New Yukon-Eagle Husky Wood/coal/propane furnace on the way.....

[brenndatomu]

Hey, there ya are! I wondered what ever happened with this!

None of my H&A guys have ever seen a Yukon

Yeah, they must not do too much wood furnace work...flex duct on wood furnaces is not legal...or wise. Especially right off the supply plenum. If you have a power outage right after you throw a fresh load in...well...things can get pretty hot. Well beyond what the flex duct can handle.

Without a manometer it is pretty tough to set the baro exactly. You can get the Dwyer Mark II manometer on fleabay for $20 or so if you are willing to shop a bit. I have bought two that way now.

I am just not sure how to optimally adjust my intake and damper.

Intake? You mean the secondary air? 3-4 turns out is what Yukon says. I say set it however it seems to work the best for you. Damper? Intake damper should be wire to a FocusPro 6000 thermostat

flue temp was reading 180 on the vertical pipe above the T

I find it is hard to get an accurate flue temp downstream of the baro, flue gasses are too diluted with cold air, but not consistant due to fluctuating nature of a baro at work. Get your temp between the baro and the heat exchanger cleanout

 

[Motor7]

i do not have the gas side piped in yet....my priority was wood. I also think once I have it plumbed, I am going to let the gas company come over and test everything.....don't wanna go "boom".

If you look down at the floor I used some 3/4 emt under it to roll it into place. I think I am going to cut them off flush and leave them there, that way I can roll it back when cleaning the flue and chambers:

 

[Motor7]

Hey, there ya are! I wondered what ever happened with this!

Yeah, they must not do too much wood furnace work...flex duct on wood furnaces is not legal...or wise. Especially right off the supply plenum. If you have a power outage right after you throw a fresh load in...well...things can get pretty hot. Well beyond what the flex duct can handle.

Without a manometer it is pretty tough to set the baro exactly. You can get the Dwyer Mark II manometer on fleabay for $20 or so if you are willing to shop a bit. I have bought two that way now.


Intake? You mean the secondary air? 3-4 turns out is what Yukon says. I say set it however it seems to work the best for you. Damper? Intake damper should be wire to a FocusPro 6000 thermostat


I find it is hard to get an accurate flue temp downstream of the baro, flue gasses are too diluted with cold air, but not consistant due to fluctuating nature of a baro at work. Get your temp between the baro and the heat exchanger cleanout

Hmmm, had not thought of the flex pipe issue. So would it be sufficient to hard pipe it up to the flex in the trusses?

I'll hunt for a manometer on the bay.

Yep secondary...sorry.

Intake damper is wired to the 6000, so it's all auto then?

Ok, I will move my digital probe to the right of the baro. What temp will I be shooting for when it's settled down and running?

 

[brenndatomu]

I would probably go metal duct up to the trusses and then for 10' or so horizontally. I don't understand the science behind it, but ducts temps drop quite a bit whenever there is a 90* turn made.
Another thing that I did on mine so that I could sleep better above this monster was to install the emergency heat dump door that Yukon offers. It's only a lil more than $100, cheap peace of mind IMO. I have some less than 100% perfect duct clearances that could not be remedied with out jacking up my house and replacing it with a new one!
Yup, the 'stats should do everything except load the wood. BTW, I misspoke, the wood side is a FocusPro 5000, fossil fuel side is a 6000
Flue temps...ah man, mine are all over the place depending on what is going on at the time.
Fresh load of wood, with damper open...maybe 5-600* (internal), settles down to 300 or so after the damper is closed for a while then tapers off as the load burns down.
I can run as high as 800* or so internal flue temps when running the oil burner...

 

[Motor7]

Ok, I will have them come back and hard pipe it, that will be two and a half 90's to get into the trusses.

I had read the Safety Heat Dump info:

"A safety heat dump is necessary when a conventional up-flow furnace attaches to ductwork that pushes heated air under the floor through ducts. (Such as homes without basements). This is what the heating industry refers to as counter-flow. All wood/coal fuel furnaces must allow heated air to gravity flow upwards from the furnace through the ducts and into the home in the event of an electric power outage or furnace fan failure. Our heat dump has a temperature control device that allows the power failure register to open into the furnace room if the temperature in the furnace plenum becomes excessively hot."

Since I have a basement install, I opted not to get the Heat Dump. I guess I'll call Yukon and clarify this since now I am confused.......

 

[brenndatomu]

I would say that the heat dump door would be more of an insurance policy than a necessity in your situation. Metal duct is a real good idea though

 

[Motor7]

Ok, I found it while off a gogglin....The Heat Dump is designed for main floor furnace applications where duct work must go down from the furnace under the floor.

Definitely......... metal is on the way...thanks.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah, my place was originally designed with a forced air coal furnace so the ducts are capable of gravity heat, and our electric is really pretty reliable, guess I'm just not much of a gambler. The heat dump has been in place over a year now, haven't "used" it yet

 

[Motor7]

First all night burn:

PM outside temp 20F
Am outside temp 11F

10:30- House Temp 72F- loaded 6 small/med splits(3-4") on top of a fire past it's prime(load was level to the top of the vertical bricks)
5:30- House temp 68F- furnace was still warm, but only a few small coals remained on the grate, built a fire from kindling
5:45- blower kicked in

While I am a bit disappointed that I had to build a fire after only 6 hours, the house, only had a 4 degree swing all night. I would say it took half the wood my Hearthstone would have used to have the same swing. However the Hearthstone would have had a huge bed of coals which would not require a new fire. The old H-1 is also capable of going an easy 10 hrs on that bigger load and still have good coals...however the house would have more like a 6 degree swing. so if I can figure out how to get a couple of more hours out of my all night burn I will be happy-er.

With the H-1 & my computer fans under the ducts I could heat my house, but the bedroom and master bath were always 5 degrees colder than the great room. With the Yukon, the entire house is warm, no cold spots at all....the wife loves the fact that the bathroom is now warm. Just guessing , I might be using 1/4th less wood to get this better heat distribution.

 

[brenndatomu]

so if I can figure out how to get a couple of more hours out of my all night burn I will be happy-er.

Let the ashes build up a bit on the grates, couple inches or maybe a lil more, you'll figure it out. That helps a lot with holding coals. My first few fires in the fall (starting with a clean firebox) are short lived and not much coaling action until I build the ash bed back up. I suppose the fact that I'm burning softwoods at that point would be part of it too, but once I get the usual ash bed back, we are back to normal. Normal for me is at least 8 hours between the need to reload, 10-12 hours when the heat load is lighter.
The main skill here is to learn the balance between having the ash bed "loose" enough to let the intake air come up through, but not to the point of everything just falling through leaving a bare grate. Sometimes I will just rake one spot, let the fire breath through that.
I have a poker rod left over from the old coal furnace, it is basically just a 1/2" rod with a 3-4" 90* bent on the business end and a handle on the other. I will stick the rod down through the coals/ashes, laying the end flat on the grates, and work the bottom side of the ash a bit. That will knock the fine ash on through, but leave the coals for the most part.

Having the whole house warm is really nice. I only heated with a stove from the basement for one year before going to a furnace due to many cold spots on the main floor.

 

[Motor7]

Ran it almost 11 hrs last night. Zero coals and a 8 degree swing. I know that is a long time on a burn, and I have not installed the OAK yet, so could that have something to do with the heat loss?

 

[brenndatomu]

It could be. How tight is your house? The baro will definetly pull a lot of CFMs so you may as well control where that is coming from.
Any idea how many BTUS it takes to heat your house? Like maybe how much oil/gas you would use typically in a year (for heat)?

 

[Motor7]

Nope, only heated with wood since I finished building it 2 years ago. Our power bill averages $60 a month. I definitely need the manometer, since it looks like I am making some creosote. I closed the baro up to .03. No, the house is cedar log and not tight at all which is why I was thinking i could get away without the OAK...I could be wrong, since the furnace does pull a lot of air.

Silly idea, but I have a cat door about 12' away from the stove. I think I am going to pick up a couple of coils of dryer vent hose, stick one end through the cat door, the other in front of the firebox and see what happens.

I moved the digital thermo upstream from the baro...it's reading in the mid to low 200's on a settled in burn....I think I need to close the baro more?

It hit the 40's today and I am still feeding too much wood....it's warm in here

 

[brenndatomu]

CDAK, (catdoorairkit) I like it! Here's an idea for ya, run the dryer hose over to a bucket, connect the hose to the side of the bucket at the bottom. That will act as a "trap" for the cold air so it doesn't just "flood" your basement. It's more like the furnace/baro "pulls" the air out as needed.
As far as the flue temps, if that is a temp from when the damper has been closed for a while then yeah, that's probably about right. That is that monster heat exchanger doing it's job.
Best thing to control creosote is to have really dry wood and not overheat the house too much to where the thermostat never calls for heat. And the best way to do that is to not overload the firebox for how cold/warm it is. It take some time to learn because it is different for every house/climate. Once it gets more than 40* out I hafta shut the big dog down. It just makes a ton of creosote if you are trying to just make a little heat. At that point you need to fire the oil or gas burner side. Or do what I did, put a small stove in the fireplace upstairs, that is my heater when I just need a little heat.
If I remember correctly, the Yukon rep that used to be over on AS said that the thermostat calling for heat once in a while, opening the damper, getting the fire going hot every once in a while was how they deal with the creosote that is made while it is "idling". That doesn't work out too well when the house is already 5* over your set temp!

 

[Motor7]

Got a flashlight and started looking around...lot's of creosote and even with 3 sticks I could not get above 200 degrees. My wood is marginal on moisture content & all hardwood, 1 year dried but no hissing at all. This year I built a storage drying rack that holds 6 cord(all but one bay is full now):

When the damper is closed it was going right into smoulder mode. I farted around with the baro, then as a test just took it out and put in the block off plate. Flue temps are now between 250 and 300 on a medium fire I built to burn off some of that creosote.

Gotta get that manometer and getting the CDAK in...........

 

[brenndatomu]

Looks like you have a nice place there. Those wood racks ought to work out right well too!
If your wood is marginal then you are gonna have creosote, it is what it is until you can get ahead 2-3 years on your wood supply. I am finally 3 years ahead on mine and it makes a huge difference! One thing that can help to get you by until you can get through to truly dry wood is to cut up some old pallets and add a few pieces to each load. 1 or 2 ECO bricks (or whatever the local name is) added in can help things burn hotter too. There will still be some creosote though...only way around that is to burn clear through the load with the air wide open...probably not gonna happen

 

[Motor7]

I talked to Bill at Yukon today. He said that removing the Baro will have the opposite effect I thought...it will choke down the air to the wood even more. He also said that 99% of the time the outside air kit solves any smouldering problem, so I reckon I need to drill a 6" hole in my Log wall 9" up above the basement block wall. I have the kit, just was hesitant to drill the BIG hole.


Hooked up the propane line today and fired it up with the baro still out ...flue tems got to just under 700 before I shut things down. Hopefully it fried some of that cresote that had coated everything. Baro going back in now and I will re-fire the propane burner and see what happens.

 

[laynes69]

If I owned a log home, I don't think I could force myself to bore a 6" hole in the side of it. I've always questioned why they require such a large hole for make-up air. I assume it's due to the barometric damper taking massive amounts of air to dilute the draft to .03". I don't see how make up air solves smoldering. Most, if not all modern stoves use a 3" duct for outdoor air. Personally, before drilling a hole that size in the wall, I would crack a window. If things improve, then consider outside air. A draft speed of .03" is very low, even if that's what yukon requires. With their design of multiple baffles and a heat exchanger, it just seems like a low draft requirement.

 

[maple1]

What do you have for a chimney?

 

[brenndatomu]

I've always questioned why they require such a large hole for make-up air.

A draft speed of .03" is very low, even if that's what yukon requires. With their design of multiple baffles and a heat exchanger, it just seems like a low draft requirement.

8" flue...tons of air flow. I tried higher draft speeds, temps go crazy very quickly

 

[Motor7]

What do you have for a chimney?

26' straight run 8".....9' of Duravent dbl wall, 17' of Class A.

If I owned a log home, I don't think I could force myself to bore a 6" hole in the side of it. I've always questioned why they require such a large hole for make-up air. I assume it's due to the barometric damper taking massive amounts of air to dilute the draft to .03". I don't see how make up air solves smoldering. Most, if not all modern stoves use a 3" duct for outdoor air. Personally, before drilling a hole that size in the wall, I would crack a window. If things improve, then consider outside air. A draft speed of .03" is very low, even if that's what yukon requires. With their design of multiple baffles and a heat exchanger, it just seems like a low draft requirement.

Those are my thoughts exactly. Bill didn't seem to want to speculate on any other possible issue until I have the OAK hooked up. Even when I burned practically green wood(in stoves)I never saw creosote form so fast as I have running the Husky for just a few days.....it's down right scary.

I'm going to get to the bottom of this, manometer is in route, and I am borrowing a moisture meter to confirm my firewood is well under 20%.

 

[Motor7]

8" flue...tons of air flow. I tried higher draft speeds, temps go crazy very quickly

You are burning mostly softwoods right? On oak, beech, & hickory with the baro on .02 or no baro and the hole blocked off makes no difference in flue temps.

Running on propane now to stay warm. Flue temps hit about 650ish. I see lots of yellow flame so I am pretty sure the burner needs adjusting. There is no instructions to do this...it says to have a "professional furnace person' do this. Not even sure where to start looking for a "pro furnace guy" in this neck of the woods.

 

[Motor7]

One more thing. When the intake damper is closed, I am pretty sure the only air the firebox gets then is the secondary air from the dial up at the top of the firebox. If this is the case, there is insufficient air to feed a fire and keep temps above 250 degrees. Bill at Yukon confirmed that the damper is either open or closed...there is no other setting. Even my 1986 Hearthstone has a Bi-metallic coil that closes down the intake air on a hot fire, then opens it back up as the temps drop. It's a stupid simple system but the thing works perfect.

 

[brenndatomu]

You are burning mostly softwoods right?

No, mostly hardwoods.

On oak, beech, & hickory with the baro on .02 or no baro and the hole blocked off makes no difference in flue temps.

That's odd...

I see lots of yellow flame so I am pretty sure the burner needs adjusting. There is no instructions to do this...it says to have a "professional furnace person' do this. Not even sure where to start looking for a "pro furnace guy" in this neck of the woods.

I'd go ahead and mess with the air a bit, if it is yellow you can't make it much worse can you? Even if it isn't perfect, I would think you can easily make it better. I'm no expert on this but I believe your are looking for a blue flame that has a "smooth" sound to it.
I would find it hard to believe there is anywhere in the states that there isn't a HVAC (furnace) guy available, everybody needs furnace repair sooner or later...heck, even Floridians!

 

[Motor7]

More info;

I was out of town for a while and my wife was running it on propane while I was gone. The cat door trick definitely helps the burn so I am installing the OAK asap. Tested my wood and it is between 14 and 17, not optimum but not soggy. My biggest problem is I am over feeding the furnace, it's gets to temp upstairs and the intake door shuts which smoulders the wood. So, as suggested I have to build smaller and fewer fires, & after feeding the wood hog Hearthstone, this will take some getting used to.

Now I have a new problem, the day after I got home, the gas burner would not come on. Blower does, but no ignition at all after that. The Flume Sensor has tripped and locked out ignition. Tried to reset it and it tripps immediately. I have no idea of why this happened so I will be calling them today.