to. My neighbor is going to burn some...

 

[weatherguy]

[quote author="CTwoodburner" date="1317846903"]Bummer for sure. A few years back i was a bit short on wood and had some extra cash so I bought 4 cords, knowing I wouldn't use it all - but the guy had a truck that fit 2 cords and gave 4 cords to me for $700 instead of $800. I asked when it was split and what kind of wood it was - it was split from log length int eh spring and was mixed hardwood at about 25% oak. when it arrived some of it was better than others but it was all burnable - not like your wood. BTW - I have had the experience of getting a load with some fresher oak in it before. That is why I asked the last time...

1 - this experience is the best life lesson ever. No where to go but up from here...

2 - You can split all that wood smaller and use it this year I bet...it will just be a pain in the butt to split and even to burn...but beats NO wood.

3 - You should not give up on scrounging craigslist. I am going back for the second trailer load of standing dead ash today. tree service dropped it but did not cut it up. Total should be about 1.5-2 cords from 2 trees. Split a few pieces yesterday and looks pretty good. I could burn it this year but do not have to. My neighbor is going to burn some...[/quote]


Was going to post this same thing, if you have access to a truck and you check craigslist a couple times a day you may be able to scrounge up a couple of seasoned cords for cheap or if your lucky, free. I bought 4 cords of seasoned oak last year from a pellet stove convert, he had 10 cords seasoned, 3 cords hickory, 7 oak, I bought 4 oak for $325. If I can make room Im going back for the rest.

 

[spacecowboyIV]

When can kids start helping stack wood? Is 8 weeks old too early?

Stacking wood should come around the 8 month mark. Don't allow splitting until 11 months though, they just don't have the strength until then. Always under supervision of course.
(broken link removed to https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yg9GxL9iNWY/ToyL66Tb8ZI/AAAAAAAAAFc/XTePwlr9yA8/s640/100_2460.JPG)

 

[weatherguy]

When can kids start helping stack wood? Is 8 weeks old too early?

Stacking wood should come around the 8 month mark. Don't allow splitting until 11 months though, they just don't have the strength until then. Always under supervision of course.
(broken link removed to https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yg9GxL9iNWY/ToyL66Tb8ZI/AAAAAAAAAFc/XTePwlr9yA8/s640/100_2460.JPG)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[oldspark]

Cute picture spacecowboy but the least you could do is buy a lighter super splitter.

 

[spacecowboyIV]

Cute picture spacecowboy but the least you could do is buy a lighter super splitter.

Don't be ridiculous that is much to sharp, a kid could really get hurt.

 

[oldspark]

Cute picture spacecowboy but the least you could do is buy a lighter super splitter.

Don't be ridiculous that is much to sharp, a kid could really get hurt.

I did not think of that, good point.

 

[richg]

There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.

 

[IanDad]

I have been buying wood for three years or so. Not once has it ever been anything close to being ready to put in the stove on delivery. My experience is that it is impossible to even find anything close to dry wood. Woodsellers, for the most part, are grossly ignorant about their own product. As above, that's just something you have to accept and act accordingly. My wife does not understand why I am buying/scrounging wood for next year NOW either. Shrug.

 

[krex1010]

There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.

Yes that's expensive, but when I think about how much time and effort I put into each cord of wood by the time it is ready to burn, that's probably what I would want to be paid for it.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Nate, I am the town over from you - I went through my first winter on scrounged split wood (people who didn't burn any more) by advertising on Craigslist and Freecycle. I also used pallets - the Kmart in Acton was okay with me taking the non blue ones, plus pallets from stonemasons (typically oak). We do have suppliers of kiln dried around here and Bio Bricks.

When I drive along 2a and elsewhere, the towers of log length or mounds of splits where no air is getting to the center tell me all I need to know about 'seasoned' wood...

Good luck.

 

[BrotherBart]

It is in the written instructions to my wife that the work I put into that wood means at the estate sale it starts at a grand a cord. Or just let it rot.

 

[Biff_CT2]

I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff. Most of it was from smaller places, but not all. Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.

And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood. Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?

If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little. Calling it anything but green is ridiculous. I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.

Okay now, think about it for a bit. What would be a legal, enforceable definition of "seasoned"? (Clue: there is none.) So, you might drop it.

Were you to specify, say, <20% MC dry-basis, you could act on that, at point-of-sale and afterwards. Otherwise it's all he said/she said: BS.

Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be "green"- it'd be "wet." It's all about water-weight.

"What would be a legal, enforceable definition of "seasoned"? (Clue: there is none.) "

That is exactly wrong, at least in Connecticut.

Connecticut General Statute 43-27(a) defines "seasoned wood" as "any fuel wood which is cut and air dried for at least six months".
http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/connecticut/ct-laws/connecticut_statutes_43-27

FWIW, it's also illegal in CT to sell firewood by the truck load or the face cord.

'Tis best not to piss off Mr. Blumenthal...

 

[maple1]

Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?

 

[Dune]

Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?

Yeah, it means "cut", NOT cut, split and stacked.

 

[maple1]

So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?

 

[smokinj]

So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?

Just depends if you selling or buying? ;-)

 

[billb3]

There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.

Only if their car breaks down in the middle of a blizzard in front of your house and they have no where else to go.


I have 2 cords of 3 year old oak and I probably will use 3/4 cord maybe less if the pine, cherry and maple carry me longer than expected. It's certainly worth a lot more than the $225 " seasoned" oak that is being sold around here, but I doubt I could get more than that for it. After splitting it by hand and watching over it all these years I'm NOT selling it for $225. $675 would be a good starting point offer.
The grocery store gets $8 a cubic foot.
Looks like sterile ash.

 

[Biff_CT2]

Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?

No, "cut" is not defined.

But "'fuel wood' means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, chips or other wood, split or not split, natural or processed, which is advertised, offered for sale or sold as fuel", so I would understand that someone selling "fuel wood" that is "split" and "seasoned split" to have been air dried for at least 6 months - though you could argue otherwise.

It would be interesting to hop on West or Lexus and pull the legislative history. I would expect to find support in the legislative history underlying the statue to support my understanding that seasoned, split fuel wood has been air dried for at least six months.

I also think this is an ancient statute. Apparently the sale of firewood was important enough at one time that the statute provides for each town to appoint two residents as paid officials to monitor firewood seller compliance statute.

"The appointing authority of each town may appoint annually, and more often if necessary, two or more of its inhabitants to be measurers of wood offered for sale within the town, who shall be sworn and shall receive such compensation for their services as the town may prescribe"

... so if you been screwed in Connecticut by being sold unseasoned firewood, you can blame your town government for choosing to not appoint a pair of residents to monitor wood sales. And to think, while we complain about excessive regulation and big government in CT, here's an example where we haven't regulated to extent provided by statute - and we have people complaining about experiencing the very harm the statute was intended to prevent... go figure.

 

[Danno77]

FWIW, it's also illegal in CT to sell firewood by the truck load or the face .

In my experience this is the case in most states. Anybody out there know of a state where it is not the case? It has to be one of the most widely broken laws with regard to selling wood around here. I think that most of the wood sellers around here are honest, but they just are poorly informed. Hardly any of them use the word seasoned, but most all of them sell by the truckload. If I mention to them that selling wood by the truckload is like selling grain by the wagon full they kinda get the jist of what I'm saying, but then they claim that buyers wouldn't know what they are talking about if they said cord. I can't really disagree with that.

 

[smokinj]

FWIW, it's also illegal in CT to sell firewood by the truck load or the face .

In my experience this is the case in most states. Anybody out there know of a state where it is not the case? It has to be one of the most widely broken laws with regard to selling wood around here. I think that most of the wood sellers around here are honest, but they just are poorly informed. Hardly any of them use the word seasoned, but most all of them sell by the truckload. If I mention to them that selling wood by the truckload is like selling grain by the wagon full they kinda get the jist of what I'm saying, but then they claim that buyers wouldn't know what they are talking about if they said cord. I can't really disagree with that.

You can sell one stick if you want to. A measure is what both partys agree to. Now the cofusion always comes from the guy who buys wood for heating. Its never enough.The guy who does it for himself always counts it x3. Tar and Feather season is here! :cheese:

 

[Biff_CT2]

So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?

It depends. If let the log air dry for at least six months and then sell it as a "seasoned" log, then yes. If you let it sit for six months, then buck/split the log, and sell it as "seasoned" splits without allowing the splits to air dry for at least six months, then no.

I understand the statute to mean, if you're selling "seasoned" logs, that the logs have been air dried for at least six months. Likewise, I understand the statute to mean, if you're selling "seasoned" splits, that the splits have been air dried for at least six months. I do not understand it to mean that you can allow a log to air dry for six months, split it, and sell it as "seasoned" split fuel wood.

Reasoning would be that, since "seasoned wood" means any fuel wood which is cut and air dried for at least six months or if sold by weight which is cut and air dried under cover for at least six months, and "fuel wood" means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, chips or other wood, split or not split, natural or processed, which is advertised, offered for sale or sold as fuel, whatever you're selling has seasoned IN THE FORM IT IS SOLD for at least six months.

But there is a bit of ambiguity in the statute, so I'd need to look into it the legislative history and perhaps a bit of the caselaw as necessary.

I'm confident that at some point, some where, someone has tried to justify selling splits from a "seasoned" log as "seasoned" splits - and been told that doing so undermines the intent of the statute. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Danno77]

You can sell one stick if you want to. A measure is what both partys agree to

That's the problem, though. You can do that, but not legally. Most states (that I have seen) say that it has to be measured in Cords. If the buyer ain't mad about it then it just doesn't get reported.