Neighbors, Township, Meeting
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the drama was incredible
This lady really should have been an actress, crying, coughing, wheezing, reading from her diary, reading letters from colleagues and students at school about her deteriorating condition (she's a psychology professor)..... ad nausium.
The state and township were reasonable and had constructive suggestions - but made it very clear there was nothing they could do to make us stop burning.
The township is going to inspect thier heating and cooling system - after my suggestion that their house is in a vacuum and that's the ONLY reason smoke of any volume would be coming into thier house.
The state suggested possibly a different style of rain cap (to keep the smoke going up, instead of sideways) and possibly and extension of the chimney
at the complainers' expense.
I kept my cool.
I stated what we did to help the situation - putting in the new low emissions stove to which she immediately commented -- "it didn't help."
they said numerous times that they have no problems with us outside of the smoke issue - and only when the wind is from the east.
when asked about the other wood burners in the neighborhood they stated emphatically that they had no problems at all until we moved in.
coincidentally - they had their furnace replaced about the same time we moved in.
we'll see what happens - The township supervisor is speaking with the state guys now - and will get back to us via email in the next few days.
I'm not apposed to having another few feet of stainless pipe sticking out of my chimney with some funky cap on it if it will shut them up
- but I'm not paying a dime for it!
Overall - I hope something constructive comes of it..... I have to say the devilish side of me would laugh my azzzzzz off if they find out their heating system is actually at fault for pulling in outside air!
Well - I'm going to have a Jack and Coke to lower my blood pressure --- and sit by my blazing hot stove with a clear conscience - (The wind is from the west)
Thanks for all your support!
the drama was incredible
This lady really should have been an actress, crying, coughing, wheezing, reading from her diary, reading letters from colleagues and students at school about her deteriorating condition (she's a psychology professor)..... ad nausium.
The state and township were reasonable and had constructive suggestions - but made it very clear there was nothing they could do to make us stop burning.
The township is going to inspect thier heating and cooling system - after my suggestion that their house is in a vacuum and that's the ONLY reason smoke of any volume would be coming into thier house.
The state suggested possibly a different style of rain cap (to keep the smoke going up, instead of sideways) and possibly and extension of the chimney
at the complainers' expense.
I kept my cool.
I stated what we did to help the situation - putting in the new low emissions stove to which she immediately commented -- "it didn't help."
they said numerous times that they have no problems with us outside of the smoke issue - and only when the wind is from the east.
when asked about the other wood burners in the neighborhood they stated emphatically that they had no problems at all until we moved in.
coincidentally - they had their furnace replaced about the same time we moved in.
we'll see what happens - The township supervisor is speaking with the state guys now - and will get back to us via email in the next few days.
I'm not apposed to having another few feet of stainless pipe sticking out of my chimney with some funky cap on it if it will shut them up
- but I'm not paying a dime for it!
Overall - I hope something constructive comes of it..... I have to say the devilish side of me would laugh my azzzzzz off if they find out their heating system is actually at fault for pulling in outside air!
Well - I'm going to have a Jack and Coke to lower my blood pressure --- and sit by my blazing hot stove with a clear conscience - (The wind is from the west)
Thanks for all your support!
I would have stopped burning for a couple of days and asked them at the meeting if the new improvements you made in the last two days helped any. Which of course they would have sworn hadn't made any difference.
Now BB suggestion would have really been a riot. Probably worthy of a film short. Were you lucky enought to have this broadcasted on the local cable station? Any word on the signs in the cars parked on your front lawn?
Wouldn't that be incredible if their OWN furnace was monoxiding them? You might have just saved their sorry hides! Way to go! Will they ever thank you??.....
Just don't get sloppy drunk tonight and go off on them. That JD makes me do things I wouldn't ordinarily do....
Just don't get sloppy drunk tonight and go off on them. That JD makes me do things I wouldn't ordinarily do....
milner351 said:
Sounds like she could benefit from counseling. In any event, it's really her problem, not yours.
The crazy thing is they claim to notice no improvement compared to previous years....
so they are trying to convince me the summit puts out the same smoke as the 80's smoke dragon...
logic --- they aint got it!
so they are trying to convince me the summit puts out the same smoke as the 80's smoke dragon...
logic --- they aint got it!
Actually there wouldn't be an improvement..
That is if they are receiving the smoke from the OWB that is near by and there house is drawing the smoke inwards.
But, way to go how you handled it.
Very professional.
That is if they are receiving the smoke from the OWB that is near by and there house is drawing the smoke inwards.
But, way to go how you handled it.
Very professional.
There is something magic about professors, I have seen it many times over the years clearing traffic at the US Canadian border. For some reason they just have to be so secretive about where ever they have been and doing. Of course after a while you know the type right off and that they are just some knucklehead and not a smuggler but it always has amazed me just how much of a PITA they are compared to any other group of people. Ask 2 questions and they have to be as evasive as they possibly can be. I never could figure them out. Of course they aren't all like that not by a long shot but it sure seems the extreme liberals just feel they aren't subject to anyones rules but theirs. You have my sympathy old boy because its obvious that you are dealing with one of those. It sounds like she is due for a move to the country where she won't be bothered by others. Hell, she might even be bucking for a disability retirement and using you for part of the excuse. It wouldn't be the first time. Keep the faith and work the system just like she is doing.
I have to thank all you again for helping me see the humor in this.
I only had one whiskey and coke, so there won't be any drunken yelling at the neighbors, and for now the wind is from the west - so, even throwing in a tire wouldn't hurt them at this point.
I think it's great that the township is going to inspect their heating system -- that shows that they at least listened to what I had to say - feel it's reasonable and are acting on it.
I don't mind a proposed modification to our chimney or rain cap -- as long as we don't have to pay for it, install it, and hopefully it won't make cleaning our chimney too much more difficult.
I only had one whiskey and coke, so there won't be any drunken yelling at the neighbors, and for now the wind is from the west - so, even throwing in a tire wouldn't hurt them at this point.
I think it's great that the township is going to inspect their heating system -- that shows that they at least listened to what I had to say - feel it's reasonable and are acting on it.
I don't mind a proposed modification to our chimney or rain cap -- as long as we don't have to pay for it, install it, and hopefully it won't make cleaning our chimney too much more difficult.
I like the way you think!Driz said:
Uncovering her primary motive in all of this would be very enlightening.
I must say I am surprised that no other woodburning neighbors were involved. Time after time I have seen smoke outside my windows and run out to see if it was my chimney. It is always a neighbor down the street smoking away and the wind sends it right into my house.
Anyway- luck with the furnace inspection.
You are fighting for all of us out there and my thoughts are with you!
Driz said:
Watch it, Driz!! I'm sure I could make all sorts of generalizations about "conservatives", too. But, I've learned that's not fair. A few bad apples in one group (I won't mention any names) don't make the entire classification of people completely worthless.
People are people, there are complete A-holes across the board. Yes, this lady is one of them for sure.
Does anyone here have any experience or know of a place that sells these "no loss rain caps" or some other fancy type of rain cap that would help the smoke continue skyward from the chimney instead of sending it horizontally first?
We have the typical chimney cap design - a flat "roof" held up by four "walls" of expanded stainless steel mesh.
We have the typical chimney cap design - a flat "roof" held up by four "walls" of expanded stainless steel mesh.
Mike from Athens said:
Still, there is something about dealing with that particular slant of professor. Normal ones are just normal and that s about it. There is no reason in the world why someone needs to be so damned secretive. I mean why, whats the point? A few words and down the road thats it. Why be like that just to prove some foolish point? Thats one thing in what I do, you really get to sort out all sorts of things that no one else ever gives second thoughts to. After a while one really gets to be able to read deeply between the lines and almost instantly pick out what is out of place. It is a gift and a curse depending on the situation . We get the same sort of vibes from cheating husbands and wives or gay folks. Its really weird when you have someone standing there exuding guilt like radiant heat and there seems no reason why. My favorite was a guy and gal both married back in town for a reunion. Flew into town yesterday, quick trip across the border overnight for just a few hours. Oh now I see you aren't married to each other, but married to each others special somebody and sneaking off for the night. Now I see and we better get you outta here before your guys are missed. I even had a priest once who had a brochure for one of the local sex clubs. We thought it was a drug runner dressed up like a priest, who is to know. I have seen a lot of that sort of thing over the years.
Thats the way it is for the liberal professor types except its more evasive defiance. I really feel for the guy as he is surely dealing with a real professional victim. One that likes to get up there in front of people and knows how to get a point across right or wrong. Take a look at some of the more politically oriented preachers sometime. They manage to spew poo and make it taste like peanut butter to those with like minded views. Dangerous people to be sure and remember right or wrong does not matter, its what they want that counts. Thats why our friend here has to be very careful in his responses and actions to this woman. One little misstep and she gets what she wants. FWIW I can't much stand strict conservative any more than extreme liberals. What worries me is when they join forces together for opposing reasons like with the recent wave of Alien Amnesty legislations guaranteed to break our social security system . Dig into the details of those and you will be amazed and awed. Scary stuff makes this poor guys troubles seem tame by comparison.
Watch it Driz, or we will start talking about our dealings with engineers....or cops, or any of the assorted other characters that make up our melting pot!
Things are best worked out when each person is looked at as an equal and the shoe is placed on the other foot. It sounds like there really is a problem somewhat - and although it might not be the stove in question, it is somewhat typical to blame it on that first go-around.
Every time I try to blame and generalize I end up wrong, so I try to with hold judgment until a scene plays out.
As to special kinds of caps or chimney extensions.....there is no type of cap that will help with this problem at all. The chimney can probably be extended using additional liner and one of my extendaflue casings around it. As to whether that will help is up in the air, so to speak.
CO and CO2 detectors are extremely sensitive these days. The combustible gas detectors we used at the shop could detect the gases coming out of your ear! It might be wise for the lady to have some instrumentation to see if there is even a slight change in anything. From afar, it seems like either her system/house is malfunctioning OR that the problem is psychosomatic. When you consider that sugar pills work as well as anti-depressants, this is easy to see! As a for instance, she might get a tiny whiff of wood smoke smell (from you or elsewhere) and then a SWITCH in her mind goes off and relates that to bad experiences.....which amplifies the smell to something horrible.
Sounds strange, but most of us work this way. Once we have had a bad experience, it is easy to bring it back with very little stimuli.
Things are best worked out when each person is looked at as an equal and the shoe is placed on the other foot. It sounds like there really is a problem somewhat - and although it might not be the stove in question, it is somewhat typical to blame it on that first go-around.
Every time I try to blame and generalize I end up wrong, so I try to with hold judgment until a scene plays out.
As to special kinds of caps or chimney extensions.....there is no type of cap that will help with this problem at all. The chimney can probably be extended using additional liner and one of my extendaflue casings around it. As to whether that will help is up in the air, so to speak.
CO and CO2 detectors are extremely sensitive these days. The combustible gas detectors we used at the shop could detect the gases coming out of your ear! It might be wise for the lady to have some instrumentation to see if there is even a slight change in anything. From afar, it seems like either her system/house is malfunctioning OR that the problem is psychosomatic. When you consider that sugar pills work as well as anti-depressants, this is easy to see! As a for instance, she might get a tiny whiff of wood smoke smell (from you or elsewhere) and then a SWITCH in her mind goes off and relates that to bad experiences.....which amplifies the smell to something horrible.
Sounds strange, but most of us work this way. Once we have had a bad experience, it is easy to bring it back with very little stimuli.
Yea, the fact that they claim the summit has made no improvement over the old smoke dragon to me just proves they are liars and completely unreasonable.
No burning would have been a good tactic, though my wife would not have wanted to run the furnace for that long
Oh well - they'll have a break this weekend - we'll be out of town....
You can't pick your neighbors - unless you buy so much land you don't have any - and I'm not in a position to do that.
However, I will be in a position to put in a nice white vinyl 6ft tall privacy fence on the lot line on their side of our house this spring!
No burning would have been a good tactic, though my wife would not have wanted to run the furnace for that long
Oh well - they'll have a break this weekend - we'll be out of town....
You can't pick your neighbors - unless you buy so much land you don't have any - and I'm not in a position to do that.
However, I will be in a position to put in a nice white vinyl 6ft tall privacy fence on the lot line on their side of our house this spring!
Do your neighbors know you'll be out of town? This weekend could be a great time to test them.
You'll be out of town not burning, and if they still think there was no difference, you can tell them, we weren't burning, we weren't even home! Now go pick on somebody else!
Web has a great point. I think I remember hearing something in school about how our sense of smell is connected to memory. I have to say, for me personally, it's true. The smell of something can easily trigger a memory and take me back in time.
-SF
You'll be out of town not burning, and if they still think there was no difference, you can tell them, we weren't burning, we weren't even home! Now go pick on somebody else!
Web has a great point. I think I remember hearing something in school about how our sense of smell is connected to memory. I have to say, for me personally, it's true. The smell of something can easily trigger a memory and take me back in time.
-SF
It seems you are getting to the other side of this. One can only hope that they will find that their furnace is a problem, it will cost them a bundle to fix it and the original installer will tell them its past the warrantee period. And, that you are able to find a local company that wants a bundle to install the cap and extension, that they agree to is and get exactly what they deserve.
In the meantime, have a nice away weekend, relax and live life with zeal!!
In the meantime, have a nice away weekend, relax and live life with zeal!!
Hi Milner, Check out this video on proper burning techniques, paying close attention to starting/restarting the fire (sounds like this is the only time that you smoke). This should keep your start up smoke to a minimum.
burninghttp://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1
burninghttp://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1
Congratulations on a favorable outcome. I think it's evident that you are doing everything right and that your neighbors are just being hypochondriacs. People are just funny, especially when it comes to their air. Don't do anything to irritate them and maybe they will go away. We can only hope!
I have a funny story about indoor air quality you all might enjoy. A while back, I was working as a plant engineer for a small electronics manufacturer near here. We had a contract to manufacture a circuit board for a military contract that required us to use a kind of flux that can only be cleaned with a strong solvent. Ironic that everybody else had gone over to a flux that was water washable, but our government was forcing us to use trichloroethane for their stuff. Anyway, the board was so large that it was overwhelming the ability of our vapor degreaser to contain all the fumes and I started to notice about a 5 gallon loss of solvent a week. At the same time, some of our more "sensitive" individuals started to get headaches and combined with the smell of the different flux, started to pass out! The flux itself was largely driven off in the soldering process and was exhausted from the building. TCE (the solvent) is considered odorless, but is hardly innocent. It quickly escalated to the point of mass hysteria and people started passing out at the mere sight of the boards. I refined the cleaning process to minimize the loss of solvent, enclosed the degreaser and exhausted the remainder outside. Problem solved? NOT! People were still passing out! We hired an industrial hygienist to look over the situation and he determined that we had solved the problem, but had to cure the symptoms.
His solution was to start some kind of project that would make people think we were doing something else to correct the problem. I suggested installing some fresh air ventilators on the roof to help pressurize the building, but we were concerned that this wouldn't be visible enough. I made sure people were going to notice! I ordered up the fans, left them in the loading dock for a few days for people to trip over, and installed them on the roof by cutting off the existing air intake with a Sawzall and mounting it all up. Anyone who has ever used a reciprocating saw on ductwork will tell you it's noisey. The people in the office even knew what was going on! After a few days, I had people commenting to me how much better they felt and how much fresher the air seemed. I didn't have the heart to tell them that the electrician hadn't gotten there yet to wire them up!
Still makes me laugh.
The hygienist determined that the entire problem was started when the QC guys made everyone get rid of their radios. Apparently, the defects went up when the ladies were listening to their soap operas on the TV channels in the afternoon. Boredom set in and they began to play "What's that smell?". I swear they were good at it, though. They could smell a lighting ballast going bad about a day before it actually happened! Oh, well...
I have a funny story about indoor air quality you all might enjoy. A while back, I was working as a plant engineer for a small electronics manufacturer near here. We had a contract to manufacture a circuit board for a military contract that required us to use a kind of flux that can only be cleaned with a strong solvent. Ironic that everybody else had gone over to a flux that was water washable, but our government was forcing us to use trichloroethane for their stuff. Anyway, the board was so large that it was overwhelming the ability of our vapor degreaser to contain all the fumes and I started to notice about a 5 gallon loss of solvent a week. At the same time, some of our more "sensitive" individuals started to get headaches and combined with the smell of the different flux, started to pass out! The flux itself was largely driven off in the soldering process and was exhausted from the building. TCE (the solvent) is considered odorless, but is hardly innocent. It quickly escalated to the point of mass hysteria and people started passing out at the mere sight of the boards. I refined the cleaning process to minimize the loss of solvent, enclosed the degreaser and exhausted the remainder outside. Problem solved? NOT! People were still passing out! We hired an industrial hygienist to look over the situation and he determined that we had solved the problem, but had to cure the symptoms.
His solution was to start some kind of project that would make people think we were doing something else to correct the problem. I suggested installing some fresh air ventilators on the roof to help pressurize the building, but we were concerned that this wouldn't be visible enough. I made sure people were going to notice! I ordered up the fans, left them in the loading dock for a few days for people to trip over, and installed them on the roof by cutting off the existing air intake with a Sawzall and mounting it all up. Anyone who has ever used a reciprocating saw on ductwork will tell you it's noisey. The people in the office even knew what was going on! After a few days, I had people commenting to me how much better they felt and how much fresher the air seemed. I didn't have the heart to tell them that the electrician hadn't gotten there yet to wire them up!
Still makes me laugh.
The hygienist determined that the entire problem was started when the QC guys made everyone get rid of their radios. Apparently, the defects went up when the ladies were listening to their soap operas on the TV channels in the afternoon. Boredom set in and they began to play "What's that smell?". I swear they were good at it, though. They could smell a lighting ballast going bad about a day before it actually happened! Oh, well...
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