PE Summit Vs BK Princess inserts

[stircrazy]

PE's reburn system is more durable=Yes. PE's reburn system is better=Your opinion.

yup thats right, my opinion based on I own an Osburn, my parents own a regency, and I have played with the PEs a lot in the last year as 5 of my friends have them. so ya my opinion but I will call it an educated opinion when comparing the three brands I did mention.

Steve

 

[begreen]

Better is very subjective. What qualifies that? If it is efficiency, then the Englander 30's specs would beg to differ. If it is durability, then I would tend to agree due to the lack of baffle board.

 

[stircrazy]

Better is very subjective. What qualifies that? If it is efficiency, then the Englander 30's specs would beg to differ. If it is durability, then I would tend to agree due to the lack of baffle board.

I went to look at that stove on there site, they don't post any eff numbers, but home depot carries them and lists them as 0.63 eff. but they do claim a 1.63 grams per hour for emmisions, but this is the free standing also.. can't find any info on the insert.

so the eff of the PE summit is 0.803, I have seen higher numbers but usaly in smaller stoves. and the PE's emmisions are 3.56 gram per hr, but it is also a 93K BTU insert Vs a 75K BTU free standing.

But if the 1.63 g/hr is accurate then that is a very impressive result, but to me I would rather have the efficiency of the wood to heat of the PE, you end up with 17% more heat to the room from the same amount of wood, and both are with in the most stringent wood burning standards as we have the same ones as washington state where I live, we need permits to install and if it isn't under the 4.5g/hr or what ever it is you can't install it.

I find we are very limited in what we can get up here. there are some very very beautiful stoves that you guys can get no problem down in the US, but for us to get them they would be a special order from a company that is willing to order something they don't carry (far and few between) and then you can almost double the price you guys would pay. thats why in my statment I specificly mentiond 4 brands we can get up here, I am not saying there arn't better stoves out there but rather that for the 4 companies I listed the PE is leaps ahead of the other three. I specificly didn't mention blaze king either as I concider them to be right up there with PE

Steve

 

[begreen]

That makes sense with PE being made locally. Though I would also expect Regency to have a good showing.

 

[stircrazy]

That makes sense with PE being made locally. Though I would also expect Regency to have a good showing.

Regency up here is concidered an entry level insert/stove. when I was looking at new ones I found the regency to be a much less robust unit than the others (thinner metal), but the enviro was very close to it, and they both are in the same price range.

Steve

 

[Angelo C]

Better is very subjective. What qualifies that? If it is efficiency, then the Englander 30's specs would beg to differ. If it is durability, then I would tend to agree due to the lack of baffle board.

Just wondering out loud folks....does the Fuel matter more then the insert? I hear all our brothers from the North loving their BK's and I hear us lower folks clammering for the non-Cat types. Is the relative lack of hardwoods driving these patterns as much as the "seasoning" of said fuels. Down this way we won't burn pines/cedars ect. You can't give the stuff away. its mostly Oak, Ash, Cherry and Maple. And most people won't season it worth a dern. If it lights and don't leak water on the way to the FP then its good to go.

Great discussions so far guys. thanks. The nearest Buck dealer is 60 miles from me. anybody have any experiences with the bigger insert?

 

[begreen]

Wood does make a difference, but we have lots of folks burning hardwood in cat stoves and lots of folks burning softwood in non-cats, and vice versa. Seasoned wood however is a must if you want good performance from a modern stove. How well seasoned will depend on the wood species. Ash can get away with much less seasoning than oak for instance.

 

[HotCoals]

Better is very subjective. What qualifies that? If it is efficiency, then the Englander 30's specs would beg to differ. If it is durability, then I would tend to agree due to the lack of baffle board.

Just wondering out loud folks....does the Fuel matter more then the insert? I hear all our brothers from the North loving their BK's and I hear us lower folks clammering for the non-Cat types. Is the relative lack of hardwoods driving these patterns as much as the "seasoning" of said fuels. Down this way we won't burn pines/cedars ect. You can't give the stuff away. its mostly Oak, Ash, Cherry and Maple. And most people won't season it worth a dern. If it lights and don't leak water on the way to the FP then its good to go.

Great discussions so far guys. thanks. The nearest Buck dealer is 60 miles from me. anybody have any experiences with the bigger insert?

Me thinks the people up north know what is best..lol.

 

[begreen]

How far north? We have a lot of folks in the coldest states and in Canada that only have softwood to burn.

 

[stircrazy]

How far north? We have a lot of folks in the coldest states and in Canada that only have softwood to burn.

ya, and it sucks. we can get ponderosa pine free and pretty much seasoned already, but to find hard wood is harder. we do have some birch, lots of fruit trees where I am. but for the most part pine, fir or birch.

Steve

 

[Todd]

Better is very subjective. What qualifies that? If it is efficiency, then the Englander 30's specs would beg to differ. If it is durability, then I would tend to agree due to the lack of baffle board.

I went to look at that stove on there site, they don't post any eff numbers, but home depot carries them and lists them as 0.63 eff. but they do claim a 1.63 grams per hour for emmisions, but this is the free standing also.. can't find any info on the insert.

so the eff of the PE summit is 0.803, I have seen higher numbers but usaly in smaller stoves. and the PE's emmisions are 3.56 gram per hr, but it is also a 93K BTU insert Vs a 75K BTU free standing.

But if the 1.63 g/hr is accurate then that is a very impressive result, but to me I would rather have the efficiency of the wood to heat of the PE, you end up with 17% more heat to the room from the same amount of wood, and both are with in the most stringent wood burning standards as we have the same ones as washington state where I live, we need permits to install and if it isn't under the 4.5g/hr or what ever it is you can't install it.

I find we are very limited in what we can get up here. there are some very very beautiful stoves that you guys can get no problem down in the US, but for us to get them they would be a special order from a company that is willing to order something they don't carry (far and few between) and then you can almost double the price you guys would pay. thats why in my statment I specificly mentiond 4 brands we can get up here, I am not saying there arn't better stoves out there but rather that for the 4 companies I listed the PE is leaps ahead of the other three. I specificly didn't mention blaze king either as I concider them to be right up there with PE

Steve

All those stats and numbers are pretty meaningless. Manufactures can cherry pick the cleanest burn from 3 or 4 different EPA tests in the low, med or high burn rates. I'm guessing Englander picked that 1.63 gph from a high burn test where a non cat shines and it's probably at least double that at a low burn where most people burn at. BTU numbers are just as bad.

 

[Angelo C]

is there a direct relationship between "cleaner burns" and higher heat outputs or is it just longer heat output? I agree numbers mean what the author of those numbers want them to mean. I'm a sales person and I know I would never use numbers an Accountant gave me unless I got to pick which ones I used in my "presentation"...

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you should then know how to interpret marketing specs for stoves. If you run a modern EPA stove correctly with seasoned wood, you will be burning cleanly.

 

[Angelo C]

Sounds like you should then know how to interpret marketing specs for stoves. If you run a modern EPA stove correctly with seasoned wood, you will be burning cleanly.

Not sure I follow your post as intended. My experience tells me to listen to users and mechanics when looking for real world "numbers". I listen to marketing when my boss tells me I have to sell something to pay the mortgage. No disrespect intended. I just don't trust blind marketing when there is plenty of real world users. Just have to decifer what their world is about.

 

[begreen]

That is exactly correct and what I was suggesting. Take marketing materials with a healthy grain of salt.

 

[Angelo C]

That is exactly correct and what I was suggesting. Take marketing materials with a healthy grain of salt.

Copy that !

 

[theonlyzarathu]

Sounds to me like you don't need a wood stove, you need a wood furnace. This is a different animal altogether, where you blow hot air or pump hot water throughout the house. You can find very very efficient wood furnaces that take four foot logs, and have no problem heating your whole house to a steady temperature with way more than coals in the morning. Google "wood furnace".

 

[Angelo C]

Sounds to me like you don't need a wood stove, you need a wood furnace. This is a different animal altogether, where you blow hot air or pump hot water throughout the house. You can find very very efficient wood furnaces that take four foot logs, and have no problem heating your whole house to a steady temperature with way more than coals in the morning. Google "wood furnace".

Good choice but don't have the flue for that unless they have a "high efficiency" one available. My existing furnace is a PVC exhaust setup.

 

[Hogwildz]

The only problem with a furnace is if you lose power, you lose blower/or pump, so you might need a generator also if you lose power alot.

 

[Angelo C]

OK guys, so I had pretty much decided on the PE Summit as they were the local dealer and I felt most comfortable with the product. I stopped by this afternoon to see if I could negotiate and get some hard prices. I asked what kind of flu was included in install and I opened a can of rats...of course they assured me there was NO need for an insulated flu. Never needed one never installed one. I told them mine will be. let me know what the OD and price was on the insulated version. We don't have one. again...never needed one, isn't one made. they use a insulated blanket around the flu and usually only 5-10' up only. At this point I am not likeing what I was hearing. this is all counter to what I read here. I told him I need to research some more and I will get back to him...which one of us is really confused now...us or him?

 

[stircrazy]

OK guys, so I had pretty much decided on the PE Summit as they were the local dealer and I felt most comfortable with the product. I stopped by this afternoon to see if I could negotiate and get some hard prices. I asked what kind of flu was included in install and I opened a can of rats...of course they assured me there was NO need for an insulated flu. Never needed one never installed one. I told them mine will be. let me know what the OD and price was on the insulated version. We don't have one. again...never needed one, isn't one made. they use a insulated blanket around the flu and usually only 5-10' up only. At this point I am not likeing what I was hearing. this is all counter to what I read here. I told him I need to research some more and I will get back to him...which one of us is really confused now...us or him?

And I have never heard of anyone using an insulated flue untill I started reading on here. mine isn't insulated and i don't have any draft problems, but thats not to say there is no need in every case for an insulated flue. a friend of mine is thinking of pulling his and putting a blanket on it but he is in a basment instalation with a 32 foot run, and a cheeper regency insert. he is upgrading that to a PE super this month and figures that will fix it because the super does very well in low draft installs. if it doesn't work he will insulate the flue. even taking to the place here that sells SBI, regency, and PE they always recomed the PE, especialy in installs where draft may be a problem and they don't use insulated pipe either, but they will drop down to a 5" flue on the PE's as they handle it with out a hick up and it increases the draft. Now I don't know what the weather is like where you are but we get lows down to about 0 f on average and a week or two a little colder, but thats only one out of many factors.

but I do agree if you want insulated pipe then thats what you should get, maybe see if they will wrap the whole pipe with the blanket.

Steve

 

[Angelo C]

Thanks Steve, it gets better, they quoted me $2000 for the insulation and SS Flue kit. That was almost as much as the Stove itself...the non-insulated version was $500...

I'm in NJ its not rediculously cold here but my current masonary FP back flows anytime the wind blows from the South. Of course the back of the house faces full south.

 

[rdust]

If the chimney is clay lined and meets code insulation isn't technically needed. If I was doing one I would wrap it even if it didn't need it, the insulation blanket when looking at the total cost is minimal and it's not going to hurt you to have it.

 

[stircrazy]

Thanks Steve, it gets better, they quoted me $2000 for the insulation and SS Flue kit. That was almost as much as the Stove itself...the non-insulated version was $500...

I'm in NJ its not rediculously cold here but my current masonary FP back flows anytime the wind blows from the South. Of course the back of the house faces full south.

that might not be a problem after a liner is installed. what size is your present flue, and do you have anything on top of it? my old house had a 12 x 8 flue and it always back drafted on start up and when it coold down and after I installed a wind director cap on it I never had the problem again. you can get different caps for the wood stoves that manage wind also.

something to look into anyways.

 

[Angelo C]

Rdust,
the Quote was $2000....almost adding 40% to the overall cost...yes the chimney is clay lined very solid and only 14 Y/O 9x16"...plenty of room in theory.