RE: FirefighterJake screws up . . . and breaks one of Brother Bart's Cardinal Rules . . . which is w

[Jags]

BB, you say I should never close the air completely with this mod, even during overfire? Danger of backdraft even if 2'ndary air is unrestricted?

Yep, I am the magnet guy. And no you don't close it all the way down. Gotta have some flame to feed the gases to those tubes up top. Essentially what you are doing is turning a EPA stove into a pre-EPA stove with secondary burn. Shut off all the primary air and some time later you are going to have a smoldering pile of crap in the bottom of the firebox. And not enough heat and a chimney that you ain't gonna like looking down.

If you feel the burning, pun intended, need to close the primary all the way down. Leave it alone like it was designed. And let the unrestricted inlet go its job.

Thanks, but I think you missed exactly what I was asking. As I said, I never close the air all the way, for the reasons you stated. What I'm asking is: During an active overfire, and given the blocked inlet, should I keep the air cracked open to avoid a backdraft? Even though secondary air is still open?

Redacted post by Jags.
(post was going to confuse the issue)

 

[oldspark]

BB, you say I should never close the air completely with this mod, even during overfire? Danger of backdraft even if 2'ndary air is unrestricted?

Yep, I am the magnet guy. And no you don't close it all the way down. Gotta have some flame to feed the gases to those tubes up top. Essentially what you are doing is turning a EPA stove into a pre-EPA stove with secondary burn. Shut off all the primary air and some time later you are going to have a smoldering pile of crap in the bottom of the firebox. And not enough heat and a chimney that you ain't gonna like looking down.

If you feel the burning, pun intended, need to close the primary all the way down. Leave it alone like it was designed. And let the unrestricted inlet go its your job.

Thanks, but I think you missed exactly what I was asking. As I said, I never close the air all the way, for the reasons you stated. What I'm asking is: During an active overfire, and given the blocked inlet, should I keep the air cracked open to avoid a backdraft? Even though secondary air is still open?

You cant close the primary air all the way unless you have modified your stove, I think that is what you are asking.

 

[BrotherBart]

What I'm asking is: During an active overfire, and given the blocked inlet, should I keep the air cracked open to avoid a backdraft? Even though secondary air is still open?

The secondary inlet should let it pull enough air. No way to know, but it looks good on paper. The best clue is going to be if there is still flame up at the baffle. And I don't know that I have ever heard of a backdraft in a six inch chimney or liner anyway. They were a big issue with the old slammer inserts.

 

[midwestcoast]

Thanks. Just wanted to be sure of my best course for when I make some inevitable bonehead move & need to calm things down.

 

[semipro]

I think I'd be more worried about cracking my stove because I changed the temp too rapidly by throwing wet newspaper in it. Cast iron is pretty tough stuff but will crack readily if thermal expansion/contraction doesn't occur uniformly and slowly.

I've been concerned that my Oslo was getting too hot once or twice so I experimented by going outside and covering the OAK intake; it slowed the fire nicely. That's one advantage of OAKs you rarely see mentioned. Putting your arm back under a stove that's overheating to block the air intake isn't fun. That's one when I'd much rather go out in the cold.. unless that coon is still waiting for me.

I was a bit concerned about that myself Semipro . . . which is why I didn't use much newspaper or have it soaking wet . . . that said . . . not that there will be a next time . . . but if there was . . . I would most definitely remember to cover the air inlet.

FFJake,
Since you obviously know your Oslo well.....There's a lot of discussion in this thread about secondary air inlet. Maybe other stoves have a 2nd air inlet but unless I'm mistaken the Oslo has only one air inlet at the rear bottom. It splits and some air goes to primary burn via the adjustable inlet behind the front glass and the other side goes straight up to feed the secondaries; at least that 's the way it looks to me. Do you or does anyone here know differently?

 

[VTHC]

Well... I had to deal with this exact issue last night (minus the adding more wood on top of an active fire), and i am very glad Jake posted what he did - as i used the knowledge he shared (and others in this thread) to stop a potential runaway/over-fire.

Here's the scenario: good bed of coals glowing red hot (golf ball to baseball sized, stove top around 375-400*). Load the stove full for overnight burn before i go to bed - 2-3 large splits and 3-4 med/small rounds of Ash. Leave the door cracked open for a bit to let everything catch and go into the adjacent room to watch a little TV while i wait. A few minutes go by and i peek into the living room and see that the flames are going pretty good, so i close the door on the stove take note of the temps (everything fine) and then back to watching the local news. At commercial break back to living room to turn down primary air to around 1/2 - 2/3 (my usual routine for overnight burn). Take note of the stove top temp reading a little high (slightly under 500*), so i make a note to check it sooner than i normally would before shutting it down for the night. Get caught up in a local news story and realize i need to check the stove. Go to living room and notice the temp at 575* so i shut the primary completely, and that is when the secondaries come belching out like flames from hell. At this point i am used to the fire dying down a bit and the stove cruising at 550* or so (have been burning marginally seasoned stuff to make room for good stuff in the shed). Not this night. I haven't seen secondaries like that since i bought the stove last winter! They just kept coming and STRONG! I started to panic as i notice my thermo on the stove top hit 650 and continue to climb towards 700*.

I ended up stuffing one of my welding gloves into the primary air intake area, and the other into the secondary air intake on the back of the stove until the fire died down to a more manageable fire - with lazy secondaries. Once back in check the temp dropped back down to the 500-550 range and everything went fine, but man, did i start to panic until i decided to cover the 1* and 2* air intakes! The run up of temp happened really quick once the secondaries started to blast the window! maybe 5-7 minutes? So i can now understand why Jake started to panic at the 600*, as i did the same...

If anyone is interested the primary air for a Hearthstone Shelburne is right next to the air control on the bottom of the stove (sliding metal plate), and the secondary air is on the back of the stove in the middle by the bottom.

 

[oldspark]

Not sure I understand why you had to put a glove on the primary air, wasn't that shut down for the most part with the lever, mine is only open a slight amount with the lever closed. I think I am going to make a secondary air shut off for my summit.

 

[VTHC]

Not sure I understand why you had to put a glove on the primary air, wasn't that shut down for the most part with the lever, mine is only open a slight amount with the lever closed. I think I am going to make a secondary air shut off for my summit.

A bit of over-reaction... I stuffed the glove in the primary to close up the remaining small opening from the "closed" lever. The secondary air shutdown was the key in getting things to cool down.

 

[Bobbin]

Jake, you crack me up. And so did Jags when he called you a "sissy".

Nothing worse than watching the temperature rise steadily and feeling helpless and freaked right out! My own experience was way, way, stupid in comparison, but the freaked out, adrenalin rush was the same. Sucked!

 

[gibson]

Here's my checklist for those hairy moments. I have been over 850* on the way to 900* briefly (taken via infrared pointed into the blower vent.

1.) Secondary air shut
2.) Blower on high
3.) House fan on high blowing at the stove from about 7' away.

Has worked very well those 3-4 times I have gotten a little nervous.

 

[Jags]

Jake, you crack me up. And so did Jags when he called you a "sissy".

All in good fun.

I have been there. Ya know, when the sucker is running hard, the needle on the thermo looks more like a tachometer than a thermometer. The feeling that the stove is so dang hot, ya don't even want to get near it for fear of non-contact burns. I know that feeling. Heart is racing, sweat is pouring, mind is out of control, nervous as a boy scout in a two bit brothel...Where the heck was I going with this... :lol:

 

[firefighterjake]

Jake, you crack me up. And so did Jags when he called you a "sissy".

All in good fun.

I have been there. Ya know, when the sucker is running hard, the needle on the thermo looks more like a tachometer than a thermometer. The feeling that the stove is so dang hot, ya don't even want to get near it for fear of non-contact burns. I know that feeling. Heart is racing, sweat is pouring, mind is out of control, nervous as a boy scout in a two bit brothel...Where the heck was I going with this... :lol:

I don't know . . . you had me at brothel.

 

[firefighterjake]

Well... I had to deal with this exact issue last night (minus the adding more wood on top of an active fire), and i am very glad Jake posted what he did - as i used the knowledge he shared (and others in this thread) to stop a potential runaway/over-fire.

Here's the scenario: good bed of coals glowing red hot (golf ball to baseball sized, stove top around 375-400*). Load the stove full for overnight burn before i go to bed - 2-3 large splits and 3-4 med/small rounds of Ash. Leave the door cracked open for a bit to let everything catch and go into the adjacent room to watch a little TV while i wait. A few minutes go by and i peek into the living room and see that the flames are going pretty good, so i close the door on the stove take note of the temps (everything fine) and then back to watching the local news. At commercial break back to living room to turn down primary air to around 1/2 - 2/3 (my usual routine for overnight burn). Take note of the stove top temp reading a little high (slightly under 500*), so i make a note to check it sooner than i normally would before shutting it down for the night. Get caught up in a local news story and realize i need to check the stove. Go to living room and notice the temp at 575* so i shut the primary completely, and that is when the secondaries come belching out like flames from hell. At this point i am used to the fire dying down a bit and the stove cruising at 550* or so (have been burning marginally seasoned stuff to make room for good stuff in the shed). Not this night. I haven't seen secondaries like that since i bought the stove last winter! They just kept coming and STRONG! I started to panic as i notice my thermo on the stove top hit 650 and continue to climb towards 700*.

I ended up stuffing one of my welding gloves into the primary air intake area, and the other into the secondary air intake on the back of the stove until the fire died down to a more manageable fire - with lazy secondaries. Once back in check the temp dropped back down to the 500-550 range and everything went fine, but man, did i start to panic until i decided to cover the 1* and 2* air intakes! The run up of temp happened really quick once the secondaries started to blast the window! maybe 5-7 minutes? So i can now understand why Jake started to panic at the 600*, as i did the same...

If anyone is interested the primary air for a Hearthstone Shelburne is right next to the air control on the bottom of the stove (sliding metal plate), and the secondary air is on the back of the stove in the middle by the bottom.

I knew there was a reason for spilling my guts and making my confession. Glad to hear you learned from my mistake.