Satisfying

[d.sebens]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

My brand new epa stove ran away from me the other day…. Except it was caused by loose door glass not the overfiring secondary air.

During the runaway I only saw 1050 degrees which is still considered safe on an insulated liner when installed correctly Every fire since then has been controllable, in fact I can dampen it down enough with just the air control to smolder wood if it’s not fully up to temp yet.

I have no fears that my house will burn down. I needed to make no modifications to my stove for it to perform to my needs. My stove still has a full warranty and support of the company.

Ps I doing consider tightening up the door glass to be a modification, these stove companies are working so hard to catch up that I’m sure it was just an oops along the line.

 

[xman23]

For you readers of this thread that may not be the overtly cautious type, don't believe anything the OP said is anyway correct or safe to do. Your life and your family's life depends on the decisions you make with a wood stove.

The issue with operating wood stoves safety is, there a lot of variables. The issue with clearances to combustible and heat, they are an exponential function. There is a long term effect of stove heat being applied to the internal combustible wall material. Overtime the internal wall material will char, radically reducing its combustion point. So a stove with less than required clearances, a hot fire, day one doesn't catch the wall on fire. But months or years later, after days of continuous hot burning. In the middle of the night the house burns.

Apologies for my rant, I felt uncomfortable with the OP. Hope it may help some one.

 

[Brassaxe]

Oh YIKERS. Those clearances... House burns down, the insurance isn't gonna pay for anything.

 

[T-roy_]

I hope there are no children living in the OP’s house…

 

[armanidog]

I hope there are no children living in the OP’s house…

There are probably bats in the belfry.

 

[snobuilder]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

 

[Brassaxe]

Must be classified data, wouldn't want that info out hurting the big wood industry.

 

[d.sebens]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

Can you point to this proof you are talking about? You are just making stuff up. Literally everyone telling you that you are wrong has an epa stove. Are we doing it wrong since it DOESN’T overfire on us?

 

[snobuilder]

With all the interest in my innovative set up, I will keep you posted of testing results. The offset will be done and installed next week. This should let the heat roll off and into the room better.
AII clearances are to 16 ga and then 20ga. non combustibles. ZC frame remain cool enough to touch. Hearth will be extended as needed once stove is in new position.

 

[bholler]

With all the interest in my innovative set up, I will keep you posted of testing results. The offset will be done and installed next week. This should let the heat roll off and into the room better.
AII clearances are to 16 ga and then 20ga. non combustibles. ZC frame remain cool enough to touch. Hearth will be extended as needed once stove is in new position.

Clearances to the sheet metal don't matter. Temps of that sheet metal don't matter. What matters is the temp of the wood directly behind that sheet metal.

Do you know what pyrolysis is??

 

[snobuilder]

Can you point to this proof you are talking about? You are just making stuff up. Literally everyone telling you that you are wrong has an epa stove. Are we doing it wrong since it DOESN’T overfire on us?

Only all of the existing post on this website refering to overfires or in other words "scary hot" fires that can't simply be snuffed out by closing the air intake as on older stoves that only had a single air intake.

 

[bholler]

Only all of the existing post on this website refering to overfires or in other words "scary hot" fires that can't simply be snuffed out by closing the air intake as on older stoves that only had a single air intake.

And how many of them were resolved by proper operation or some tweaks to the install?

Again this is a site where people come to gets answers to problems. This really isn't that common of an issue honestly.

 

[snobuilder]

Clearances to the sheet metal don't matter. Temps of that sheet metal don't matter. What matters is the temp of the wood directly behind that sheet metal.

Do you know what pyrolysis is??

I sure do. Heat and drying out of wood causes pyrolysis. What you are saying is that even though the ZC framework is cool enough to touch and at least as cool as when it was used as a ZC fireplace I will definitely have pyrolysis and burn my house down.
If that is true then I have improved my chances of not having pyrolysis by not using the old ZC fireplace.

 

[bholler]

I sure do. Heat and drying out of wood causes pyrolysis. What you are saying is that even though the ZC framework is cool enough to touch and at least as cool as when it was used as a ZC fireplace I will definitely have pyrolysis and burn my house down.
If that is true then I have improved my chances of not having pyrolysis by not using the old ZC fireplace.

How were you monitoring the temps of that outer most skin when it was a fireplace? The inner wall temps don't matter that is being cooled by convection but heat still gets through.

 

[jalmondale]

I sure do. Heat and drying out of wood causes pyrolysis. What you are saying is that even though the ZC framework is cool enough to touch and at least as cool as when it was used as a ZC fireplace I will definitely have pyrolysis and burn my house down.
If that is true then I have improved my chances of not having pyrolysis by not using the old ZC fireplace.

Pyrolysis can start happening at 117F, which is cool enough to touch (for reference, hot stone massage typically uses stones heated to 120F, although granted 'cool enough to touch' is different for different materials). An actual temperature reading would be a good idea if you're YOLOing your clearances, and continuous temperature monitoring or a thermocouple installed behind the metal would be necessary to have bounds on the temperatures of the wall (as bholler points out, it's not as simple as spot-checking the temps on the metal - you could have a setup with lower average surface temps on the metal than with the ZC fireplace, but where the wood behind the metal is hotter than it was with the ZC, due to temperature swings combined with different thermal conductivity numbers between metal and wood).

I'd be more worried about the temp readings of your hearth, though, as that seems the more blatantly out-of-spec part of the installation, and likely to get worse if you pull the stove closer to the wood floor.

 

[stoveliker]

If you are adding that offset, you can likely change the height of the stove w/o issues. So I'd see how you can (significantly) increase the R-value of your hearth - and make it work with the pipe by designing that offset in a way to compensate for that thicker hearth.

Not that that resolves the issue, because you don't know anymore what R-value is safe as you changed the bottom of the stove. But it would at least be less unsafe than this is now.

 

[begreen]

Pyrolysis can start happening at 117F, which is cool enough to touch

I have read closer to 170º over an extended period of time. 117º is cooler than some forced air heating system ductwork gets. And a lot of walls near woodstoves get warmer than that temp.

 

[Brassaxe]

Only all of the existing post on this website refering to overfires or in other words "scary hot" fires that can't simply be snuffed out by closing the air intake as on older stoves that only had a single air intake.

Of the "Scary Hot" stories on this site -
8 are in regards to an EPA stove.

4 of those are admitted operator error.
3 are air leaks/bad gaskets.
1 is an unknown cause.

I can find no evidence supporting your claims.

 

[begreen]

I'm sure there are hundreds on the site, though over the years they have dropped off to 5-10 a year. Hopefully this is due to better research on the homeowner's part and better guidance here. Part of the reports for first time EPA stove burners are not due to the stove being an EPA stove, but because the stove has a window as opposed to an old steel door that occasionally glowed when the stove was really hot.

 

[john26]

I don't understand the logic of the OP, if EPA stoves are so dangerous to the point they need to be modified to operate safely and pre EPA stoves are safier and superior in all ways why continue to burn the EPA stove? Especially when pre EPA stoves are a dime a dozen used .

 

[snobuilder]

I don't understand the logic of the OP, if EPA stoves are so dangerous to the point they need to be modified to operate safely and pre EPA stoves are safier and superior in all ways why continue to burn the EPA stove? Especially when pre EPA stoves are a dime a dozen used .

I can make this stove work the way I want it to. Stoves are simple and I doubt even the Gov. can totally FUBAR something so basic. They tried with gas cans . Aftermarket addressed that FUBAR. too bad it costs extra to fix it though.
I am currently looking for a Wonderwood Circulator or similar Ashley in good shape.

 

[john26]

I am currently looking for a Wonderwood Circulator or similar Ashley in good shape.

Newer ones are thin metal low quality the older King brand and Warm Morning by Locke were better quality but those are 40 plus years old. You might consider a pre EPA Englander furnace I would swap my Ashley furnace for an Englander EPA model if I run across a deal.

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[snobuilder]

How are looking out for your safety or expecting you to back up your claims that all modern stoves are uncontroable death traps negative attacks?

LOL just saw this....in red..... your words not mine. I never called them death traps . That is more your style. LOL

 

[d.sebens]

This thread isn’t even fun to read any more. I ran out of popcorn and the troll is being fed plenty. I vote for closing the thread.

 

[snobuilder]

This thread isn’t even fun to read any more. I ran out of popcorn and the troll is being fed plenty. I vote for closing the thread.

Censorship is the tool of tyrants.