Picked up my Englander SSW02 (Big madison)

[bholler]

By the way what air is regulated on the 30 if it is not the air coming in the dog house?

 

[Highbeam]

Your cat stove is not air tight either. Unless you can put the fire out by closing down the air it is not air tight.

Okay, it's not 100% air tight, you're right but I can put the fire (flames) out and I do every day. The load just smokes itself to dust being fed air by a very precisely sized minimum air feed. My cat stove's air control has a little hole in the flapper to maintain a minimum air setting to keep emissions down. No other unregulated air holes, only the little hole when it's shut down. Some BKs do not even have this hole so are actually air tight.That is why my cat stove can be run at 250 or really hot depending on my needs. After experiencing it, I think most people would prefer an all day burn at 300 to a 5 hour burn at 600, the room temp stays constant and comfort is very high.

As I said earlier, if your noncat stove at 600+ is needed to keep your house warm then great. It's for those of us that want 300 that a non-cat lacks sufficient burn rate control. With the ability to simmer along at 300 comes the ability to have a very long burn time as well. Maybe if you could maintain a fire at 300 all day then you wouldn't need a 600 degree stove, or maybe you just prefer the pulses of heat. Both work fine.

 

[Highbeam]

By the way what air is regulated on the 30 if it is not the air coming in the dog house?

The only air regulated on an NC30 is the airwash air admitted above the door. It is only somewhat regulated since the air control slider can't be completely closed. There are three other holes in the stove shell that feed full throttle, uncontrolled, combustion air into the firebox. One hole to the secondary system and two holes to the doghouse.

It is for this reason that an OAK on the NC30 is worthless.

It's a fine system that has very low emissions (lower than my cat stove!) for a very large 3.5 cubic foot firebox. You just can't run clean and cool. Hot and bothered is how she runs!

 

[bholler]

Okay, it's not 100% air tight, you're right but I can put the fire (flames) out and I do every day.

Yes but if I did that my house would be cold so why would I want to?

With the ability to simmer along at 300 comes the ability to have a very long burn time as well. Maybe if you could maintain a fire at 300 all day then you wouldn't need a 600 degree stove,

Yes there are some times that running that low is enough heat and if that is all the heat I need I just shut down earlier and I would not have loaded as full. But most of the heating season that is not enough heat plain and simple so why would I pay extra for a stove that excels at something I would almost never need when for allot less money I can get one that serves my needs just fine? And no I don't get temp swings in the house.

and two holes to the doghouse.

And maybe that is why the front of your stove is warped. It sounds like a design issue with that stove not an issue with all non cats like you make it out to be.

 

[Chas0218]

So an update, I saw you guys and your points. Just for some clarification. The air wash at the bottom of the stove is unregulated air about a dime sized hole My plan was to build a small cap that in the event of a chimney fire I could close the air intake on the back to seal off the bottom of the stove and smother the fire. From what I can tell the secondary air tubes are controlled by the damper rod and the AAS system.

Now for the gap, I check the gap again and it is about 1/32 of an inch for close to 4" long (1/32" in the center of the gap and smaller at the ends) and you can see where the gasket is contacting the stove face and where it isn't. I checked the flatness of the stove opening and the door. Both were bowed the stove face was 1/32" bowed inward at left 1/3 and the stove door had the same 1/32" bow. Once I shut the door and the gasket was squeezed between the door and the stove it left a slight gap about 1/32". Now I realize these are "Air tight" stoves in a sense that it still has the uncontrolled air inlets but I don't want to be blowing through wood or leaking any sort of smoke back into my house via a bad door seal. I am in contact with Englander and I hope we can remedy this problem for myself and people to come even if it means just adding a thicker gasket (which I think will be my case). I like the idea that when I call their help line a person that speaks English answers the phone and I can understand what they are saying, this is huge in my book.

EDIT: I will take a few photos tonight to show you guys the bow I am talking about in the firebox and the door. If the firebox wasn't bow/warped there wouldn't be a sealing problem. Kind of odd how the both are warped.

 

[Highbeam]

Since the door is hinged on one side and the latch that applies pressure is on the other, I think I would prefer a slight bow inward of the door. My thinking is that as you tension the latch side, you will flex the door flat. The stove I would want totally flat. Mine is not and it has nothing to do with heat, it was made that way. As I said earlier, they bend these things in a jig and I can easily imagine how the center between two sharp corners is bowed inwards.

 

[Chas0218]

Since the door is hinged on one side and the latch that applies pressure is on the other, I think I would prefer a slight bow inward of the door. My thinking is that as you tension the latch side, you will flex the door flat. The stove I would want totally flat. Mine is not and it has nothing to do with heat, it was made that way. As I said earlier, they bend these things in a jig and I can easily imagine how the center between two sharp corners is bowed inwards.

I'm with you. If the bow was the other direction of the door it would seal up tight no problem. Stove wise if they added a slightly raised area inside the jig so it would only flex outward when clamped they would be set in that aspect and it wouldn't become concave. The door is cast so I wouldn't see how it was possible to really change that but you could definitely work the jig enough to keep it from happening.

 

[weatherguy]

Seems fairly common with that stove, possibly because of what highbeam says. Most of the reviews I read they use a bigger gasket to close the gap.

 

[sportbikerider78]

One hole to the secondary system and two holes to the doghouse.

It is for this reason that an OAK on the NC30 is worthless.

It's a fine system that has very low emissions (lower than my cat stove!) for a very large 3.5 cubic foot firebox. You just can't run clean and cool. Hot and bothered is how she runs!

Are you saying you have 2 holes in your dog house? Or 2 holes feeding the 1 hole on the doghouse?

The doghouse on mine has 1 hole.

 

[Highbeam]

Are you saying you have 2 holes in your dog house? Or 2 holes feeding the 1 hole on the doghouse?

The doghouse on mine has 1 hole.

On the NC30, the doghouse has one outlet into the firebox but is fed with two inlets. One at each front corner under the stove feeding air into the channel that supports the bottom of the door frame. Perhaps for cooling? The holes are pretty big too. Pinky sized.

 

[Chas0218]

As promised pictures.
These first 2 are of the door.


These are of the stove.

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58dbaf13d218e/20170328_153334_001.jpg?

 

[Highbeam]

Oh, the door is bowed outwards. Opposite of what I thought you were saying. Stove bowed inwards. Your bananas don't match!

 

[Chas0218]

Oh, the door is bowed outwards. Opposite of what I thought you were saying. Stove bowed inwards. Your bananas don't match!

Yeah, if they were bowed the same way I would be golden I think. They are starting to think it might be a hinge issue that the dogs that hold the pin are too long and not allowing for full contact.

 

[bholler]

I would return that stove if it was me you will never get the door to seal properly

 

[Chas0218]

I would return that stove if it was me you will never get the door to seal properly

I'm working with Englander to see what their fix is. I am going to press the issue a little and see what they decide to do.

 

[bholler]

I'm working with Englander to see what their fix is. I am going to press the issue a little and see what they decide to do.

To me the only acceptable answer is a new stove.

 

[Highbeam]

To me the only acceptable answer is a new stove.

Better check that one too. They're probably all like that. Mine is too, though maybe not quite that bad!

The only way to create the outside corner is to push the steel around a die. You have to over flex it so that the corner is 90 degrees when off the die. This means that the area between the two corners will not be 180 degrees.

Might be time to cut and weld all 6 sides to make the cube if they can't get it right. Cost will increase of course.

 

[weatherguy]

Take your level with you if you look for a replacement.

 

[bholler]

The only way to create the outside corner is to push the steel around a die. You have to over flex it so that the corner is 90 degrees when off the die. This means that the area between the two corners will not be 180 degrees.

Then how do other companies do it with no problems at all?

Might be time to cut and weld all 6 sides to make the cube if they can't get it right. Cost will increase of course.

I don't work on enough englanders to have a good reference on their stoves but I can tell you there are plenty of other stove manufacturers out there that do it all the time with very few issues.

 

[Highbeam]

Then how do other companies do it with no problems at all?


I don't work on enough englanders to have a good reference on their stoves but I can tell you there are plenty of other stove manufacturers out there that do it all the time with very few issues.

Yes but at the 600$ price point?

 

[bholler]

Yes but at the 600$ price point?

no I am just pointing out that it can absolutely be done

 

[Chas0218]

I just got off the phone with tech support and long story short they are sending a new stove also going to be checked before it leaves the factory. I think the main issue with the stove was that the hinges were a little too long keeping the gasket from being squeezed enough by the door. I included some of the photos they requested on the hinge side of the door. Like I mentioned there was a small gap about 1/32" after the door was shut and was towards the hinge side more than the center of the stove. I'm impressed with the customer service and how they stand behind their product. I wish I didn't need to use the customer service I'm happy they were easy to deal with and they didn't blow me off. Before I give Englander my nod of approval I want to see the new stove to make sure everything is good with that one. I will take my level and flashlight with me when I inspect the new stove just so I don't have to load and unload it into my house again.

 

[bholler]

I just got off the phone with tech support and long story short they are sending a new stove also going to be checked before it leaves the factory.

Good I am glad they are taking care of the issue

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Ill have to check mine to see if it seals good .the dollar bill test. Also did anyone ever find out if the air adjustment rod being pulled out when you open the door is a design defect or done on purpose.

 

[Chas0218]

Good I am glad they are taking care of the issue

Me too, one of their shop techs took a look at the stove and said that it is un-repairable and needs to be replaced with a different unit. My guess is once they get the stove back they will cut the hinges off and weld them back on a little shorter to put more pressure on the gasket as it should have been like that. I'm hoping that their fix doesn't cause the door to warp and lift away in other spots.

Ideally they should modify their jigs to keep the stove from bowing when bent and maybe making the hinges slightly shorter. I think it would be simple if they supported the entire front of the stove during the bending process, I'm not a tool and die maker but went to school for it and I don't know how they are bending the front of the stove inward when bending the rest of the stove. With all the forces put on the stove when bending it should bow it outward.

I'm not looking forward to removing the old stove from the house it was quite a pain just to get it in there but if it fixes the issue I'm okay with that.