Rebuilt the Defiant.

[kybishop]

While in the middle of major home renovations I noticed the old Vermont Casting Defiant developed a crack in the fireback. I haulted work on the house and focused on the stove.

In the process of replacing the fireback I ended up breaking the whole thing down, cleaning it all up, putting it back together with the Rutland high temp cement (in the right spots) and finishing it off with a coat of Rutland stove polish.

The gaskets on the front doors were still in great shape. The side door gasket was bad and installed a new one.

Need to do about 8-10 break in fires. Fired it up today and she did great. Glad to have her back.

 

[kybishop]

The stove before the rebuild. The crack is to the left of the '1975' on the fireback.

 

[peakbagger]

Looks nice. I don't know if I would have polished it as it will tend to smoke more when you fire it. By the before picture my assumption is that it was either a later model with the two piece fireback or had already been converted? I did the conversion on mine at one point and used it enough that I had to replace the top section of the fireback. I still have it but my wood boiler has pretty well replaced it.

 

[kybishop]

Thanks, appreciate it.

I didn't notice any smoke at all when I fired it up the first time (yesterday). I put a pretty thin coat on and it dried overnight. It may as I reach higher temps. Haven't had it real hot yet, breaking it all back in.

My dad bought the stove new back in the 70's, not too long after they started making them. It had the one piece fireback when he got it. He replaced it with the two piece when VC offered to update them. They helped out with the replacement costs somehow. I know the one piece had cracked as well.

Since he had already converted it I only needed to buy the replacement fireback kit. The bottom section had started to crack slightly as well. I think it had a bit to do with some ash buildup at the bottom of the fireback (and lots of use). This would be the second time we have replaced it in the 40+ years we have had it. We use the stove full time through the winters. It is heating a large open space, high ceilings.

 

[kybishop]

We run this stove at 300 degrees on the pipe temperature gauge we use. Never tested the stove top griddle temps but this is what runs clean for us. The gauge is about eye level on the pipe, ~6' up from floor.

It is a big space to heat. About 5,000 sf of house to heat, it is not the only heat source. The room it is in has a 24' ceiling at the peak and is lofted and open to the majority of the rest of the house. It is in a 1970's addition that was added on to a stone house built around 1810.

Some pictures of where the stove sits and the pipe during renovations. One taken from the third floor attic loft. Pipe is heavy gauge 8" and straight up and out 24'. We get some additional heating from the pipe. Double walled stainless pipe through the roof.

 

[peakbagger]

Sounds like the Defiant is a perfect stove for you.

Some trivia on the Defiant history is that the design was developed out of a bet. There was a "commune" of architects that were skibums in the Mad River Valley of Vermont. They and their fellow hangers on built some very impractical architectural wonders to live in and they heated them with barrel stoves. They were sick of cutting and burning so much wood so they had competition to design the best stove. There were three designs; what ultimately become the Defiant, The Vermont Elm which is basically an improved barrel stove http://vermontironstove.com/ and one more that apparently was impossible to build. They were used to heating large poorly insulated spaces so they built the stoves big. There were a lot of large old farmhouses in VT also with poor insulation at the time so they built what worked for them. There was a fuel shock going on so they had a pretty long backlog and they became quite trendy with the dealers really gouging folks. After things calmed down a bit they eventually came up with the smaller models that were far better suited to smaller tighter stoves.

There are newer designs out there but the Defiant is hard to beat for heating a big space as long as the owner is wiling to clean out the ash that inevitably build up behind the fireback. I see folks complain about back puffing with them frequently but normally it comes down to that the stove is way oversized for the house.

 

[kybishop]

That is some very interesting stuff. Thanks for that bit of trivia.

When dad first got the stove they used to have picnics and get togethers for all the VC stove owners. They put out a regular news letter and kept up with everyone. He bought it at Eastwood Stove Company outside of Louisville Kentucky. He was told that the first stoves they made were from melting down old engine blocks.

 

[SpaceBus]

Did you happen to take photos during your rebuild? I'm faced with the cracked fire back issue, but hoping I can ride out the winter and fix it in the spring

 

[peakbagger]

There is manual that comes with the parts which is very detailed with illustrations. It was written for homeowner to DIY. the fix. No real need for photos. The biggest PITA is getting the old furnace cement out of the joints. I used a hand scarper a hand grinder with a wire brush head I bought at a welding supply store and a HEPA dust mask. Its dirty job and you need to do it outdoors.

I had to convert mine from the one piece to a two piece the first time around and it took me about 6 hours. I did the lower half several years later (after some hard burning) and it took me less.

 

[SpaceBus]

Thanks for the heads up on the respirator. Luckily I have a previous generation military protective mask (as in pre 2015) that should do the trick. I'm a little let down that I'll have to take it outside, so let's hope the Fireback doesn't collapse before spring, it's cold in downeast Maine!

 

[SpaceBus]

This is possibly a stupid question, but should there be a bottom grate in the fire box? The previous owners of the house we just bought didn't take care of anything

 

[peakbagger]

No grate on a Defiant. The bottom casting is ribbed and is intended to be filled with sand before firing. As the stove is used ash has to be scraped forward and shoveled out so that the air ports are kept exposed. Some folks dont pay attention and let ashes pile up at the opening to the secondary air chamber on the right side of the firebox.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes, I think the previous user let it fill with ash and that's what cracked the Fireback.

I've spent the last three days learning how it likes to run. Any advice when trying to run a full load? I just tried to put about six splits on a nice bed of coals and turn down the thermostat. It started huffing, so I opened the thermostat back up and let it burn to avoid filling the house with smoke. Our house is a 1,300 Sq ft salt box, so I had to open a window to avoid baking.

I know it seems like an overkill stove, and it is, but it's what's here and I can't afford a new stove. This is the best stove I've ever encountered, so I'd rather get to know it better and become more proficient in operating it than get something different anyway.

 

[peakbagger]

The two piece firebacks reportedly failed due to lack of cleaning behind the fireback. In order to get to this area to clean it you need to go in via the damper and open up an access plate. There is member on Hearth that is VC expert that usually pops up by now. I think the firebacks are just wear components.

The huffing is a known issue with defiant's you really cant fill them full and crank down the air damper. You need to limit your fuel load. Some folks put a heavy cast iron pot on the cooking surface to keep it from lifting up from a puff.

 

[fbelec]

i had a steam dragon and a old coffee pot full of water and it blew the plate and 2 water steamers up and the fell down into the stove full of coals one night. if your cooktop is not bolted down do it. nothing worse than getting woke out of a sleep and see flame coming out of the hole for the cooktop. i load mine to the top from the side door all the time if ytour running the stove about 600 to 650 you shouldn't have a backfire. just make sure the stove is running 45 minutes to a hour before flipping it into horizontal mode and you should be good to go. it needs time to warm the hole stove body

 

[peakbagger]

I agree that when you load it let it run hot for awhile before messing with the air damper unless you open it up a bit. If the stove is hot and there is a bed of coals, when fresh wood is added the wood will really crank out the volatile gases which are the cause of puffback, Once they have escaped, the generation of the gases drops down and the stoves tendency to puff back will reduce. The normal problem with Defiants are they were built to heat poorly insulated homes in cold climates, for the vast majority of homes they are just too darn large. That is why they came out with the Resolute and Intrepid. Great for the middle of the winter but a PITA in shoulder season. The colder it gets the easier it will be to run.In the meantime reduce the amount of wood you feed it and give up on long overnight burns. If you leave the ash a bit deeper, you usually can find some coals to refire it in the morning.

 

[SpaceBus]

I've gotten used to running small loads, three to five splits, after it's gotten hot. I do run damper open for the first hour and I've gotten some coals built up. This morning I loaded up six splits alternating directions diagonally, and then loaded it to the damper with kindling and newspaper. This worked great and I've managed to maintain 72-ish degrees in the whole house with just adding a few splits in at a time. So far I've yet to wake up to coals worth anything l, but I've been trying different things to figure out how the stove likes to operate. This evening I plan on stoking it up to 550-600 griddle temp and throwing three to four splits in before bed. I found having the thermometer on the stove pipe to be less helpful after the stove is up to temp. I have a fantastic chimney with great draft when cold, so even when the stove pipe thermometer reads in the "too cool" range, the stove still heats up quickly when I open up the primary.

 

[kybishop]

I have not been on here in a bit...

I did not take many pictures during the rebuild. But like others said, the kit came with some great instructions and illustrations.

One thing that can be a bit tricky and is pretty important for air flow is getting the air tube behind the fireback assembled correctly and clear of cement. It is at the bottom of the lower fireback where it meets the bottom and back of the stove. The kit comes with a screen and you fold the screen and apply cement when you place the pieces together. You then slide a small piece of wood through it from the end to smooth out any cement that gets pressed up. Not real difficult but definitely have to take some extra care here.

I don't have much issue with any puffing. Maybe happened a couple times since rebuild. I start the fire with the damper open and we always leave a front or side door cracked open while getting the stove up to temp. I start with a small stack of kindling and keep the fire small for the first bit. I close the damper pretty soon and bring it up to temp relatively slowly. Ours tends to puff when the stove has reached temp too quick and the upper stove pipe is still not warmed up to temp and is not drawing fast enough just yet. It is rare for it to puff back. Our pipe has not bends or elbows. Straight up out the roof.

You can take a temp gun and shoot the different areas of the stove and pipe. It is pretty interesting and fun to do. You can find the hot spots on the stove. The hottest spots tend to be in the area on the fireback where they crack. The right side of the stove where it draws back and around. Front middle of the front doors and of course the griddle.

A few of the only pictures I have during the rebuild.

 

[SpaceBus]

Thank you for the advice and photos. This morning I started from a cold stove with 2/3 load with six splits and a bunch of kindling on top and lit it from the top. I left the damper open too long and my griddle went up to to 800! I then closed the damper and closed down the primary and secondary airflow pretty low, just a tiny bit open. The stove is just now down to a nice bed of coals and I can keep the temp around 450-500 for the rest of the day. I still haven't figured out how to wake up to any hot coals. Last night the thermostat opened up more than I thought it would and I was left with half a charred split, which isn't necessarily bad I think. I do plan on getting an IR thermometer soon, and I think it will help me maintain throughout the day when I'm home. I'm medically retired, and work is scarce here in the winter anyways, so I'm waiting until January to start school. hopefully I figure out how to keep a steady burn with a full load before then so my pets don't freeze.

 

[peakbagger]

The colder it gets the easier it is to run. Not many folks ever complain about freezing with a Defiant. As long as you have the wood it cranks out the heat. I remember before I got my boiler and heated with the Defiant that shorts and T shirts was winter time clothing if I didn't watch out. The stove passes a lot more heat into the chimney then my boiler and that meant that with a center chimney that I had a warm chimney radiating heat for hours after the stove was out.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yeah, I've accidentally run the stove into Temps that made we sweat in shorts. Thankfully my chimney runs into my bed room, so even in the coldest months in Downeast Maine we shouldn't ever be cold. This stove has been one of the best things about the house. It will even accommodate cooking if the power goes out. I plan on keeping my classic defiant running until I die.

Do you know if there are any warming racks or something like that for the old defiant? I'm sure they are long out of production, if they ever made any, but maybe I could find some old ones.

 

[SpaceBus]

Also, what kind of accessories were offered? Does anyone still have any kicking around?

 

[kybishop]

We usually have coals the next morning. For loading it for the night or leaving for the day we try to put in the largest best burning wood we have. Like as big as you can fit through the side door. A few larger pieces will burn a lot longer than a lot of small ones.

I hardly ever touch the thermostat. Once I get it set to where I like to burn it I leave it and let it work. Only if I get a run away fire do I shut it down. I think we had one flu fire many years ago. Those are no fun...

I don't have any real good wood at the moment. Best I have is some Cherry but it is still a tad on the green side, not fully seasoned.

 

[kybishop]

We don't have a lot of accessories. We do have the original firescreen and the original ash shovel that came with it.

Not sure we have anything else as far as from Vermont Castings.

 

[SpaceBus]

Thankfully we do still have the original ash screen for our stove. We do like to run it in fireplace mode, but I reckon it's pretty inefficient operating like that.

Unfortunately all of my firewood is 4" splits and under. I do have a large stack of mostly rounds from leaning trees, most between 2 - 8" across. I just split up a dying birch that was leaning into the yard. That was probably two days worth of hard wood, which is nice. We have about 3-4 cords of spruce the previous owners left. Who knows how old it is, but it burns well. We'll be playing catch up for a while on our wood stacks, but we are hoping to buy a few cords of seasoned hard wood if we can find it.

It's been snowing a lot unfortunately, and my wood stack got covered in snow. Nothing my 500,000 btu propane torch couldn't solve!