Ready to Join The Gang - Time For a Wood Stove!

[begreen]

I was introduced to a fellow once on a visit to his house. When invited in I saw he had a Lopi Liberty heating the house. On top were about 6 thick splits of damp doug fir that he was drying out for the next reload. Needless to say I was more than a little shocked. It may be true that the large mass of wood is not going to ignite in a few hours that it sat on the stove, but the small debris that falls off of these splits can dry out and ignite much more quickly. He got the message, but still limped through that first winter in the PacNW this way. I'm glad to say he survived and the next spring he had made a wood shed and was stocking it up.

 

[bholler]

That link says less than 250C for years, I'm talking about 2-4 hours on maple cut with green leaves on it.
Baking wood is actually an old idea from back when you had to have a wood pile as big as the house to make it through the winter... hard to get ahead that way and keep the farm.

Yes we know it can be done but that does not mean it should be done. You can run single wall stove pipe up through your house to it was done for years that way but that does not make it safe.

 

[Log Splitter]

Hello all. Now that I've gotten some good use out of the stove, I'll point out some things I've noticed and questions I have.

Specific to the PE Summit
- This is a massive stove. Being able to load E/W and N/S is a huge plus. Having purchased some wood, with some of it being very poorly sized, I can get even the longest of pieces in by going corner to corner.
- The lip in front of the stove is convenient in catching the few embers that try to escape.
- The fan can get quite loud, especially when it gets the stove rattling a bit up against the face plate.
- If I pack the stove about 80% I can get about a 7-8 hour burn down to a bed of coals. The temperature tapers off pretty quickly when air flow is restricted, but it stays hot enough to do the job.

General Wood Burning
- Properly seasoned wood makes a world of difference. It lasts longer, gets hotter quicker, and gets hotter overall.
- For milder temps during the day, I find the most efficient thing to do is add 1-2 pieces every few hours. It keeps the fire going, but doesn't heat too much. Not sure if this is the best, but works for my needs.

Questions.
1. Any suggestions on longer burn time? I find my best/longest burns start with the hot bed of coals, and then immediately filling the stove with the seasoned wood I have. Maybe I need some harder woods?
2. How often do 24/7 burning users clean their liner? I know "it depends", so what should I look for when checking out the liner? What's too much creosote?
3. When using 24/7, what's the best way to clean out ashes?

 

[begreen]

The blower should not be too loud, find the rattle and isolate. There is probably metal to metal contact that shouldn't be happening. Get dealer help if necessary. We have no rattle on our stove (Alderlea) even with the fan on high, but I almost never take it above medium speed and it's quite reasonable at that level. You might try running the stove for a few burn cycles with the blower off to see how that affects burn time. Dry wood and thick splits also help a lot. Pack it full to within an inch or two of the baffle and fill the gaps with smaller splits. Maybe try a load loaded E/W to see if that improves burntime. I don't always get it perfect but for us 8-10 hrs is average. When I get it perfect 12 hrs happens.

Our flue stays remarkably clean burning mostly doug fir. Burning dry wood with a straight up chimney helps this. I clean out ashes as infrequently as possible. One of the benefits of burning doug fir is that it is exceptionally low ash producing. When I do clean out ash I move the coals to one side as best possible then shovel out the ash side. Then I reverse the process and to the other side. Then I move the coals to the front and reload.

 

[Log Splitter]

The blower should not be too loud, find the rattle and isolate. There is probably metal to metal contact that shouldn't be happening. Get dealer help if necessary. We have no rattle on our stove (Alderlea) even with the fan on high, but I almost never take it above medium speed and it's quite reasonable at that level. You might try running the stove for a few burn cycles with the blower off to see how that affects burn time. Dry wood and thick splits also help a lot. Pack it full to within an inch or two of the baffle and fill the gaps with smaller splits. Maybe try a load loaded E/W to see if that improves burntime. I don't always get it perfect but for us 8-10 hrs is average. When I get it perfect 12 hrs happens.

Our flue stays remarkably clean burning mostly doug fir. Burning dry wood with a straight up chimney helps this. I clean out ashes as infrequently as possible. One of the benefits of burning doug fir is that it is exceptionally low ash producing. When I do clean out ash I move the coals to one side as best possible then shovel out the ash side. Then I reverse the process and to the other side. Then I move the coals to the front and reload.

I've tried everything to eliminate the rattle. At first I thought it was the face plate up against the uneven masonry. Some parts touch it, but there are tiny gaps on other parts since the masonry isn't flat. But that wasn't it. Then it seemed like it was coming from where the stove contacts the front of the face plate. So I tried to move the stove around a few centimeters where possible. It has quieted down since. Occasionally I'll hear it and it'll be in an intermittent pattern, almost like a roaring sound that's getting closer, than further. Hard to explain. I have found that I'm almost always able to eliminated the sound by placing downward pressure on the top of the stove...

As for the increased burn time suggestion, you think running the fan my shorten the burn time? Unfortunately, without the blower on, there's no hope to heat the far bedrooms. It does a good job with the fan on, but without it, it barely seems to heat the immediate room!

 

[begreen]

To eliminate the surround as the source maybe try running the stove for a day or two with it off? If that doesn't work it could be the joint where the front casing meets the bay top. Or where the front casing joins the rear casing. But at that point I would be calling the dealer.

 

[Log Splitter]

And what about the fan being the cause of slower burn times? Is that something you've noticed yourself?

 

[begreen]

We don't run the blower much unless it's pretty cold, so I am not a good judge. Others have reported is affecting their burn times, perhaps because they need to open the air up more to maintain stove temperature?

 

[Squisher]

I am burning mainly doug fir too and am seeing similar burn times to Begreen for my overnight loads. I pack big splits and pack it tight with smaller splits as full as I can get it usually for my overnight burn. The more wood the merrier. Usually it's eight hours until I load again in the morning.

 

[bcrtops]

You all with the large fire boxes aren't getting longer burn times than I do with the smaller, mid-sized, unit.
I hardly ever load our stove full, & typically have enough coals in the morning to get a fire going w/o a restart.
Try logs, instead of splits, if you have them -- they burn longer (my manual even states this).

Currently burning a mix of hemlock, douglas fir, & true fir(s). 3-- 4" logs stacked in a triangle kept the fire going 10 hrs. last night. That is like 1/2 a full load in my stove. Maple splits or logs work great when I have them. Alder never holds a fire overnight, unless you have a real "snarly" piece or two. We do a lot of burning like the OP, using 2 or 3 small pieces to keep the fire going &/or building the fire up, then adding wood when it is down to just enough coals to get it going again (cycling). We even do quick short burns on chilly days in the summer. Clean the stack 1x/yr. ~cup from the flue & ~cup laying on top the baffle -- all brown powder. (Free standing stove, no blower, corner of room, w/short 12-13' stack).

 

[Squisher]

IVe heard very good things about the smaller firebox as far as burn times. I have a super size insert to install in my fireplace that I can hardly wait to try out.

 

[Ashful]

You all with the large fire boxes aren't getting longer burn times than I do with the smaller, mid-sized, unit.
I hardly ever load our stove full, & typically have enough coals in the morning to get a fire going w/o a restart.

I also load my stove at dinner time, and also have enough coals left in the morning for an easy reload... but since it's a Blaze King, I'm referring to the morning 36 hours later.

 

[Squisher]

You all with the large fire boxes aren't getting longer burn times than I do with the smaller, mid-sized, unit.
I hardly ever load our stove full, & typically have enough coals in the morning to get a fire going w/o a restart.
Try logs, instead of splits, if you have them -- they burn longer (my manual even states this).

Currently burning a mix of hemlock, douglas fir, & true fir(s). 3-- 4" logs stacked in a triangle kept the fire going 10 hrs. last night. That is like 1/2 a full load in my stove. Maple splits or logs work great when I have them. Alder never holds a fire overnight, unless you have a real "snarly" piece or two. We do a lot of burning like the OP, using 2 or 3 small pieces to keep the fire going &/or building the fire up, then adding wood when it is down to just enough coals to get it going again (cycling). We even do quick short burns on chilly days in the summer. Clean the stack 1x/yr. ~cup from the flue & ~cup laying on top the baffle -- all brown powder. (Free standing stove, no blower, corner of room, w/short 12-13' stack).

I have family with a super 27 so I'm pretty familiar with the different PE sized fireboxes and their associated burn times. Not to mention I've serviced probably close to 50 different PE appliances this year. They are most certainly the number one brand of stove in my area.

Burn times are highly subjective, sounds like you've got things figured out well. But if I wanted to truly extend my reload times out further I'm sure I could. There is no replacement for displacement when you're comparing appliances that utilize the exact same technology.

 

[bcrtops]

I also load my stove at dinner time, and also have enough coals left in the morning for an easy reload... but since it's a Blaze King, I'm referring to the morning 36 hours later.

Hearth.com needs a dedicated sub-forum for you cat-lovers & make you play in your own house! Hey.....there is a long BK thread going for you already!
Cat stoves have such a horrendous reputation in my locale that I know of absolutely no one that would even consider installing one.

A little sarcasm & jest keeps things fun..............but it can get a little old after a while. I think the cat technology is neat to look at & I am glad that it has people committed to it, as, eventually the particulate standard may require everyone to have a cat or hybrid type stove. For the time being, we want a stove that will last 20-30 yrs. (rest of my life), relatively maintenance free, super - easy to clean, & most of all -- easy for others in the household to run without having to follow some horrendous complicated flow-chart. (The PE line of stoves is one of the mechanically most simple stoves on the market & it buys me and others a lot of creed -- we usually don't go around rubbing others noses in the fact of how easy they are to clean though).

 

[bcrtops]

I have family with a super 27 so I'm pretty familiar with the different PE sized fireboxes and their associated burn times. Not to mention I've serviced probably close to 50 different PE appliances this year. They are most certainly the number one brand of stove in my area.

Burn times are highly subjective, sounds like you've got things figured out well. But if I wanted to truly extend my reload times out further I'm sure I could. There is no replacement for displacement when you're comparing appliances that utilize the exact same technology.

You are correct -- very subjective. I just thought those bigger stoves would burn longer -- definitely not dissing the stoves.
My secret to long burns is simple. I pick out the heaviest, dense (most growth rings/inch) wood I can find in the pile-- logs if I have them. I never pack it "tight" & almost never fill the box up & still get some good overnight burns. I will use a piece of hardwood when I have some (Ash, wild cherry, or maple) & they tend to hold coals longer than even dense "fir" types.

 

[Squisher]

Sounds similar to what I do. I too am always eyeing up those real dense chunks for the overnight load. I'd say the one thing I do differently though is I load my box right up full, espescially when we're hitting overnight lows into the freezing range. I look at it as more wood is more potential btus that I can either extract quickly or spread them out longer.

My definition of a successful overnight burn is one that I can load a full load of full size splits on what's left in the morning and have it light off and get up to temp in a timely fashion. Species makes such a difference, I ran some Norway maple through last winter that once coaled up would seem to last in definetly. I prefer Douglas fir though just for the almost complete lack of ash.

I burn three to four loads a day. One in the morning, one after work and one at night. In colder times I'll up my demand on the after work load and run a extra load between then and the bedtime load. Usually has to be a smaller load though otherwise I won't have the fire ready for the overnight load.

 

[bcrtops]

Sounds similar to what I do. I too am always eyeing up those real dense chunks for the overnight load. I'd say the one thing I do differently though is I load my box right up full, espescially when we're hitting overnight lows into the freezing range. I look at it as more wood is more potential btus that I can either extract quickly or spread them out longer.

My definition of a successful overnight burn is one that I can load a full load of full size splits on what's left in the morning and have it light off and get up to temp in a timely fashion. Species makes such a difference, I ran some Norway maple through last winter that once coaled up would seem to last in definetly. I prefer Douglas fir though just for the almost complete lack of ash.

I burn three to four loads a day. One in the morning, one after work and one at night. In colder times I'll up my demand on the after work load and run a extra load between then and the bedtime load. Usually has to be a smaller load though otherwise I won't have the fire ready for the overnight load.

Right on..........successful overnight burn = not having to use any kindling to get it going good the next morning.
Being we're retired, we tend to burn smaller fires during the day & feed the stove more frequently -- letting it burn hotter & faster when temps @ or below freezing. When we leave during the day, I like to put a single "smolder" log on.........to make a little smoke = looks like we're home fire. Then, burn a hot fire when getting back to burn out any creosote it may have made.

(Hoping not to hi-jack this thread too badly!)

 

[Squisher]

Sounds like that t-5 is working really well for you. I just cleaned one the other day for people who had just purchased a new house. They had no idea about stoves , only had burned in a open masonry fireplace previously. So they 'lucked' into a mint t-5 with double wall straight up to class a straight through the roof for about 15' total.

Do you monitor your flue or stove temps at all? Myself I find my thermometers to be very handy in hitting the types of burns I'm looking for. But I also have to load and run quite a bit. Or monitor it from a different floor while I'm doing something else.

Sounds like from the amount/type of soot you're finding you've got it burning quite cleanly. I see from your sig you upgraded in 2008. I'm on my second year with my summit and am still in the honeymoon phase about how much more efficient this stove is than the previous smoke dragon (old lakewood in my shop now).

 

[bcrtops]

Sounds like that t-5 is working really well for you. I just cleaned one the other day for people who had just purchased a new house. They had no idea about stoves , only had burned in a open masonry fireplace previously. So they 'lucked' into a mint t-5 with double wall straight up to class a straight through the roof for about 15' total.

Do you monitor your flue or stove temps at all? Myself I find my thermometers to be very handy in hitting the types of burns I'm looking for. But I also have to load and run quite a bit. Or monitor it from a different floor while I'm doing something else.

Sounds like from the amount/type of soot you're finding you've got it burning quite cleanly. I see from your sig you upgraded in 2008. I'm on my second year with my summit and am still in the honeymoon phase about how much more efficient this stove is than the previous smoke dragon (old lakewood in my shop now).

I installed a dbl. wall stovepipe to the class A just for efficiency, not for clearance reasons. I do have a chimney therm sitting on top the stove, on the dbl. wall stove pipe -- mostly for the wife. We don't really monitor it much by temp -- it usually runs 300-400F there when a good fire is burning. I have only hit 500F there when burning a load of alder (that would have made the stovetop (under the wing-outs) around 750F -- we don't like it that hot. We burn ~5 cords/yr with it which includes some summer quickie fires. The old Fisher would be using ~6-8 cords for the same heat output. (Plus 100# of creosote from the monthly or bi-monthly chimney cleanings from that miserable, disgusting triple wall chimney they sold in the '70's as "good" product. The only way to keep that cold chimney from creosoting up was to run that Fisher wide-open all the time = not doable.)

 

[Log Splitter]

Still working on getting those overnight burns, but really struggling to hit much more than 5 hours now. It seems that by the time the stove is hot enough to choke the air down, the wood is already quite a bit burned away. And then once I finally get it down low enough, choking it completely off drops the temp to below the safe zone within an hour. Still struggling to find a balance!

I think the majority of the problem is simply he wood is just too damn wet.

So I'm about to buy some wood and allow the stuff I have to season until next year.

There's a place with a good reputation around here called Cord King. They sell seasoned and kiln dried wood. $225 for a seasoned cord, and $325 for a kiln dried cord. The claims are 18-22% moisture on seasoned, and 8-10% on kiln dried.

With proper burning techniques, can this additional cost be justified? And is there a point where moisture content is going to be too low and I may end up with even more issues of shorter burn times?

 

[Woody Stover]

Still working on getting those overnight burns, but really struggling to hit much more than 5 hours now. It seems that by the time the stove is hot enough to choke the air down, the wood is already quite a bit burned away. And then once I finally get it down low enough, choking it completely off drops the temp to below the safe zone within an hour. Still struggling to find a balance!
I think the majority of the problem is simply he wood is just too damn wet.

Running the Buck 91, with a lot of steel to heat up, I would burn a few medium-small splits in the front of the box to pre-heat the stove, then load up on the coals and finish getting it up to temp without burning too much of the main load.
Yep, you are finding some of the problems with using wet wood. You have to burn the heck out of it to get it going, and a lot of the heat is going to evaporate water instead of heating up the stove. Then when you try to cut the air, the wet wood won't keep burning.

 

[Log Splitter]

Any thoughts on the 8-12% dried wood vs the 18-22% seasoned?

 

[begreen]

Claims often are just that. The kiln dried wood should be drier, but sometimes this is just the outside of the wood and not dry to the core. Unless you can visit them with an axe and moisture meter and test on the freshly split face of wood we'd just be guessing.

 

[brenndatomu]

Any thoughts on the 8-12% dried wood vs the 18-22% seasoned?

Maybe a cord of each and then mix it half n half when you load...that gives you about the ideal "average" moisture.

I think the majority of the problem is simply he wood is just too damn wet

I think you nailed it.

Another thought here, what about just not burning much this year so your wood can get another year on it...gas/oil is pretty cheap right now...maybe not much more than buying wood

 

[Log Splitter]

Yeah, I've noticed oil prices are cheap. $2 and change around here.

I'm going to be a bit more liberal than intended about the oil use and actually allow the thermostat to see the "heat" position on the cold cold nights.

I had been thinking of doing a cord kiln dried and a cord seasoned. Anything will be light years ahead of the stuff I'm burning. They also claim to only sell hardwood. Oak, hickory, maple, ash and cherry. They also allow you to select length size. 16' or 18" on seasoned, and 16" or 22" on kiln dried.

I've heard great reviews from the locals, including hearth shop owners in the area. They say it's the only place they know of where you get a legitimate full cord that's actually at the moisture content they advertise.