New Caddy Advanced owner

[LogCabinFever]

Well, since everyone is getting into the season and posting their installs, I figured I would do mine. There's not as many Caddy Advanced owners on here and so I'll share mine.

I finally got moving after doing my research.

First, out with the old dragon!

And in with the new:

More updates to follow. My setup is going with the ECM motor and a top return, which is unique to the Caddy I believe. This works best for my setup. I have a 1600sqft ranch style log home, that is planning to get an addition to make it around 2500 sqft in the next couple years. Hopefully, it doesn't put out too much heat with the smaller area until then. I've decided to add a return line and a supply line to bring heat to the finished part of the basement. We've wanted heat down there, but didn't bother since the Jensen radiated so much heat. Everything that I've read says that these new units don't radiate that much heat, and so I decided to add some duct to the basement.

So far, I'm very impressed with the quality of construction. It's a very nice unit. One downside is that it is quite a bit larger than the old Jensen and so it takes up a bit more room. The loading door is also quite a bit lower than that of the Jensen, and so I'll jack it up higher on blocks so that I'm not killing my back.

By the way, a Jensen furnace weighs about 340lbs (fun fact). That's what the scrap yard weighed it as. On the other hand, the Caddy had a shipping weight of 730lbs (pallet and packaging included). It's hefty.

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Good to hear from a fellow Caddy owner. Ours is a 2016 model, it predates the advanced. I am really happy with my furnace. It has worked perfectly for our 1700 square foot ranch. I do not have any duct outlets in the basement. We have an open stairway, but the furnace is tied into the cold air return ducts. Our basement stays cooler, but actually quite comfortable. The furnace does radiate some pretty good heat from the front off of the door, but everything else stays cool. I love sitting in front of it soaking up the heat and watching the fire. Makes me smile to think about it, its 3 degrees outside so I might have to go down and fire...

I'll be paying attention to how the advanced works for you. I think you are going to like it!

 

[LogCabinFever]

Good to hear from a fellow Caddy owner. Ours is a 2016 model, it predates the advanced. I am really happy with my furnace. It has worked perfectly for our 1700 square foot ranch. I do not have any duct outlets in the basement. We have an open stairway, but the furnace is tied into the cold air return ducts. Our basement stays cooler, but actually quite comfortable. The furnace does radiate some pretty good heat from the front off of the door, but everything else stays cool. I love sitting in front of it soaking up the heat and watching the fire. Makes me smile to think about it, its 3 degrees outside so I might have to go down and fire...

I'll be paying attention to how the advanced works for you. I think you are going to like it!

Thanks Dennis! Glad you're enjoying the furnace in a similar size home. That's been my main concern, that the furnace isn't choked out. The return plenum is about twice the size of the one on the old Jensen. I love the idea of being able to watch the fire. I was initially thinking of getting the Kuuma, but the price was almost double. In addition, you can watch the fire and the heat exchangers are easy to access and clean. This will be my first experience with secondary burn.

Also, SBI had initially promised a combo unit with propane and wood in one unit, packaged as a proposed option for the Advanced CR (Combo Ready). This was attractive to me, since I have an old LP furnace and I liked the idea of two furnaces in a smaller package. Well, after waiting 3+ years, they came out with the Advanced CR. However, propane was not offered with the unit. Instead, it can only be paired in series with another LP furnace. I think they ran into code and regulatory restrictions, when developing the furnace. Bummer.

So I went with the regular Advanced.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Update:

She's all jacked up on blocks! Wanted it even higher, but didn't have the headroom. Was able to use some car scissor jacks and a floor jack and slowly work it up.

Also, was able to do a couple small initial burns to cure the paint before hooking up the ductwork:

Wasn't sure if I was supposed to plug in the blower with the initial burns, but I did. Seemed to not get hot enough at first, but once it did, the flames were rolling nicely. Entertaining to watch for sure.

Chimney liner is obviously in along with some stove pipe, all from Rockford chimney supply. Great guys to work with by the way! Ordered the stove pipe and it arrived only two days later! And the stove pipe is rugged.

On the chimney side of things - New cleanout door and thimble to go along with the stove pipe:

Also mounted the Manometer:

I initially bought the manometer to keep an eye on my draft, since my chimney is around 25ft high. I'm not sure if i'll need the barometric damper yet, but we'll check. Might need some assistance from some experts on here when the time comes. But I'm also realizing that I can use the manometer to measure static pressure in my ductwork, since it comes with some ports to install. Hopefully that's not too tricky. The furnace manual wants between 0.2 in w.c. and 0.5 in w.c. Seems pretty narrow but I'm a total rookie at this.

Stay tuned for ductwork update. I've tackled everything myself, except moving the unit and the ductwork. Sheetmetal guy did some work yesterday, so I'll catch you up later today.

 

[sloeffle]

Don't drive yourself crazy chasing static pressure in your duct work. When I had my Caddy ( circa 2009 ) I was seeing pretty high static pressure in the round duct the from the plenum on the Caddy that fed into the duct work in my house. I added an 8" round duct with a 24V inline damper to the plenum of my Caddy along with the 14" round duct that I had and it changed the static pressure very minimally.

 

[travis8352]

Thanks Dennis! Glad you're enjoying the furnace in a similar size home. That's been my main concern, that the furnace isn't choked out. The return plenum is about twice the size of the one on the old Jensen. I love the idea of being able to watch the fire. I was initially thinking of getting the Kuuma, but the price was almost double. In addition, you can watch the fire and the heat exchangers are easy to access and clean. This will be my first experience with secondary burn.

Also, SBI had initially promised a combo unit with propane and wood in one unit, packaged as a proposed option for the Advanced CR (Combo Ready). This was attractive to me, since I have an old LP furnace and I liked the idea of two furnaces in a smaller package. Well, after waiting 3+ years, they came out with the Advanced CR. However, propane was not offered with the unit. Instead, it can only be paired in series with another LP furnace. I think they ran into code and regulatory restrictions, when developing the furnace. Bummer.

So I went with the regular Advanced.

The one thing that looks cool about the CR is it seems like the whole unit is taller then the heat commander and the advanced. Sorta the height yours is now that its on blocks. I have a heat commander and another foot taller would be cool but honestly with the low ceiling in my old farmhouse basement, i think im maxed out on height lol

 

[LogCabinFever]

Don't drive yourself crazy chasing static pressure in your duct work. When I had my Caddy ( circa 2009 ) I was seeing pretty high static pressure in the round duct the from the plenum on the Caddy that fed into the duct work in my house. I added an 8" round duct with a 24V inline damper to the plenum of my Caddy along with the 14" round duct that I had and it changed the static pressure very minimally.

Got it. I'll keep that in mind. I just don't want to overstress the motor overtime. That's crazy that an 8" and 14" ducts didn't change it much. I also didn't see anything in the manual about if being out of static range affects warranty, which is good.

The one thing that looks cool about the CR is it seems like the whole unit is taller then the heat commander and the advanced. Sorta the height yours is now that its on blocks. I have a heat commander and another foot taller would be cool but honestly with the low ceiling in my old farmhouse basement, i think im maxed out on height lol

Ya I saw that. I didn't realize until recently that the CR is basically a taller and more complex version. Their website lists the width as quite a bit larger but the diagram shows that the widths are identical. When I was looking at it, I called SBI to find out more about the CR. From talking to them, unless you want an automated system or electrical backup, there's really no point to getting the CR. For me, it's easy just to switch the baffles to propane when I need to switch furnaces, so it wasn't worth the extra $1500+.

It is surprising that the loading door isn't much more than a foot off of the bottom of the furnace, but I suppose they need to make head room for the heat exchangers. How do you like your heat commander?

 

[travis8352]

Got it. I'll keep that in mind. I just don't want to overstress the motor overtime. That's crazy that an 8" and 14" ducts didn't change it much. I also didn't see anything in the manual about if being out of static range affects warranty, which is good.


Ya I saw that. I didn't realize until recently that the CR is basically a taller and more complex version. Their website lists the width as quite a bit larger but the diagram shows that the widths are identical. When I was looking at it, I called SBI to find out more about the CR. From talking to them, unless you want an automated system or electrical backup, there's really no point to getting the CR. For me, it's easy just to switch the baffles to propane when I need to switch furnaces, so it wasn't worth the extra $1500+.

It is surprising that the loading door isn't much more than a foot off of the bottom of the furnace, but I suppose they need to make head room for the heat exchangers. How do you like your heat commander?

I love it, its my first go at wood heating on my own. Been around a daka for years at my parents place though but i love the heat commander. Burns are very clean. Me and my dad have similar chimneys and its quite amazing how much cleaner mine is with the heat commander and burn times are awesome for my lifestyle. Its nice loading it and being able to be gone for 12 hours and have plenty of coals left for a relite

 

[brenndatomu]

I initially bought the manometer to keep an eye on my draft, since my chimney is around 25ft high. I'm not sure if i'll need the barometric damper yet, but we'll check.

I'm betting you will.

The furnace manual wants between 0.2 in w.c. and 0.5 in w.c. Seems pretty narrow but I'm a total rookie at this.

Weird...all the SBI furnaces I've seen were -0.04 to -0.06"

Don't drive yourself crazy chasing static pressure in your duct work.

Agreed...as long as your duct temps are satisfactory (not too low/not heating house well, and not crazy high) pressure means very little to nothing

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Thanks Dennis! Glad you're enjoying the furnace in a similar size home. That's been my main concern, that the furnace isn't choked out. The return plenum is about twice the size of the one on the old Jensen. I love the idea of being able to watch the fire. I was initially thinking of getting the Kuuma, but the price was almost double. In addition, you can watch the fire and the heat exchangers are easy to access and clean. This will be my first experience with secondary burn.

Also, SBI had initially promised a combo unit with propane and wood in one unit, packaged as a proposed option for the Advanced CR (Combo Ready). This was attractive to me, since I have an old LP furnace and I liked the idea of two furnaces in a smaller package. Well, after waiting 3+ years, they came out with the Advanced CR. However, propane was not offered with the unit. Instead, it can only be paired in series with another LP furnace. I think they ran into code and regulatory restrictions, when developing the furnace. Bummer.

So I went with the regular Advanced.

I had a similar experience. Looked at the Kumma, but the price was much higher, and I had to ship it, find someone to install it, etc. The Caddy was offered by the local HVAC company that was already doing the furnace and air so it was really an easy choice. And Caddy has a door to watch the fire!
Mine is paired in series downstream from my LP furnace. That works great. I set the t-stat well below my target temp so it hardly ever runs. Mostly only if we are not home. In my case the LP furnace fan also is the fan for the Caddy. Not sure if you can still do that with the advanced, but it works really well in my setup.

 

[3fordasho]

Replaced my 10 year old Tundra with a caddy advanced, ECM blower and top return. Several weeks burning now, the larger blower over the Tundra really makes a difference in my expansive duct work and 3400 sq ft.

 

[brenndatomu]

Replaced my 10 year old Tundra with a caddy advanced, ECM blower and top return. Several weeks burning now, the larger blower over the Tundra really makes a difference in my expansive duct work and 3400 sq ft.

So what's your impression of it overall, compared to your modded/dialed in Tundra?

 

[3fordasho]

So what's your impression of it, compared to your modded/dialed in Tundra?

wife says the house is much warmer, I can feel air flow out of the most distant vents, and so far I see no need to modify anything.
Baro damper installed this time around, no need to worry about runaway like the Tundra would do on a cold windy night.

FWIW the Tundra was still in pretty good shape, the typical cracks in the front around the door were barely noticeable and overall it was still pretty solid, returned it to OEM configuration and sold it for $500, I didn't want to be responsible for selling a modified furnace.

I did consider a Kumma but the Caddy and ECM blower were still about I/2 the cost vs the Kumma (think I got an unusually good deal that I have not seen since). Mainly made the switch because of the tax credit and deal I came across.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Replaced my 10 year old Tundra with a caddy advanced, ECM blower and top return. Several weeks burning now, the larger blower over the Tundra really makes a difference in my expansive duct work and 3400 sq ft.

LOVE it. That's a good size house. Does the blower ever need to kick up from Speed 1? Did you get a chance to measure duct static pressure, and where are you taking the measurements? Is it me or does the return seem small?

I like the heat dump right next to the HPWH. I'll bet that helps a lot!

 

[LogCabinFever]

0.2" to 0.5" is specified for pressure in the duct. Correct that stove pipe is -0.04" to -0.06".

 

[LogCabinFever]

Update:

Contractor did some work on the duct. Not done yet; he'll add some more return.

It's tight:

Didn't like the flimsy 1" carboard filter that it came with. So, I had a housing rack custom-made for a nice meaty filter.

Honeywell claimed that it only added 0.16" W.C which seemed low for a Merv 11 (thoughts?). So, I checked it (see the mano-ports in the blower/return housing), but I checked it at the wrong CFM. SBI says that if plugged in w/o a thermostat, the blower activates at Speed 4 (~1900 CFM), which is not the correct speed to check it. It needs to be checked at Speed 1 (875 CFM). The Tech Rep says I could simulate the call for heat by taking a hair dryer to the plenum probe and get it up to 130 degrees. Meh, I'll just hook everything up and check it. If it's too high, maybe I'll step down in filter.

 

[3fordasho]

LOVE it. That's a good size house. Does the blower ever need to kick up from Speed 1? Did you get a chance to measure duct static pressure, and where are you taking the measurements? Is it me or does the return seem small?

I like the heat dump right next to the HPWH. I'll bet that helps a lot!

I have not noticed the blower kicking up in speed, perhaps I have not noticed. I have not checked static pressure yet. There is another 8" return that you can't see in the picture so basically a 12" round and 8" round for return, 2x8" and 2x6" round for supply. Overall much better airflow than I had with the previous Tundra set up. The HPWH is pretty happy in that location, but the heat dump is really a access in the plenum to slide in a 24x24" water to air heat exchanger with water supplied by my woodboiler. Currently it's just blocked off and no HX exchanger installed, a future addition perhaps.

 

[LogCabinFever]

And it's up and running!

But I gotta say: I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be.
1) People have talked about how quiet it is, but this thing seems every bit as loud as my old Jensen. There's a whistling coming from the ash pan area. But I remember that I double checked all the screws, so I'm not sure why the whistling.
2) There's air leaking around the HX door and ash pan door when closed tightly, even though there's a rope seal. Is that normal?
3) The heat output doesn't seem that much better than the old unit either and the pressure out of the vents might actually be less than before (like someone exhaling). I took a reading of static pressure near the blower housing and it was about 0.13", which seems kind of low. Not sure how to adjust that other than up the blower speed or close a few vents. Maybe I'll try it without the filter and see if it's the filter holding it back?

I'm wondering if she's just not running right. Stove pipe draft is right at 0.06". That's without a baro attached. It didn't vary a whole lot, occassionally bumping to 0.07". I'll put a baro damper in and see if I can bring it down a bit. One other thing I noticed, is that a couple minutes after reload, it kicked into "overtemp" mode, with the lights blinking fast. Not sure what provoked it. Wood is a mix of ash and oak. I filled it, but not to the gills. Can't really stuff it like with the old furnace, since the opening is smaller and the secondaries are in the way.

I took some temp readings with a laser gun during peak burn:
HX - 310 F
Stove Pipe (single wall) - 220 F

From what I've read, that means my stack temp is around 440 F, which seems in range.

What do you think? I would think I'd be getting more pressure out of these vents. I can get supply and return duct sizing if needed. Maybe I'm choking it?

 

[brenndatomu]

Modern wood stoves/furnaces are not your father's Oldsmobile...they're better, but different, very different.
I pay zero attention to static pressure...modern furnaces will have lower duct temps, and generally the air flow will be lower too...partially because your ducts may be oversized. My original coal converted to oil furnace had a HUGE blower with (4) 20"x20" filters! It was quiet though.
Your old furnace was the hare, the new one is the tortoise...who wins the race?
Dunno what the high temp alarm was about, but keeping that draft at or under 0.06" will help with that (assuming the alarm was correct) make sure the door is latching well...the Heat Commander I set up was really loose and had to be adjusted right away.

 

[travis8352]

Something could be wrong if its giving you an overtemp alarm but im not sure. I have loaded my heat commander to the max with extremely dry wood and never had an overtemp alarm. Im not as well versed in these things as the other guys though

 

[Gearhead660]

Update:

Contractor did some work on the duct. Not done yet; he'll add some more return.

It's tight:

View attachment 333602
View attachment 333603

Didn't like the flimsy 1" carboard filter that it came with. So, I had a housing rack custom-made for a nice meaty filter.

View attachment 333604
View attachment 333605

Honeywell claimed that it only added 0.16" W.C which seemed low for a Merv 11 (thoughts?). So, I checked it (see the mano-ports in the blower/return housing), but I checked it at the wrong CFM. SBI says that if plugged in w/o a thermostat, the blower activates at Speed 4 (~1900 CFM), which is not the correct speed to check it. It needs to be checked at Speed 1 (875 CFM). The Tech Rep says I could simulate the call for heat by taking a hair dryer to the plenum probe and get it up to 130 degrees. Meh, I'll just hook everything up and check it. If it's too high, maybe I'll step down in filter.

Is your flue pipe going thru the return duct?