Advice for newbie's first stove: PE vs BK

[Hoytman]

D15,
I never really cared for the look of that particular design/model/look of PE stove, but your red version against that dark colored background is absolutely stunning. Very nice. Seems it runs very well for you. Very good information and post.

 

[Hoytman]

You know the funny thing is, @logfarmer and I have never met even living so close to each other yet we’ve been trading texts for likely well over a year now.

I’ve had several stoves, he’s had several stoves including a coal stove, a very nice WoodStock soapstone stove, and a catalytic Englander and through texts we both had our doubts about some of the claims of the BK stoves.

One day he sent me a text and said hey I found this used stove close to us both, he shared the link to the stove, and said what do you think. Well, for the year model, the condition of the stove, and especially the price I suggested he snatch it up, and so he did. He also bought a new catalyst and installed it.

He knows I keep record of how my stove runs, etc., so he sends me texts of when he loads along with pictures and we both monitor inside and outside temps, dial settings etc.

Through his journey with his BK King model we both have been more than impressed with how his stove is performing. So much so that we joke about it all the time.

I won’t speak for him, but trust me when I say that I really didn’t think those burn times were possible with so little wood, but even I can’t deny the facts that he sends me in text and pictures. Real facts, real photos, and real burn times. We both sort of joke about how unimpressed we used to be, now having to eat our own crow, so-to-speak.

I don’t mind eating a little crow, but I’m not eating a PE stove. Not going to happen. LOL!

I do my best to provide accurate information and not post BS.

That said, through various forum members posts, most notably, Begreen’s, who happens to be a big fan of PE stoves, I’ve come to realize how nice of a stove they really are. So reality for me is that I, in no way, shape, or form, want to give people the idea that PE stoves are junk or far less superior than a BK.

I’m a fanboy if neither brand because I’ve never owned either brand, so I have no axe to grind with either brand. However, I am just trying to convey how skeptical I once was about BK stoves and how having someone close by sending and sharing information changed my outlook on that brand and the burn times they were capable of.

Actually, PE has some very nice features and plenty of models to choose from. Begreen has sold me on their stainless baffle systems. If one happens to come my way as a used stove at the right price I will be snatching one up to have around, especially the “T” models with the swing out cook top.

So many good stoves with only so many chimneys and buildings to put them in. LOL!

 

[Ashful]

Question 1: Can any PE Summit (or T6) owners share any rough ideas of burn times?

Question 2: Any idea how many more cords of wood I should expect to burn going with a PE (non cat) vs the BK Princess?

I think I can short cut your process to understanding both answers, as well as some of the side debate happening around your thread.

Your home needs a certain amount of BTU to heat. The wood you are burning contains a fixed amount of BTU's. With both stoves having similar efficiency, both will use the same amount of wood to keep your home at a given temperature. This is what veteran member Hogz was getting at... in his own way.

In both cases, cat or non-cat, you're stuffing this fixed load of BTU's into a metal box, and controlling it's release rate by means of an air control mechanism. In the dead of winter, you're going to burn the BK or the PE at the same rate, and use the same amount of wood.

So, why all the debate? In autumn or spring, the difference in non-cat vs. cat becomes more apparent, when your reload schedule becomes more dictated by the low burn rate range of the stove than your homes peak heat demand. During October - November, and again late March - May, I would need to burn more frequent small fires in a non-cat, to avoid heating myself out of the house. If this is an issue for you, then the cat stove has some advantage during these months, as it can achieve lower burn rates than a non-cat, and allow for longer and slower fires at these times of year.

This is why you see veterans here pushing people toward non-cats when they mention bringing a cold hunting cabin or shop up fast from dead-cold, but then tending toward cat's in places where peak demand will be much lower, or when there is concern about overheating a smaller space.

To answer your questions more directly, with that understanding:

1. Both stoves will see the same burn rate in January, when your home needs more BTU's than the minimum burn rate on either stove. But when trying to dial the thing back in autumn or spring, expect 4 hours max per cubic foot from a non-cat, and 8 -10 hours max per cubic foot from a BK.

2. Both stoves will use same cordage of wood in a season, as the need is dictated by your home, not the stove. Hours will vary, but not cords.

 

[jdr7]

I think I can short cut your process to understanding both answers, as well as some of the side debate happening around your thread.

Your home needs a certain amount of BTU to heat. The wood you are burning contains a fixed amount of BTU's. With both stoves having similar efficiency, both will use the same amount of wood to keep your home at a given temperature. This is what veteran member Hogz was getting at... in his own way.

In both cases, cat or non-cat, you're stuffing this fixed load of BTU's into a metal box, and controlling it's release rate by means of an air control mechanism. In the dead of winter, you're going to burn the BK or the PE at the same rate, and use the same amount of wood.

So, why all the debate? In autumn or spring, the difference in non-cat vs. cat becomes more apparent, when your reload schedule becomes more dictated by the low burn rate range of the stove than your homes peak heat demand. During October - November, and again late March - May, I would need to burn more frequent small fires in a non-cat, to avoid heating myself out of the house. If this is an issue for you, then the cat stove has some advantage during these months, as it can achieve lower burn rates than a non-cat, and allow for longer and slower fires at these times of year.

This is why you see veterans here pushing people toward non-cats when they mention bringing a cold hunting cabin or shop up fast from dead-cold, but then tending toward cat's in places where peak demand will be much lower, or when there is concern about overheating a smaller space.

To answer your questions more directly, with that understanding:

1. Both stoves will see the same burn rate in January, when your home needs more BTU's than the minimum burn rate on either stove. But when trying to dial the thing back in autumn or spring, expect 4 hours max per cubic foot from a non-cat, and 8 -10 hours max per cubic foot from a BK.

2. Both stoves will use same cordage of wood in a season, as the need is dictated by your home, not the stove. Hours will vary, but not cords.

Perfect summary - thank you so much for helping me understand this. Makes a ton of sense, and also takes a lot of the weight off the decision. I definitely see how I can't go wrong. Just mostly deciding how much I'll want temperature control and reloading during the shoulder season.

 

[stoveliker]

I agree - and tried to say the same after your previous post. Not as eloquent as ashful tho.

My point is that if the need for this winter is solid, you can stop thinking. The good one you can get is infinitely better than the good one you can't get (in time)...

I don't think you'd be disappointed either way, so why wait.

 

[stoveliker]

My point is that all here say both are good. Then if circumstances push you one way, you should avoid going "what if" later on but just enjoy the good stove you got.

 

[bholler]

Well just because it won’t work for you or anyone else doesn’t mean it won’t work for others! My house is just under 1800sqft in SW Ohio good insulation and yes dead of winter in single digit temps I do 24 hr reloads and could do it at 30 hrs, but my work schedule will interfere with that..oh and the king is connected to a chimney that the “experts” say won’t work and cause all kinds of problems but does fantastic for us! 🤷🏻‍♂️ You also probably don’t want to hear that I’m on hr 14 with 4 average size splits of cottonwood, last night temps was around 40*. You know instead of people calling out BS, maybe the responses should be “oh wow, that’s impressive” or “I didn’t know a stove could that”. Not just saying that to you directly, it’s for everyone in general on this site! Both of those stoves are great options and great company’s. People answer on here with experiences they’ve had with products, but yet people get criticized on their responses. We all can do better people! To the original post, good luck with whichever stove you buy.

I don't doubt you can burn for 14+ hours with 4 splits of cotton wood. But the BTU content is so low there it simply can't be putting out much of any meaningful heat over that time period. With that low of BTU needs with the tube stove I would have a small soft wood fire overnight and the house would be fine. The princess I would load it at night then come home to an 80+ degree house after work. So I do the same thing I would have done with the regency. Burn a small fire overnight and let it go out

 

[EbS-P]

Do you have, or do you think you will get a heatpump in the future? I don’t need 24 hr cycles in the fall and spring because my heatpump handles everything really well and cheap enough whenever it’s 45 or above. And I will bank some heat in The house during the day and shut it off once it cools down outside. Last 3 nights it’s been below 40 (COLD for these parts in October). Warm the house up when it’s nice outside ( we keep it at about 73 and turn the heatpump down to 66 at night). Wait till 9 am to set it back to 73. This can save me 1/2 to a full cord of wood. Tax credits will be made a available next year and if you figure the cost of cats for 20 years and the tax credit your getting close to the cost for a 2 ton mini split install.

Don’t over think it. (Open damper) open door, Wood kindling, match, light, close door (close damper or set air air flow) repeat. Your houses air tightness and insulation will make a much bigger difference than PE or BK.

 

[begreen]

This thread has played out its course. It's like comparing Ford vs Chevy. The downside of threads like this is that they exclude other good options like Kuma and Woodstock on the catalytic side and SBI, Regency, Lopi etc. stoves on the non-cat side. Each has its strengths. Different strokes for different folks and homes. Thank goodness we have some good choices.

 

[bholler]

This thread has played out its course. It's like comparing Ford vs Chevy. The downside of threads like this is that they exclude other good options like Kuma and Woodstock on the catalytic side and SBI, Regency, Lopi etc. stoves on the non-cat side. Each has its strengths. Different strokes for different folks and homes. Thank goodness we have some good choices.

Well said. But regency now has more cat models than non cat. Some of their cat stoves are very good (pro line) some are questionable (cascades)

 

[begreen]

Well said. But regency now has more cat models than non cat. Some of their cat stoves are very good (pro line) some are questionable (cascades)

Yes, we have all new stoves from Hearthstone too. It will take a few years to see how well these new hybrids behave and stand up under real-world usage. I'm hesitant to recommend the new Woodstock Absolute Steel and the Jotul F500v3 for the same reason. In the meantime, we are fortunate to have several good stoves to consider.

 

[jdr7]

Do you have, or do you think you will get a heatpump in the future? I don’t need 24 hr cycles in the fall and spring because my heatpump handles everything really well and cheap enough whenever it’s 45 or above. And I will bank some heat in The house during the day and shut it off once it cools down outside. Last 3 nights it’s been below 40 (COLD for these parts in October). Warm the house up when it’s nice outside ( we keep it at about 73 and turn the heatpump down to 66 at night). Wait till 9 am to set it back to 73. This can save me 1/2 to a full cord of wood. Tax credits will be made a available next year and if you figure the cost of cats for 20 years and the tax credit your getting close to the cost for a 2 ton mini split install.

Don’t over think it. (Open damper) open door, Wood kindling, match, light, close door (close damper or set air air flow) repeat. Your houses air tightness and insulation will make a much bigger difference than PE or BK.

Yes, we're planning on installing mini splits. Something like the mitsubishi hyper heat, which are 100% effective at 5 degrees~ but 60-80% efficient below that even. They'll handle shoulder seasons perfectly, and even the whole home if we leave for a week or two in the dead of winter.

 

[jdr7]

This thread has played out its course. It's like comparing Ford vs Chevy. The downside of threads like this is that they exclude other good options like Kuma and Woodstock on the catalytic side and SBI, Regency, Lopi etc. stoves on the non-cat side. Each has its strengths. Different strokes for different folks and homes. Thank goodness we have some good choices.

Appreciate all the feedback. I'm sure for you all it's common discussion around here though, so I really appreciate everyone's insights. Thanks for everything 🙏

 

[EbS-P]

Yes, we're planning on installing mini splits. Something like the mitsubishi hyper heat, which are 100% effective at 5 degrees~ but 60-80% efficient below that even. They'll handle shoulder seasons perfectly, and even the whole home if we leave for a week or two in the dead of winter.

Don’t do it this year unless you have good local and state incentives. IRA act rules have yet to be written but should come out soonish to take effect next year.

But That fact would influence my choice. I like the heatpump wood heat combo (secondary or cat). I will always burn wood to keep my unit from going into defrost and kicking on an 8kw heat strip. But sometimes I’m lazy. Or busy.

 

[Ashful]

I think it was a good thread. It's not often we have a new prospective buyer pre-choose among the best in two competing technologies, for us to debate. Of course it excluded some other great brands (Woodstock, Regency, Jotul, etc.), but as far as our annual "cat vs. non-cat" battles go, this one was pretty tame and respectful.

 

[stoveliker]

I am not sure why it's called a battle. I may have been the partial cause of whatever the right name is of what happened here, but my goal was not to battle, my goal was to provide information. From a one-sided (mine) perspective I would call it "to correct misunderstandings". Evidently there are other perspectives that disagree with what I said, and the categorization I use in the previous sentence. However, when people choose, perspectives of users matter.

I do not enjoy conflict. I do have a strong reaction when things are posited that I (from my perspective) see as incorrect.

I hope that my use of perspective here reflects my intention to allow for other points of view as well. However much I may disagree with them

 

[Ashful]

I am not sure why it's called a battle.

I use the word battle due to history on this forum, more than any personal philosophy. But I can understand this history, because most of us (except maybe you and bholler ) are humans, who want to feel vindicated and validated in the choices we've made. "Non-cat is best, because it's the one I chose," or vice versa. It's only human nature.

 

[begreen]

Appreciate all the feedback. I'm sure for you all it's common discussion around here though, so I really appreciate everyone's insights. Thanks for everything 🙏

Good luck with the stove choice, finding one, and an installer. Update us on the installation and fire! Closing thread before it wanders off into the weeds.