Screwed by firewood seller

[rdust]

It's unfortunate although I'm not surprised. As others have said finding truly seasoned wood this time of year is near impossible or you will pay a hefty premium.

If you can line up some better wood try to get them to pick it up and spend your money elsewhere. If you have to purchase wood and can only keep a seasons worth on hand try to purchase as early in the year as possible.

 

[Hunderliggur]

" If firewood is advertised and sold as "seasoned," it must have a moisture content of less than 50 percent. " - From the Ohio law. I guess I should cut some seasoned wood this winter and ship it to Ohio! The premium for seasoned would cover the shipping ;-)

 

[onetracker]

That's typical of firewood sellers.
Your situation is repeated here many times.
It would be difficult for sellers to store wood for 2 or more years to season it properly to be able to burn it on delivery day.
They'd need acres of space with wood stacked in single or loose double rows. Making it cost even more.
It's one of the things wood-burners have learned, if you want well seasoned wood, season it yourself.
I learned to buy in the off season, spring & summer, I got better prices on "log length" loads then CSS it myself.
It is a bit misleading & we all understand your frustration, "seasoned wood" does not mean it dry enough to burn.

Hopefully you'll find some other supplier with some dry or faster drying wood to get you thru this year.
In 2 years you're going to have some premium fire wood.
Someone may chime in with a source of dry wood, but it's firewood season, the demand this time of the year is high.

Good luck

i don't know how i found this guy about 10 years ago...maybe an ad somewhere...who sold wood to all the wood-fired pizzerias in the area, a big one around here is called cosimos, and they guy had to keep, i dunno, hundreds of cords on hand just for that one customer, who by the way burned all year round. he said they needed their firewood DRY and split kinda small (at the time i had a small-medium firebox). when he delivered it, at something like $175/cord i about choked. bone dry red oak. he said it was stored inside, i'd bet with fans or something helping to dry it out.

OT

 

[NH_Wood]

You know, I have to wonder if these sellers actually know they are selling poor quality wood. It seems that the majority of wood burners I know have just as poor a view of what seasoned wood should be as the sellers that we complain about - I think we might be the few folks that really think about wood quality and why burning dry wood is best. Cheers!

 

[weatherguy]

I think thats the same guy I talked to last April, I asked him when he cut the wood and he said two years ago, then I asked him when he split it and he said last week, I said no thanks. Its on us to ask these questions because seasoned is a vague term.
The guy told me the same thing too, it will be ready this year. I think he burns a smoke dragon and doesnt understand how new stoves work.
I have a guy in my town that has truly seasoned 2+ years wood but he wont deliver to your town. His family owns a lot of land and they have a huge pile of wood.
Theres another place that sells dry wood by the pallet closer to you but it comes to about $300 a cord.

 

[CTYank]

" If firewood is advertised and sold as "seasoned," it must have a moisture content of less than 50 percent. " - From the Ohio law. I guess I should cut some seasoned wood this winter and ship it to Ohio! The premium for seasoned would cover the shipping ;-)

Yeah, that 50% requirement would be really reassuring. Probably wet-basis besides (knocks the #s down some.)

So, it's not totally meaningless, but is totally useless. Maybe it figures into Ohio's ideal about selling by weight.

Anyone figured out yet that maybe 95% of wood-vendors are thieves? Buyers need a vendor-rating system on Angie's.

 

[snowleopard]

Hate to say it, but most of us who have bought can exchange war stories. I don't even try to buy seasoned--just try to get it before the sap rises in the spring, and plan on seasoning it myself. And I STILL got burned on wood (cut too long, and got shorted in one delivery). Trust us, those of us who've been burned don't condone this. The most reputable wood sellers around here flat out recommend the same thing in their ads--it just makes good sense.

A good rule of thumb I've seen here is to just buy one cord from a seller, and make future purchase decisions based on the overall transaction.

 

[begreen]

Bummer Nate, but cheer up. You have a good investment in next year's wood. See if you can find a decent wood seller in your area. But before you accept a load, take a few splits off the pile and check them. Resplit them on the spot and test the fresh wood surface. If it's good, tell them you accept. And if it's wet, tell then to get packing.

Also, you have BioBricks and Hearthwise pressed logs available in your area that can provide clean dry heat guaranteed.

 

[woodchip]

I see it time and time again- people buying wood for this season in August/September- a solution is to buy wood in March/April and get it stacked then. Usually it is the end of the burning season and you can get a decent price. If you get ahead a bit, then you have a rotation of piles to choose from.

I can think of several reasons why this is a good time to buy wood.

1 - a wood dealer may be open to reasonable offers, as few people buy at this time, and the cash may come in handy.

2 - You have all Summer to season the wood a bit.

3 - The wood will probably have been cut through the Winter with the sap down. That gives you a drier wood to start off with.

That's my thoughts for what they're worth

 

[oldspark]

The sap thing does not amount to a hill of beans, time, wind, sun, and single rows are your friend with the type of wood coming into play also for anyone needing a quick fix.

 

[Jack Straw]

Around here people would complain if they sold wood that is too dry. :roll: I cannot discuss my 2 year wood drying with anyone around here. I am the crazy guy who is cutting wood for 2 years from now! You cut it in the spring and burn it in the fall or you cut ash now and burn it this winter (as I am told by my relatives). Someone recently said "I split that willow and got it right into the woodshed so I can start burning it this fall."

 

[Danno77]

This stinks, Nate. Please report back so we know if and how this was resolved.

I know I've said this before, but the word seasoned doesn't mean squat. I usually liken it to meat. If you tell the chef you want your steak "cooked" that doesn't mean squat to him. Cooked for 1 minute on a warm skillet? Cooked on high for two hours until it's crunchy? Both are cooked. Same goes for wood. It's seasoned if it was split a week ago, it's seasoned if it's been lying in log form for a month. It's seasoned if it was CSS four years ago on my property in a windy and sunny location.

A better practice is to always ask specific questions about the wood. When it came down, when it was bucked and when it was split. If they have a MM then even better.

My wood guy splits it from rounds that he usually has lying in a ditch for a few months and then brings it to me. I know it isn't seasoned, but at least I know that going into it. He doesn't know much about seasoning wood, but I do, so it's ok, lol.

 

[wood-fan-atic]

I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff. Most of it was from smaller places, but not all. Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.

And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood. Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?

If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little. Calling it anything but green is ridiculous. I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.

REALLY??!! Someone is selling wood as "seasoned", and it was actually green? NO WAY!! I can't believe it! I WONT believe it!!
But seriously.... I agree with you. It is an outright lie, and when it happened to me once, and I bitched about it here, I,too, was surprised at the responses I got. It seemed to me, also, that folks were condoning the behavior. As it turns out, it is just EXPECTED that wood sellers all lie, and that the only way to have truly dry wood , is to do it yourself. In any other walk of life - if you get ripped off, and tell people about it, you expect them to sympathize with you. In the woodburning community, if you get suckered into buying green wood, the only place you'll find sympathy is in the dictionary ---- right between $h*t and syphallis. Well, Nate, any of us that HAVE actually had this happen to us DO sympathize with you. It sucks. And its not right. And it will continue to happen. :shut:

 

[Nate Finch]

For those asking, I paid $240 a cord. That's a lot more than I paid last year for stuff that was drier, but maybe I just got lucky last year.

I did ask about the wood, but I guess I didn't use the magic word. I asked how long it had been been cut and seasoned, he said 1-2 years. I'm not sure I asked specifically when it had been split, it never occurred to me that anyone would consider unsplit wood "seasoned".

When I called the guy back, he said it was definitely seasoned for two years, and I said "Sorry, but no way this has been split for 2 years" only then did he then say it was split 3-4 months ago.

And yes, I should be seasoning it myself, I know. Last year we'd just moved into the house, this summer we just had our first baby.

Somehow, I'll find the time this fall to split the stuff I have cut on our property so I don't have to go through this again next year... even if the wood isn't perfect next year, it's probably better than anything I could buy. And somehow I'll try to split enough for the year after as well.

When can kids start helping stack wood? Is 8 weeks old too early?

 

[Battenkiller]

Bummer Nate, but cheer up. You have a good investment in next year's wood.

And that's perhaps the wisest response so far.

It ain't gonna go bad by next year, and if you got a good count at a fair price for green wood, you aren't getting screwed anymore than anyone purchasing green wood in the spring at the same price. Disappointed, yes... screwed, no. In the current marketplace, maybe the best way for your money to return a good investment is to buy wood green and sit back and watch it gain in value. Prettier looking than a stock portfolio for sure.

 

[Battenkiller]

For those asking, I paid $240 a cord.

When can kids start helping stack wood? Is 8 weeks old too early?

OK... simultaneous posting. Didn't know what you paid when I posted the above comment.

$240/cord is pretty high for green wood in these parts, so I'd feel kinda screwed myself. What are guys asking for green in your area? I have paid as high as $240 for 4 cord of freshly-cut white ash (at least it was somewhat burnable), but that was the year a local paper mill reopened and was paying the tonnage equivalent of $180/cord for logs. All the bigger wood guys were just bringing logs to the mill rather than c/s/d the stuff for a little more money, leaving the little guys out there gouging us on the firewood. Things have evened out now, and $150/cord is the going fair rate for green.

BTW you can never start 'em too young. All of mine began in utero... with Mom's help, of course.

 

[Chettt]

Nate cross stack and cover it and think about using it next year. If you can afford it, buy two more cords and set those aside for 2013. Start looking for softer wood now that dries quicker, scrap wood from construction sites and maybe a pallet of biobricks. We've all been there and we all learned from it. Congratulations on having a baby.

One other thing, try holding off from burning till December. You really need the stove in January and February. These shoulder months work well with running the furnace once in the morning and once in the evening.

 

[Nate Finch]

FYI I burn about 6-7 cords a year. Luckily the guy's big truck was in the shop, so he could only drop off 2 1/2 at a time, so I had time to check it before he brought the other 4.5.

 

[smokinj]

For those asking, I paid $240 a cord. That's a lot more than I paid last year for stuff that was drier, but maybe I just got lucky last year.

I did ask about the wood, but I guess I didn't use the magic word. I asked how long it had been been cut and seasoned, he said 1-2 years. I'm not sure I asked specifically when it had been split, it never occurred to me that anyone would consider unsplit wood "seasoned".

When I called the guy back, he said it was definitely seasoned for two years, and I said "Sorry, but no way this has been split for 2 years" only then did he then say it was split 3-4 months ago.

And yes, I should be seasoning it myself, I know. Last year we'd just moved into the house, this summer we just had our first baby.

Somehow, I'll find the time this fall to split the stuff I have cut on our property so I don't have to go through this again next year... even if the wood isn't perfect next year, it's probably better than anything I could buy. And somehow I'll try to split enough for the year after as well.

When can kids start helping stack wood? Is 8 weeks old too early?

Well that would depend on the Kid? lol, your on the right track and if its not oak by January that wood could still be ready. Nice Indian summer is here...

 

[Nate Finch]

It's like 95% red oak. Actually really nice wood.... in a year or two

 

[Dune]

Sorry, I don't mean to get quite so worked up... it's just $600 I can't really afford to throw away.

How many cord did you get for $600?

I am guessing two.

 

[ChrisNJ]

You know, I have to wonder if these sellers actually know they are selling poor quality wood. It seems that the majority of wood burners I know have just as poor a view of what seasoned wood should be as the sellers that we complain about - I think we might be the few folks that really think about wood quality and why burning dry wood is best. Cheers!

I agree, everyone I talk to about firewood believes this, my experiences match the popular view on here and that s how I know the majority of sellers and burners who don't frequent this site are wrong, kinda sad actually.

 

[maple1]

The problem is the definition of 'seasoned'. Means one thing to some, another to others. That definition posted earlier (50% mc?) is all the sellers need to back up their case - unfortunately. If something like this did ever get to a judge, I think it would be game over at that point.

That sure seems like a seasoned price to me - ouch for green wood.

Good luck in the wood hunt.

 

[smokinj]

It's like 95% red oak. Actually really nice wood.... in a year or two

Yea, that a tough one.....If I bought wood it would have to be oak free. Darn sure be shifting gears quick and check dealers for Ash, beech.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

So I talk to a guy on craigslist from central Mass that has a pretty good price on firewood. He says it's been seasoning for a couple years, and is mostly oak, so it sounds great, right? He drops it off, and it's raining at the time, so I didn't look too carefully except to make sure it was the right amount, and it was. I go out to stack it yesterday, and notice that it looks really fresh. Not grayed, no checks in the end of the boards... so I whip out my moisture meter and split a piece.... off the charts (my moisture meter goes to 45%). Split a couple more to make sure I'm not crazy... same thing.

So I call the guy up and ask what the deal is... turns out, the wood has been *cut down* for 2 years, but stored log-length and was only split 3-4 months ago.

I was flabbergasted. I tried to tell the guy that wood seasons incredibly slowly at log length, and that what he sold me is basically green wood. There's no way I burn something at 45% moisture rating this year. I'm not sure I could even get it to light.

He said everyone does it that way, and that if I just stack it, it'll be fine in a couple months... which is obviously BS. He offered to have the boss call me back, so I said ok. We'll see what comes of it. Probably nothing. $600 worth of wood I can't burn this year. Fantastic.

If you're looking for firewood in Mass, avoid the guy with the phone number ending in 0596.

-Nate

So. . . . you've been a member here since August of last year and you're just now figuring this out?