Pacific Energy Summit Insert Installation Problem Provides Little Heat

[Coldinclev]

26 gauge sheet metal works perfectly. I will stuff roxul around the tube right above the block plate. I will also block off the ash dump. Thanks

 

[Grisu]

If you don't have the knockout covers anymore you could put the rest of the sheet metal over the carrying holes. Also, what I did was taking the metal and my template to a metalworks shop who cut it for me in 10 min for $10.

 

[Coldinclev]

Today I pulled the insert. Covered the back handle holes with the attached plates and removed the front air cover. One of the grommets was missing on the left side fan and the fan was banging on the side of the insert when it was running. I fixed that. I have a couple of questions. There was only one screw holding the SS tubing into the insert. I have inserted two more screws that were missing. I have attached a picture. Do you recommend putting some type of sealant around the tubing where it plugs into the insert in case there is a slight leak or shouldn't I worry about it? If so what should I use?

I bought some roxul R15 insulation to insulate the tubing above the insert where it enters the chimney as well as stuffing the ash dump. Making a block plate to fit a rather large cavity above my fireplace will be a ton of work. Can I just stuff the hole really well with the roxul and avoid putting a block plate in? Please let me know what you all think.

 

[begreen]

You're probably ok at the flue collar, but if you want you could smear in some furnace cement into the gaps.

You could pack Roxul up there and it would help quite a bit. A block off plate will stop insulation from falling down and will create a better air barrier, but you are already improving upon the original installation if you want to defer the block off plate till later and see how it works with the changes done so far. Just pack it well enough so that it won't all down on the insert top. Pack as much as you can up there, evenly around the liner.

 

[Hogwildz]

3 screws is about all you're going to get into the adapter, that should be fine. Same as I have.
Anything you put where the liner meets the stove outlet will either burn off, or crack and fall off. You should be good to go. If anything, it will suck air into the liner, not so much out, unless you get a reverse draft during cold start up, no big deal.
PUT THE BLOCK OFF PLATE IN! Do it now, and be done with it. The last thing you want to do, is pull that thing out yet again.
Remember, you can make the plate in as many pcs as you need to make it easier to install.
Some members even made a framing or cross braces out of steel angle fastened to the opening first, and then screwed the block off plate to the skeleton framing I'll call it. Great idea, that I wish I would have thought of before installing mine. Trust me, get it over with now. Roxul will help, but alone, will not stop air flow and air seal like a plate will.
Keep up the good work, you will be glad you did all of it.

 

[Coldinclev]

The hole is very large and I can only pull the stove out so far from the hearth so I have to crawl on top of it to do this but you talked me into it. I am doing this out of 26gauge sheet metal and will be cutting it with tin snips. I worry about the outside edge of the hole in the plate rubbing and eventually cutting into the ss tubing. Any suggestions on how to avoid this? Thanks

 

[Coldinclev]

Can I set the plate on top of the existing shelf where the damper was without fastening it down?

 

[Hogwildz]

Can I set the plate on top of the existing shelf where the damper was without fastening it down?

You can, but better to fasten. At the very least wedge it in place and silicone the entire perimeter edge to help hold it in place. I would fasten it at least with a few fasteners. You don't want it falling down and having to pull the stove out again to reset.
You can cut the opening where the liner passes through the block off plate a little larger than tight, and fill the gap with stove door rope gasket, works well. Just stuff in in the gap.

 

[mstoelton]

I worry about the outside edge of the hole in the plate rubbing and eventually cutting into the ss tubing. Any suggestions on how to avoid this?

Cut the hole small and then cut and fold the sharp edges away from the SS tube so the bent ends are closest to the SS tube.

 

[stevecip]

I'm having the same issues with my PE Summit insert installed 1/5/15. I've been in constant contact with the dealer/installer since installation. I even sent them a link to this thread which commented that they learned a lot from it. They were back at my home on 1/21/15 to close the handle holes in back of the stove and mount insulation above the stove like a blocking plate. I bought the summit to replace a 35 year old insert called the Conestoga. This stove was awesome except it could not receive a chimney liner and creosote would build up due to a smoke chamber that I could stand up in and a 10" by 10" flue for a total height of 22'. I think the smoke just had too much of an area to go through before exiting and it would condense a build deposits that I felt were unsafe. I didn't want to experience a devastating chimney fire and my research led me to the Summit.

The Conestoga was located in a closed off 400sqft section of finished basement with a stairway leading to the kitchen. It would keep us sweating when downstairs and keep the thermostat on the opposite side of the inside wall at the top of the stairs at 73F and overnight it would drop to 65-67F.

The Summit in the same location is keeping the 400sqft section of the basement at around 70F and the thermostat upstairs wont get past 62F. I mounted a thermometer on the stove above the door and it will read 450F and when reloading it feels much hotter than the Conestoga. The floor temp in front of the insert where the air hits directly is 130F. 6ft away from the insert the thermometer is 74F Beyond 6 ft you can't tell the insert is even there.

I am very frustrated and disappointed so far since this stove is supposed to heat 1800-3000sqft. When the dealer came out to measure and give me a price they thought this stove would be over doing and and suggested a smaller model.

From all of the research I have done this is supposed to be one of the best inserts out there. Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to get some heat out of this thing. I feel like I am wasting a lot of good wood, which is all white oak, red oak, hickory, mulberry, locust, and dogwood all measuring 20% to below 10% on my moisture meter.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Has the room air plate been removed on the insert? This stove will run differently than the old stove. Can you describe how you are setting the air control during the start of the burn and afterward? 10% seems too low for cordwood. Where and how is the moisture being measured on the split? Is the oak at least 2 yrs since it was split and stacked?

 

[stevecip]

Welcome. Has the room air plate been removed on the insert? This stove will run differently than the old stove. Can you describe how you are setting the air control during the start of the burn and afterward? 10% seems too low for cordwood. Where and how is the moisture being measured on the split? Is the oak at least 2 yrs since it was split and stacked?

They removed the room air plate from the underside of the stove. When I load the stove I leave the lever in front of the stove in the start position until the thermometer shows around 400F. Then i back it off about half way. Overnight I will turn it down all the way.Most of the oak is 12-18 months split and stacked. The old stove took 24" logs, since the Summit takes 18" I have to measure and cut them in my garage with a 12" radial arm saw. I am a good 2-3 seasons ahead with split and stacked wood so I know i am going to have to re-cut a lot of logs. I put my meter on the fresh cut ends to check them and they are 18-20% sometimes 22%. the logs that are already 18" or less are giving me the real low percentages on the ends.

 

[begreen]

Try closing down the air a bit more to encourage better secondary burning, even for the daytime burns. The stove will get hotter. We can run our stove with the air almost all the way closed most of the time unless the wood is not fully seasoned.
Your wood may not be quite dry inside yet. Moisture in not measured on the end grain. Take some of the thicker oak splits and resplit them. Then test for moisture on the freshly split face of the wood. Press the pins of the meter firmly into the wood. Or do a quick test with the resplit by putting the freshly exposed face of the wood up against your cheek. If it feels cool and damp, it's still drying out.

 

[stevecip]

I'll try that. Thanks

 

[mstoelton]

Stuffed insulation is not a replacement or adequate substitute for a sealed blocking plate in the damper area.

Virtually every complaint about an insert not heating well is due to A) wood that is not properly seasoned and dry and B) an installers refusal to install a proper blocking plate.

YOU NEED A BLOCKING PLATE!

Install one and you will get a much better heating experience.

 

[Coldinclev]

I have pulled my stove, closed off vents, pulled front cover, fixed the cap on top of chimney until new one comes in, closed off ash dump and stuffed chimney around ss liner with roxul 15. In the process of making a block plate but put the stove back in for now to see if there is a difference. Stove will have to be pulled in spring to fix some interior cracks I found in my chimney due to water leak. Will cement and waterproof chimney in spring. Then block plate will be permanently installed. Can't pull the stove completely out at this time and you need to do that to install block plate. I'm also burning hard maple instead of cherry. Found left side fan grommet fell off and fan was rattling. Had to replace grommet with something I rigged up. I will be firing this up today and will let you know if I get more heat.
Stevecip, you came to the right place. The knowledge base here is amazing. I'm was lucky to find this website.

 

[stevecip]

Thanks everyone, I have some work to do.

 

[begreen]

I will be firing this up today and will let you know if I get more heat.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[stevecip]

I am planning on making a blocking plate this weekend using the information provided here. Aside from making the plate and insulating is there anything that needs to be done to the insert itself? The installer closed the handle holes, but I am not sure about the outside air connection that I read about. My stove is using air drawn in from the front side. Is there anything on the back side that I should close off when I pull the insert out to do the blocking plate? Also, is there anything else I could do at this time to make the insert as efficient as possible?

 

[begreen]

I have pulled my stove, closed off vents, pulled front cover, fixed the cap on top of chimney until new one comes in, closed off ash dump and stuffed chimney around ss liner with roxul 15. In the process of making a block plate but put the stove back in for now to see if there is a difference. Stove will have to be pulled in spring to fix some interior cracks I found in my chimney due to water leak. Will cement and waterproof chimney in spring. Then block plate will be permanently installed. Can't pull the stove completely out at this time and you need to do that to install block plate. I'm also burning hard maple instead of cherry. Found left side fan grommet fell off and fan was rattling. Had to replace grommet with something I rigged up. I will be firing this up today and will let you know if I get more heat.
Stevecip, you came to the right place. The knowledge base here is amazing. I'm was lucky to find this website.

So how is the Summit doing now?

 

[stevecip]

So how is the Summit doing now?

Should I close off this opening on the back of the summit insert if I am using inside air?

 

[begreen]

Best to ask that one of Hogwildz, I haven't installed one. My guess would be that you can leave it uncovered with no effect. Just be sure to remove the room air supply cover as directed.

 

[Hogwildz]

I wouldn't cover the rear opening, I am pretty sure the air retrieved from the front inside air intake, is still introduced into the rear opening. Same as with outside air kit, just taking the air from inside.
Air goes in the rear regardless of the route the air is introduced(inside air or outside air), the only difference is how the air is introduced.
Leave it open, and just take the inside air intake front box cover off.

 

[Coldinclev]

Thanks to everyone's help and expertise (Hog, you really know your stuff, thanks) I am now very toasty in Cleveland. Stove gets very hot and now pours out the heat. 72 right now. The weather has been so bad here that the correct chimney cap will have to wait to be installed. Old one was siliconed down and still holding so far. Having a terra cotta put on once the weather breaks and I'm sure that will help even further. I will also insulate around the pipe up there before the terra cotta is put on. I know there are four bolts holding it down to the chimney pipe but do you guys recommend putting silicone on to seal it down or is there something better to use? Thanks again everyone.

I can also say that learning how to use the air control properly makes a big difference and that takes some getting used to.

 

[stevecip]

I wouldn't cover the rear opening, I am pretty sure the air retrieved from the front inside air intake, is still introduced into the rear opening. Same as with outside air kit, just taking the air from inside.
Air goes in the rear regardless of the route the air is introduced(inside air or outside air), the only difference is how the air is introduced.
Leave it open, and just take the inside air intake front box cover off.

Thanks. I'll leave it open. Finishing up my blocking plate now.