Question on wood-burning insert or stove for NH home

[sweedish]

Have you looked at a kuma sequoia insert? When I was looking I found those to be about the largest insert I could find.

 

[weatherguy]

Have you looked at a kuma sequoia insert? When I was looking I found those to be about the largest insert I could find.

I think the insert and free stander are the same, you just dont attach the legs if you use as an insert.

 

[adatel]

I think the insert and free stander are the same, you just dont attach the legs if you use as an insert.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before. I will look into it. Appreciate the tip.

 

[adatel]

I visited the Woodstock factory and I am sold! I am going to buy an Ideal Steel. Any recommendations for good chimney sweeps in southern new hampshire who will install this for me (including the stainless chimney liner) into my hearth? I asked Woodstock and they gave me three named but they won't come to southern NH :-( Thanks again and I look forward to posting pictures when everything is set up. Meanwhile, I have wood seasoning in my open walled shed and a lot more coming... lots of chainsaw and axe action these days!

 

[begreen]

What will you be using to convect the heat?

 

[adatel]

What will you be using to convect the heat?

The stove will be halfway out of the (very high) firebox and the ceilings are high and I have large (cold) windows so I was thinking that as long as I have the chimney/flue well sealed, I will get a lot of natural convection currents flowing into and around the room because of the different temperature gradients. I am sure it would be more effective & efficient with a blower (which is why I was thinking of the BK Sirocco) but aesthetically the IS works better... I am going for all black with blank black steel side panels -- so I get the industrial look in black.

This is not optimal for a heat distribution perspective but I still think the IS is going to throw so much heat that I will be a lot warmer in the great room space (and the MBR which is directly above) and reduce my propane usage a lot when I am in the house. My central blower main intake is just off the great room so I am also curious whether turning on the fan (which is variable speed) will help circulate the warm air through the house.

But if you think this is all a stupid plan or there are alternatives that wouldn't be aesthetically problematic (ie, I am not going to put a box fan on the hearth ), I would really appreciate your perspective... I wish I could run a couple side by side or sequential experiments but who has the money and time for that?!

Broader context: I realized that since I am not in the house all the time (3-4 days/week), the woodstove will only ever be a supplement to some other strategy for reducing propane (and high carbon releasing heating). So, in the mid-term, I am hoping to get together enough money to install a geosource heat pump (I have plenty of meadow space and ground water for closed or open loop, my propane hot air furnace is 20 years old and my WH same, so I will need to replace them in next 5-10 anyway so I would swap out before that happens) with PV on my big south-facing steep roofs of house & barn to generate the electricity for the heatpump, pool pump etc, but that is all about $50K I think which is a lot but no more 7K per year in propane & electricity... I think I could get a 7 year breakeven and then I am paying nothing for heating, cooling and charging my electric truck and tractor... all of that with a very low carbon footprint. Or, I could be deluded.

 

[begreen]

Ceiling fans in the room will help and can be configured to create a convective loop.

 

[kyguylal]

I'm also in southern NH with a house very similar. We're heading about 3,500sf and our stove room has 16' ceilings with an entire wall made out of glass.

What part of Southern nh? I'm in Windham and I know a few chimney guys and wood guys with aged wood

 

[adatel]

I'm also in southern NH with a house very similar. We're heading about 3,500sf and our stove room has 16' ceilings with an entire wall made out of glass.

What part of Southern nh? I'm in Windham and I know a few chimney guys and wood guys with aged wood

Hi, I am in Temple which is about an hour west of you out 101 before Peterborough; people who work in the Nashua area will usually come west to Temple; if you have any recommendations for chimney pros, I would appreciate it. I guess there is a private conversation function that you can use to send to me. thanks very much for taking the time!

 

[EbS-P]

I think I have 41”+/- from the front of the hearth to the back of the fireplace. With a top vent there is no need for ember protection on the floor as I meet the 16” door to front of hearth requirement. Choose cat or non cat first. That will help you narrow down your choices. If it were my fireplace I would put in a Jøtul F600 top vent. Looking at you dimensions is seems like a plausible fit. You have a fresh air intake I would take advantage of that and hook it up to the stove. I would install a block off plate too.


With an opening that big you will be able to see the liner and they are not very athletic so that should be addressed, not sure how maybe someone else here can help. My first thought would be pre-insulated liner painted black with stove or grill paint. As for a blower I have one sitting on the fireplace floor with the ash pan you can’t even tell it’s there. I really like the ash pan BTW. Just my two cents. Evan

 

[adatel]

I think I have 41”+/- from the front of the hearth to the back of the fireplace. With a top vent there is no need for ember protection on the floor as I meet the 16” door to front of hearth requirement. Choose cat or non cat first. That will help you narrow down your choices. If it were my fireplace I would put in a Jøtul F600 top vent. Looking at you dimensions is seems like a plausible fit. You have a fresh air intake I would take advantage of that and hook it up to the stove. I would install a block off plate too.
View attachment 244557

With an opening that big you will be able to see the liner and they are not very athletic so that should be addressed, not sure how maybe someone else here can help. My first thought would be pre-insulated liner painted black with stove or grill paint. As for a blower I have one sitting on the fireplace floor with the ash pan you can’t even tell it’s there. I really like the ash pan BTW. Just my two cents. Evan
View attachment 244558

Thank you, Evan. I would like to get a catalytic due to reduced emissions (and arguably increased efficiency and burn time), so that is why I am leaning toward the Ideal Steel. Aesthetically, it also works very well with my modern furniture, etc.

I like your idea about the blower and will see whether I can get something that is inconspicuous enough. I will also look into the ceiling fan idea.

Also, you are right that I will need to do something aesthetically about the pre-insulated liner going up the chimney although since the IS is pretty high, it won't be very visible ... only about 8 inches between top of stove and bottom of firebox lintel.

 

[georgepds]

Woodstock makes good stoves, but there is the caveat that none have a blower option. In this circumstance a blower will make a significant difference in convecting the heat. This can help deliver more heat more evenly in a big space, especially when used in conjunction with a ceiling fan.

Umm... my understanding is that the soapstone ones heat by radiation, and do not need a blower

 

[georgepds]

Re "
The big caveat is unless you have a proven verified source of wood that has been properly stored and seasoned for two full years you are up for nothing but frustration if you install a stove this summer and try to burn this fall."

Not my experience (northern Ma), nor is it the experience of folks who studied it in Alaska. One season is effective for drying wood. Store it in an area open to wind and sun and top cover it.

Don't get me wrong ,dry wood is better than wet, but you can dry it in New England in a season. In the event that he moisture content is too high at the end of the summer season ( I suspect some people try to store their wood in a pine covered glacial valley under a waterfall) .. just mix it with bio bricks to lower the average moisture content

 

[begreen]

Umm... my understanding is that the soapstone ones heat by radiation, and do not need a blower

Convection is usually preferable with a stove in a fireplace and especially with a high ceiling. The masonry is going to soak up a lot of the radiant heat. However, seeing this is an interior fireplace a ceiling fan may provide adequate circulation of the warm air.

 

[georgepds]

Convection is usually preferable with a stove in a fireplace and especially with a high ceiling. The masonry is going to soak up a lot of the radiant heat. However, seeing this is an interior fireplace a ceiling fan may provide adequate circulation of the warm air.

Ahhh.. thanks for the explanation..

 

[adatel]

Convection is usually preferable with a stove in a fireplace and especially with a high ceiling. The masonry is going to soak up a lot of the radiant heat. However, seeing this is an interior fireplace a ceiling fan may provide adequate circulation of the warm air.

Hmm... Does that mean that the most energy efficient installation would be to line my firebox and flue block with a reflective radiant barrier (foil-like) which would reflect the radiant heat back into the room rather than heating the fireplace/chimney mass? (Not sure this would be aesthetically acceptable to me, but just curious about the hypothetical.)

 

[georgepds]

Hmm... Does that mean that the most energy efficient installation would be to line my firebox and flue block with a reflective radiant barrier (foil-like) which would reflect the radiant heat back into the room rather than heating the fireplace/chimney mass? (Not sure this would be aesthetically acceptable to me, but just curious about the hypothetical.)

On the hypothetical side I note my Woodstock Progress hybrid has heat shield in back, which reduces radiation into the hearth...

If you are not irradiating the hearth, does the original argument hold?

 

[georgepds]

Re " ( I suspect some people try to store their wood in a pine covered glacial valley under a waterfall) ."

More seriously, I suspect local climate plays a big role in the difference in time to season from one wood user to the next. Consider the difference between a chord of wood in death valley versus one in the close to waterfall conditions of Seattle

My guess is the chord sitting in the death valley sun will be more likely to cure in one season than the chord in Seattle that is covered in slugs, snails, and other rain adoring creatures.

 

[adatel]

On the hypothetical side I note my Woodstock Progress hybrid has heat shield in back, which reduces radiation into the hearth...

If you are not irradiating the hearth, does the original argument hold?

The Ideal Steel has a bottom heat shield and an optional rear heat shield; if those are designed to reflect radiant heat then that (especially the rear one) would be good for me to include... I guess I can contact Woodstock to find out the engineering rationale for those heat shields.

 

[edyit]

I guess I can contact Woodstock to find out the engineering rationale for those heat shields.

my first guess would be to reduce clearance to combustibles.

 

[georgepds]

my first guess would be to reduce clearance to combustibles.

That is the explanation they gave me

 

[adatel]

Hi Everybody,

I finally have my Woodstock Ideal Steel installed in my large fireplace and it is simply brilliant! It throws off a lot of heat (very convenient because a week after I started firing up my stove my furnace went out and is still waiting for a part) and it looks beautiful.

Thank you again for all the help!

I am happier than I expected with the way it looks -- super great! big window to watch the fire and I love the way the flames dance around my dragon andirons and I get jets of plasma (?) coming down through the secondary burner... it is amazing!

And I am a bit less happy about how much heat it creates -- don't get me wrong, it does throw a lot of heat, but I suspect I am wasting a lot by heating up the masonry mass of the fireplace which, since it is anchored in New Hampshire granite, is basically an infinite heat sink.

Some observations:

1. I had it installed with the front of the stove projecting 10-12" beyond the face of the fireplace surround; even though I have the damper closed with cement board and insulation around the double-walled stainless flu, I'm sure the stove puts a lot of effort into heating the heat sink of the masonry fireplace and chimney rather than projecting it out into the room. I knew that would happen and I knew that positioning was not optimal (coming out further would have meant more heat for me), but I didn't want it further onto the hearth aesthetically... oh well.
2. I don't have any fans although I am playing around with hanging fans behind it in the fireplace and blowing that hot air into the room, but I haven't found anything that works really well (it is very hot there); I am also thinking whether I could put a fan below/behind the stove so it isn't as hot and have it blow air up, past the back of the stove, and then over the top of the stove out toward the room
3. I don't have a ceiling fan, so the top foot of my 9 or 10 foot ceiling gets up to 90-95 F degrees when the stove has been going for a while; since the master bedroom (and my king-sized bed) is directly above the living room, I am thinking about cutting a hole into the ceiling and the floor of the bedroom (and putting grates on each end) and creating a draft "register" which I assume would shift a lot of that hot air from the living room and to right underneath my bed/mattress which is a foot off the floor... of course, I would need to have some way of shutting that when I have guests downstairs and it gets noisy in the bedroom ;-) !!
4. I have a removable floor protector sitting on the wood floor in front of the stove since I need something like 16" for code... also, I have had hot coals come out the front when I opened the door, so when I am using the stove I will leave it there; in summertime, I will store it away.
5. My fireplace had an external air intake and so I made sure the installer hooked that up via 4" flexible stainless hose, and I think that makes a lot of difference since I am not pulling hot air out of the house for combustion especially since my house is pretty tight

(Note: when I took these photos I didn't have the stove fired up fully.)

Thanks again!
Anthony


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